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SoonerAviator

SoonerAviator

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SoonerAviator
Anyone bought a home PC lately? The ol’ Dell Precision 390 (intel Core 2 Duo, 1.86GHz, 4GB ram) is on it’s last legs after 8+ years, so I need to upgrade to something newer.

I looked at building a mid-tier unit, but I don’t think I can come out ahead of the major brands by buying the components anymore. Seems like you’d have to be building a $1,200+ Gaming PC to beat the Dell/HP/ASUS of the industry.

I don’t do anything processor-intensive like gaming or rendering video. At most I may fire up FSX/X-Plane every few months, but that’s about it. The majority of the use web browsing and storing media files. I figured an i5, SSD/HHD combo with Win 10 ought to hold its own for another 6-8yrs.

So anyone have a brand/model they’ve been happy with? (Mac is a no-go)


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Newegg.com
Refurb. I've bought ~50 in the last 8 months.
200-300 dollar range. Very pleased
 
No specific brand (parts is parts these days), but a few spec items you'll want to check off:
  • i3 or greater, Skylake or greater (6000/7000/8000 series)
  • M.2 NVME SSD (way faster than a SATA SSD)
  • Chipset that doesn't have a 1 in the right-most non-zero digit (i.e. H110 chipset)
  • Don't bother with Optane. It just takes up the spot that could have the NVME SSD.
 
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The new AMD Ryzen series cpus are on par with Intel and may be had at a lower cost. I’d definitely consider them.
 
cowman said:
The new AMD Ryzen series cpus are on par with Intel and may be had at a lower cost. I’d definitely consider them.
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Well, if you count Intel’s hardware security flaw, they’re better. :)

And no, Intel hasn’t even released microcode for the one flaw in two months since these things were found and published.

:)
 
I've been pretty happy with HP's computers that they market to businesses. They're not very different from the consumer models hardware-wise, but they tend to come with little or no crapware on them and have longer warranties and better support if you ever need it. Or at least they did. It's been a few years since I bought this one, and these things do change.

I also suspect that any manufacturer's business-class line follows a similar roadmap. They cost a little more mainly because the manufacturer isn't being "subsidized" by all the pre-installed crapware and because they typically have longer warranties, not because they're all that different hardware-wise.

Rich
 
I've had pretty good luck with HP computers in the past. I've owned two HP desktops (one WinXP, one Windows Vista) in the past and never had any issues, they each lasted about 6-7 years before they lost functionality due to obsolescence. I've had the Dell for about 4-5yrs, but it was a 4+yr old used computer I refurbished, so it's running up against the same obsolescence issues.
 
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SixPapaCharlie said:
Newegg.com
Refurb. I've bought ~50 in the last 8 months.
200-300 dollar range. Very pleased
Click to expand...

You know, I don't know why I never consider purchasing refurbs online. I'm using a computer I refurbished currently, so I don't think it's out of the question. I normally use Newegg for component purchases, so I'll have to check their refurb towers.
 
asicer said:
No specific brand (parts is parts these days), but a few spec items you'll want to check off:
  • i3 or greater, Skylake or greater (6000/7000/8000 series)
  • M.2 NVME SSD (way faster than a SATA SSD)
  • Chipset that doesn't have a 1 in the right-most non-zero digit (i.e. H110 chipset)
  • Don't bother with Optane. It just takes up the spot that could have the NVME SSD.
Click to expand...

I always get a little lost when looking at processors. I didn't know if it was worth it to go i5 Kaby Lake 7-series model vs the i3 7-series. I've never owned any of the AMD units, but am certainly not opposed to them. The Ryzen 5/7 seems to have an excellent reputation so far. In all honesty, I'm sure it won't make any noticeable difference if I go i3 vs i5/Ryzen5, I always try to not go completely cheap in order to fend off that obsolescence another year or two.
 
SoonerAviator said:
You know, I don't know why I never consider purchasing refurbs online. I'm using a computer I refurbished currently, so I don't think it's out of the question. I normally use Newegg for component purchases, so I'll have to check their refurb towers.
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Always get the box that can handle minimum 16 GB but don't pay for the extra memory. You can buy memory and install it yourself much cheaper. I use Crucial.com to spec out the memory/SSD/disk config for upgrade & add-on but there are other reputable companies out there, too.

BTW, I bought my HP about 10 years ago, running Win7. My only complaint is limited to 8 GB memory. Rock solid. Same for my HP 6P printer which is over 20 yrs old and still runs great. I spent $8 a few years ago to replace the rubber roller on the exit side of the printer.
 
murphey said:
Always get the box that can handle minimum 16 GB but don't pay for the extra memory. You can buy memory and install it yourself much cheaper. I use Crucial.com to spec out the memory/SSD/disk config for upgrade & add-on but there are other reputable companies out there, too.
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Agreed. I added 16GB of DDR2 to the current Dell when I refurbed it years ago. Most of them in the price range I've been looking at with i5/R5 processors seem to come with 8GB DDR3, but I'd normally prefer 16GB.
 
SoonerAviator said:
I always get a little lost when looking at processors. I didn't know if it was worth it to go i5 Kaby Lake 7-series model vs the i3 7-series. I've never owned any of the AMD units, but am certainly not opposed to them. The Ryzen 5/7 seems to have an excellent reputation so far. In all honesty, I'm sure it won't make any noticeable difference if I go i3 vs i5/Ryzen5, I always try to not go completely cheap in order to fend off that obsolescence another year or two.
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If you're not doing processor-intensive work, it's doubtful you'll notice any difference between any of the processors you mentioned. Better to invest in an SSD and extra RAM than upgrade to the i7 or r7. You'll get more bang for your buck.

I have no direct experience with the Ryzen series but have heard great things about them from people I trust. Having no experience with them, however, I still tend to recommend a recent Intel i5 for people who mainly browse the Web and run SDA. The i5 line is a herd of workhorses. But I also recommend making sure the mobo can support a recent (and decent) i7 just in case you find yourself needing that upgrade in the future.

When I bought this PC it had an i5, 8GB of RAM, and a HDD. That was fine for what I was doing. But I then found myself having to frequently edit videos, so I upgraded to an i7, 32GB of RAM, and an SSD. Together they cost about what I paid for the computer. But they still cost less than what I would have paid for a new computer with those specs.

Rich
 
RJM62 said:
If you're not doing processor-intensive work, it's doubtful you'll notice any difference between any of the processors you mentioned. Better to invest in an SSD and extra RAM than upgrade to the i7 or r7. You'll get more bang for your buck.

I have no direct experience with the Ryzen series but have heard great things about them from people I trust. Having no experience with them, however, I still tend to recommend a recent Intel i5 for people who mainly browse the Web and run SDA. The i5 line is a herd of workhorses. But I also recommend making sure the mobo can support a recent (and decent) i7 just in case you find yourself needing that upgrade in the future.

When I bought this PC it had an i5, 8GB of RAM, and a HDD. That was fine for what I was doing. But I then found myself having to frequently edit videos, so I upgraded to an i7, 32GB of RAM, and an SSD. Together they cost about what I paid for the computer. But they still cost less than what I would have paid for a new computer with those specs.

Rich
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Just be careful with SSD drives. The new ones are better, but they do have a limit on how many writes you can do on the chip. A lot of higher end computers have both the SSD drive and a disk drive. People put many of the apps on the SSD then put the writable data on the disk drive. Like pics, videos, docs and things like that.
 
We mostly recommend Dell Optiplexs for clients, but I saw Costco has a Dell XPS with i7, 16GB Ram, 2GB video, 1TB drive, 7 USB (incl type C), AC wifi..... $699 includes 2 year warranty and shipping and handling. This would be a good, cheap, home system or business workstation for those who want to do it on the cheap.
 
bgmac said:
Just be careful with SSD drives. The new ones are better, but they do have a limit on how many writes you can do on the chip. A lot of higher end computers have both the SSD drive and a disk drive. People put many of the apps on the SSD then put the writable data on the disk drive. Like pics, videos, docs and things like that.
Click to expand...

Yeah, any kind of flash media has to be considered consumable. Depending on the project, I may store its data on the SSD or on one of the HDD drives.

Rich
 
bgmac said:
Just be careful with SSD drives. The new ones are better, but they do have a limit on how many writes you can do on the chip. A lot of higher end computers have both the SSD drive and a disk drive. People put many of the apps on the SSD then put the writable data on the disk drive. Like pics, videos, docs and things like that.
Click to expand...
I think the write cycle concerns are overstated. Specs tend to underrate and most people will obsolete the drive before it becomes a concern, IMHO.

That said, I run both SSD and HDD but mainly because I'm a cheapskate.
 
bgmac said:
Just be careful with SSD drives. The new ones are better, but they do have a limit on how many writes you can do on the chip. A lot of higher end computers have both the SSD drive and a disk drive. People put many of the apps on the SSD then put the writable data on the disk drive. Like pics, videos, docs and things like that.
Click to expand...

Exactly what I'm looking to do. Run the OS/programs on the SSD, keep all of the music/videos/pics on an HDD. I also have a 1TB external HDD currently that I'll probably try and use as a backup to the internal HDD, so that I won't lose any files in the event the internal HDD dies. I read up on Win 10 and it seems it only uses about 20GB on a fairly clean install. So an SSD with 250GB should be more than enough space for the OS and any programs I'd be running. I could probably even get by with 128GB SSD, but the cost difference to go up to a 250/256GB unit is relatively small.
 
bgmac said:
Just be careful with SSD drives. The new ones are better, but they do have a limit on how many writes you can do on the chip. A lot of higher end computers have both the SSD drive and a disk drive. People put many of the apps on the SSD then put the writable data on the disk drive. Like pics, videos, docs and things like that.
Click to expand...

V-NAND technology in both chip fab yields and quality are so good, Samsung’s warranty for their pro models is now at 10 years, I believe. Consumer is way up there too, and while when they started I’m pretty sure consumer models were just pro chips that didn’t meet spec so they’d use the portion of the ship that passed QA; that was back in their low volume days. And I bet the consumer chips are coming right out of the same fab lines as the pro chips.

So the EVO line is probably just fine. Better than its warranty perhaps.

Good backups as always — first.

But depending on type of chip technology you buy, most people with average use will need a new computer because of OS and Application bloat, before the SSD fails. Especially if proper over-provisioning is done so the on board controller chip has something to work with for load leveling of the cells, and proper cache settings are selected.

Samsung has a tool that can be downloaded to do all of that in a mouse click or three. The so called, “Samsung Magician” application.
 
CT4ME said:
We mostly recommend Dell Optiplexs for clients, but I saw Costco has a Dell XPS with i7, 16GB Ram, 2GB video, 1TB drive, 7 USB (incl type C), AC wifi..... $699 includes 2 year warranty and shipping and handling. This would be a good, cheap, home system or business workstation for those who want to do it on the cheap.
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I was using the entry-level Dell 8910 XPS line as kind of a benchmark on what I would custom-build, but as I mentioned, it's hard to build anything that can match it for the same price they are selling it at. $700 is what it would cost me in components from Newegg just to buy what Dell already made.
 
SoonerAviator said:
$700 is what it would cost me in components from Newegg just to buy what Dell already made.
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Yeah, these days you build because you want to. The economics aren't what they used to be. Plus, with the emphasis on gaming components it's becoming increasingly difficult to build a nice machine without it looking like something owned by a 12 year old Asian kid. ;)
 
kayoh190 said:
Yeah, these days you build because you want to. The economics aren't what they used to be. Plus, with the emphasis on gaming components it's becoming increasingly difficult to build a nice machine without it looking like something owned by a 12 year old Asian kid. ;)
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Good luck grabbing any higher end GPUs at a reasonable price, I'm looking at you bitcoin miners!
 
Another view: I haven't had a "home PC" for maybe 20 years. I've just had a string of laptops and convertible tablets with docks at home, at work, and at the lake home. Each place has a hard-wired ethernet to the dock, good monitor, good KB, and good mouse. I carry the computer on trips and use it stand-alone from time to time, but 90% or more of its use is when docked. I also carry it upstairs from my home office every evening and, in the morning, read various news sites while sitting in my recliner with morning coffee. Docking and undocking takes literally a few seconds.

This way all my "stuff" is with me and there is only one setup to worry about. Currently I have a Microsoft Surface III with 8gig and a 256gig SSD. At home, for backup and media storage, I have a Synology dual-drive hot swap NAS configured as 1tb RAID 1.

My wife has a Dell XPS 13 that she doesn't even bother to dock. Each home just has a dongle with USB for her mouse and RJ-45 to connect to our home & lake networks. The little chicklet keyboard would drive me nuts, but she is used to it and loves the small size of the machine.
 
airdale said:
Another view: I haven't had a "home PC" for maybe 20 years. I've just had a string of laptops and convertible tablets with docks at home, at work, and at the lake home.
Click to expand...

Definitely a good way to go if you don't need a hefty GPU or a ton of cores. My main machine is a laptop, with the desktop only there to sate my nerdier impulses.
 
kayoh190 said:
Definitely a good way to go if you don't need a hefty GPU or a ton of cores. My main machine is a laptop, with the desktop only there to sate my nerdier impulses.
Click to expand...
I was going off the original post, where the OP makes it pretty clear that he doesn't need any heavy lifting done. That said, my i5 Surface Pro 3 machine is no slouch & I say that being a computer designer/programmer by trade.
 
airdale said:
Another view: I haven't had a "home PC" for maybe 20 years. I've just had a string of laptops and convertible tablets with docks at home, at work, and at the lake home. Each place has a hard-wired ethernet to the dock, good monitor, good KB, and good mouse. I carry the computer on trips and use it stand-alone from time to time, but 90% or more of its use is when docked. I also carry it upstairs from my home office every evening and, in the morning, read various news sites while sitting in my recliner with morning coffee. Docking and undocking takes literally a few seconds.

This way all my "stuff" is with me and there is only one setup to worry about. Currently I have a Microsoft Surface III with 8gig and a 256gig SSD. At home, for backup and media storage, I have a Synology dual-drive hot swap NAS configured as 1tb RAID 1.

My wife has a Dell XPS 13 that she doesn't even bother to dock. Each home just has a dongle with USB for her mouse and RJ-45 to connect to our home & lake networks. The little chicklet keyboard would drive me nuts, but she is used to it and loves the small size of the machine.
Click to expand...

I run a dual computer/dual monitor setup at home. The home PC is connected to the dual monitors, as-is the docking station for my work laptop. That way, all I have to do is more the USB-dongle for the mouse/keyboard over and I have identical setups using the same equipment. We don't use the "Home PC" too much, so it doesn't need to be particularly robust, but I do prefer a dual monitor setup. Since the wife and I both have tablets, and I have my work laptop, we don't need the PC to be portable. I have considered using an NAS setup to store all of the media/personal files, but I've never looked into what it takes to set one up and make it reliable.

airdale said:
I was going off the original post, where the OP makes it pretty clear that he doesn't need any heavy lifting done. That said, my i5 Surface Pro 3 machine is no slouch & I say that being a computer designer/programmer by trade.
Click to expand...

I looked at the SP3/4, but the cost was about the same as going with a new desktop tower, so I wrote it off.
 
airdale said:
I was going off the original post, where the OP makes it pretty clear that he doesn't need any heavy lifting done. That said, my i5 Surface Pro 3 machine is no slouch & I say that being a computer designer/programmer by trade.
Click to expand...

Flight sims are kinda “heavy lifting” if you don’t want them to suck.
 
SoonerAviator said:
... I have considered using an NAS setup to store all of the media/personal files, but I've never looked into what it takes to set one up and make it reliable.
Click to expand...
Synology is really plug and play with great software. I think I have about $400 in my setup and it has been running for 4 1/2 years now without a hiccup. I bought a used diskless box on eBay and put a pair of new drives in it. Synology model numbers are like "DS212+" where the first number is the # of disks (2), the next two numbers are the model year (2012) and various suffixes denote speed (+) or other features. Some are hot-swap and some are not; I don't know whether that is coded in the suffix or not.

SoonerAviator said:
I looked at the SP3/4, but the cost was about the same as going with a new desktop tower, so I wrote it off.
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Different strokes for different folks. If that was my cost tradeoff I'd buy the tablet without hesitation.
 
Ref AMD - for the first time ever, I have an AMD chip, a Ryzen 5 1600. It's fast, works fine and was half the price of a similar performance i7. The only bad thing I can say about it is that it reminds me of how bad my graphics card is (reusing an old GeForce 650).

The AMD chip, 16 GB ram and the old 650 graphics card runs Xplane 11 with no issues. It also runs Overwatch without issues. But I still really want a 1070 or 1080 graphics card.
 
kayoh190 said:
Yeah, these days you build because you want to. The economics aren't what they used to be. Plus, with the emphasis on gaming components it's becoming increasingly difficult to build a nice machine without it looking like something owned by a 12 year old Asian kid. ;)
Click to expand...
Lol yeah I ran into that issue during my searches as well. Almost every PC tower at that range seems to resort to transformer-looking designs with ambient lighting, lol. I don't need my office lit up like the Strip in Vegas.
 
airdale said:
Synology is really plug and play with great software. I think I have about $400 in my setup and it has been running for 4 1/2 years now without a hiccup. I bought a used diskless box on eBay and put a pair of new drives in it. Synology model numbers are like "DS212+" where the first number is the # of disks (2), the next two numbers are the model year (2012) and various suffixes denote speed (+) or other features. Some are hot-swap and some are not; I don't know whether that is coded in the suffix or not.

Different strokes for different folks. If that was my cost tradeoff I'd buy the tablet without hesitation.
Click to expand...

I like the idea of the NAS. The Synology appears to be around $150, then 2 HDD's will run another $250+ depending on storage size and brand. You could feasibly get a 2TB Raid 0 or 1TB Raid 1 setup going for $400. The only problem is that would only solve my storage issue, but I'd still need a new computer capable of running XPlane 11 or similar software.
 
Thread update. Decided to drop into the local computer store (Wholesale Computer Supply) just to see what they had. Turns out they have some decent deals, the one below is on par with the $799 Dell XTS entry-level models. Anyone see any faults with the setup below?

Intel 4th Gen i5 processor
256GB SSD
500GB HDD
8GB Ram
GeForce GT520 Video Card - 2GB
Windows 10 Home
USB 3.0/2.0 ports
$499
 
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I was at a trade show today and the booth goodies include a stick-on window slide for your computer camera. Mine is now blocked.
 
SoonerAviator said:
Thread update. Decided to drop into the local computer store (Wholesale Computer Supply) just to see what they had. Turns out they have some decent deals, the one below is on par with the $799 Dell XTS entry-level models. Anyone see any faults with the setup below?

Intel i5 processor
256GB SSD
500GB HDD
8GB Ram
Radeon RX460 Video Card
Windows 10 Home
USB 3.0/2.0 ports
$499
Click to expand...
What series/generation i5? What chipset? Is the SSD AHCI (SATA) or NVME?
 
MAC's are solid machines, but are priced higher than a PC machine with the same (or similar) components. The OS is nice, but I'm not a fan.
I've been running a Referb HP for... 5 or 6 years. I ran my refurb HP netbook for 12 years (Win XP, Ubuntu, Lubuntu, Chromium) - as performance degraded, I switched to lighter OS. It also had RAM upgrade, two HDD, on SSD, two battery packs, and two keyboards.

I think I will replace the Net book with one of these: [LINK]
 
Tom-D said:
IMHO that is a mistake.
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How so? I don’t own any other Mac products, and only use an iPhone for work because it’s provided and is my only option. I get frustrated with it all the time. My current Dell has worked fine for a decade, at half the price of a Mac. There’s just no valid reason for me to spend a lot more for a Mac.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
With the SSD, I assume you are saying "I want it fast!".... if so, why get an i5? For that matter why not 12 or 16GB of RAM?

Sorry, I'm not a fan of "Frankenstein Boxes".... (wait for booing to subside).... almost none of my geek buddies build their own boxes any more either. I personally want a box that has a good warranty and service. I want to know each and every part is fully compatible with the other parts.

The main difference between "Premium" business computers and consumer computers is consistency, and conservative design. I'm told each Dell Optiplex that rolls off the line strives to have the exact same components as the previous or next 10,000 units. The design and build has been thoroughly tested and will perform in a very predictable manner. They are designed to operate well within the envelope of safety... whereas lesser designs sometimes operate near the rough edges of stability. The consumer units are more interested in production volume and will use whatever parts they can to fill the boxes. Think of Lucy in the candy production line. Frankenstein boxes are even worse... each one is usually a bunch of parts cobbled together, never to be repeated again. I'm not saying they won't work... but I want something more than "likely to work"

In 35 years I've built a bunch of boxes (used to sell them) and seen a bunch of crap out there. Almost every one that "was a good deal" or "built by a genius who KNOWS how to build them" turned out to be a POS. These days, except in special cases, it just doesn't pay to get a "white box". YMMV
 
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