Home and Auto Insurance

[denverpilot]

I hate these companies. Really I do. Such a pain in the butt to get apples to apples quotes.

But anyway. My current auto company decided to raise my rates on the 17 year old Subaru to $1500 a year with NO collision or comprehensive.

Yeah, the car is worth $3000. Maybe $3500.

Bye. I’m shopping you.

Always amazed at the variability of the rates between companies when you finally DO get some sort of apples to apples numbers. All over the freaking place.

And no. I don’t qualify for USAA so don’t mention it. I wish.

So anyway. After ten different quotes I get a ridiculously low quote from one company who appears to want new business. That’s the only thing I can chalk it up to. They’re a national brand without a lot of multimillion dollar advertising on TV and we have used them before in the past with zero problems.

So. I politely tell my agent three days ago that she has until 9PM tonight to call me back on this or I’m jumping. She sends me an email saying she will “call me tomorrow”. I reply with “sorry, 9PM deadline”.

I think she got herself fired. I tried to be nice. But one policy renews on Sunday and I’m up against a deadline and multiple policy discounts are worth having so...

Waiting to hear back from the low quote guy if he got the stupid final underwriting check done. He works until 9.

I would have done ALL of this online if I could have. But noooo. The last company misreported to the national pain in the butt database that they had not closed a claim in April 2015 and everyone needed proof it was closed and for how much. $549 by the way. Got that crap memorized by now.

Also all those companies websites refuse to quote five vehicles. They hit four and then say “you have to call us”. I don’t WANT to call you, you idiots. That’s why I spent half an hour entering crap into your website! Gah.

A FEW of them could pick up where I left off in the website. Those that couldn’t were immediately dismissed as “don’t know how to freaking use technology”.

One sent me a quote AND a quote number and by the next day when I went to pull it back up and look at some details it was gone. Called them and they said “Oh that happens all the time. Should I take your information again?” Oh hell no. You’re fired before you even get a chance to start.

Another company and even one of the good ones we might go with had a list of names associated with our home address somehow and asked if any of those other people lived there. Now one name was my dad and that I get, but the others? No freaking clue. No! They don’t live here and my wife and I don’t have kids. Whatever BS is in your database, fix it. LOL.

I truly hate this crap. It should be easier. But for a couple thousand bucks I’ll put up with these bad IT Systems and even dumber questions. I guess.

 

[TCABM]

Unfortunately, the reason it’s apples to oranges is that there can be so many options packaged together to subsidize unprofitable products in the package. Then, realize most insurers are publicly held companies and can issue stock to raise capital while being a loss leader.

There is a market developing in the auto insurance space for a vanilla, no frills product that satisfies the state minimums while meeting the profit requirement necessary to stay in business. When that nut gets cracked, there won’t be much of a race to the bottom, because the product will be priced at the bare minimum to issue and service the policy during the period it’s in effect.

 

[RJM62]

The only other company I ever had that was as good as the one I'm not allowed to mention was Amica Mutual. They're kind of pricey, though. I've also heard good things about Erie, Farmers, and Electric.

Electric is extremely picky about new customers. They used to only accept GE employees. Now they will accept applications from anyone, but apparently they turn down more applicants than they accept. In the unlikely event that they accept you, it's apparently like hitting the insurance lottery. People I know who have them speak about Electric Insurance almost reverentially.

Rich

 

[denverpilot]

Unfortunately, the reason it’s apples to oranges is that there can be so many options packaged together to subsidize unprofitable products in the package. Then, realize most insurers are publicly held companies and can issue stock to raise capital while being a loss leader.

There is a market developing in the auto insurance space for a vanilla, no frills product that satisfies the state minimums while meeting the profit requirement necessary to stay in business. When that nut gets cracked, there won’t be much of a race to the bottom, because the product will be priced at the bare minimum to issue and service the policy during the period it’s in effect.

That's the thing... I'm not interested in State minimums at all. I'm willing to pay for quite a bit of liability coverage, and I'm even willing to move my umbrella policy to whoever wins this game to make SURE I'm covered for liability. In other words, I'm going to happily pay someone REAL money for this coverage... but their silly IT systems are built for that bottom dollar user, not someone trying to move house, cars, and an umbrella all at once. And every quote took at LEAST a half an hour on the phone to do... 5 hours of work is STILL worth a couple grand in savings... but man... it sucks... I hate spending five hours on the phone like that. PLUS... if the current company hadn't kept slowly jacking up rates because they know I'm "loyal"... well, anyway... I know that game, and I'm not playing.

The only other company I ever had that was as good as the one I'm not allowed to mention was Amica Mutual. They're kind of pricey, though. I've also heard good things about Erie, Farmers, and Electric.

Electric is extremely picky about new customers. They used to only accept GE employees. Now they will accept applications from anyone, but apparently they turn down more applicants than they accept. In the unlikely event that they accept you, it's apparently like hitting the insurance lottery. People I know who have them speak about Electric Insurance almost reverentially.

Hadn't even heard of Electric, but we've had Amica in the past, and they're solidly in the running in this round of shopping, and even have significantly lower rates than our current insurer after our stuff has slowly crept higher over only four years.

On the current company, the Subaru started off at like $600 a year, and has slowly climbed to a renewal of almost $1500 this year. That's beyond crazy. I won't pay it for a $3000 car. No way.

I will admit, even with slightly higher rates, Amica was ALWAYS the easiest to deal with and had the best customer service and online systems... they even beat most of the other companies to having a USABLE App for smartphones for doing stuff like taking photos at an accident scene and gathering the right information from the other driver... I was always impressed with that. We didn't leave them willingly... after a bad couple of years of Karen getting hit by other people (no-fault on her...) they didn't cancel us, but they informed us they wouldn't renew... so it's not a black mark for a cancellation on your record, and they give you plenty of time to do it.

That non-renewal was mentioned to them this time, and they said enough time has passed on those pay-outs, they don't care... they COULD have had me as a customer for the intervening years, but they're really conservative and computer-driven (which is what makes their front end tech so good, but also bites them square in the butt on the back end in cases like ours) and made some bucks... but we might go back to them. The only downside with them is I *know* if we have real claims... they'll drop us like a hot potato again... their silly computers won't let them do anything else... those letters are auto-generated about six months before renewal...

We're ALL bombarded with "switch to us today!" commercials from all the big ones, and then if you actually try to go DO it, it's a huge PITA... they all know this... this is how they get and keep customers FOR LIFE who simply won't deal with five hours of horse-crap...

Oh, and the other fun... my current umbrella actually DOES cover aviation... wasn't expecting that AT ALL, but it was done before I was a CFI... and I'll lose it... but I never expected it anyway... it was one of those things where my agent said, "I can run that by underwriting" and they wanted details of hours per year, ratings, blah blah blah... that's all fine and good... it was a nice perk while I had it... but I fully expect aviation underwriting to be a separate policy these days... nobody likes us little airplane drivers...

What it CAUSED was this... a couple of the new companies found aviation related wording in that secret database of insurance that they all share and that freaked them the hell out... "So does your umbrella cover aviation?!?! Because ours won't! ZOMG!!! BBQ!!!! ARRRRRGHHHHH!!!"

"Yes, it does. And no, I don't need yours to. I understand most companies WILL NOT COVER aviation on umbrellas and I'm FINE with that... but I do want my umbrella with the same company as the house and cars."

"Hmmm okay... let me put some notes in here for underwriting..."

Just HAVING that stupid perk at the last company has now turned out to be a complete and utter PITA in getting OTHER umbrellas quoted... GRRRRRRRRRR!!!

I HATE DATABASES AND STUPID PEOPLE WRITING POLICY LIKE THE COMPUTER IS IN CHARGE AND NOT THE HUMANS!!!!!!!

There, got that out of my system. Hahaha... lordy.

 

[ColoPilot]

Nate, you should try a broker. The one I use has about a dozen companies he uses and does all the shopping around for me. Much less work for me, and if my company raises rates next year the broket shops my policy around again.

 

[denverpilot]

By the way... ONE company to quote the homeowners wanted to know HOW MANY CEILING FANS WE HAVE...

Anyone want to explain THAT to me?! That was a new one on me...

"Uhh, three."
"Okay, thanks..."

No explanation or anything, just one of that company's pet-peeves?!?!

So freaking strange.

Another company... the same one that lost the quotes in their system even though it handed out quote numbers... didn't do homeowners themselves and had to "send your call to a partner who will talk to you about that, but if you do use them we will give a multi-line discount!"... Ummm, okay, I'm already completely un-impressed, but whatever... already 20 minutes into this, so in for a penny...

Get to the agent for the home stuff, answer a couple of questions and then they ask some build/construction stuff about the house. I tell them.

"Ohhh... I can't do Google Street View to confirm this on your house!"

"Well, no... we live in the freaking boonies, and I doubt the Google car has been by much... thank goodness... it'd probably drive itself into a ditch on the dirt road..."

"Ohhh, okay, well, you'll need someone to come out and look at your house..."

"Can I send you a photo? You can see Google Earth and tell it's the same house and same lot and layout..."

"No... they'll need to come out..."

"Okay, when can we schedule that?"

"OH! We can't schedule that here. But I can give you the numbers of your closest agents! Let's see... it looks like there's a LOT of them in someplace called 'Parker, Colorado'?"

"Yeah, that's about 25 to 30 miles west of us in the city, depending on which county road you take."

"Okay, well, here's their phone numbers, are you ready?"

"You mean you can't transfer me to them?"

"No, we can't do that..."

Alriiiiighty then... pretended I copied down the phone numbers and hung up. Another half hour wasted... go away, you're WASTING MY TIME YOU FREAKING MORONS.

 

[ColoPilot]

The state minimum for car insurance is only $15, 000 for property damage in Colorado. It doesn't take much damage to exceed the minimum. Rear end a Tesla and you're well over that. If they raise it though, it will just mean more people without insurance at all.

 

[denverpilot]

The state minimum for car insurance is only $15, 000 for property damage in Colorado. It doesn't take much damage to exceed the minimum. Rear end a Tesla and you're well over that. If they raise it though, it will just mean more people without insurance at all.

Rear end a Corolla and you're over that. Hahaha... Yeah, Colorado's minimums are a complete joke...

And frankly, they keep lowering them trying to get people to insure, instead of coming up with a way to arrest them when they're uninsured.

In rankings of UN-insured motorists we are sixth, and lord only knows how many UNDER-insured we have.

I don't want to find out, so I pay out the nose for under and un-insured motorist coverage and want to beat the regulators upside the head with a STICK... they're just encouraging this crap around here.

Friends in Australia point out that insurance companies report insurance MONTHLY to the cops, and anyone with no insurance, their PLATES are tagged for being pulled over and the car impounded. And in most areas there they've added the plate readers to the patrol cars, so in general... this is all automated. Don't buy insurance? That cruiser's scanner will see your plate, and you'll be walking home tonight, with a hefty fine to boot.

Not a huge fan of "Big Brother" sorts of tech like that, and I'm SURE our government here would SURELY find a way to completely screw that up, including privacy and other database/security issues with such a system... but in a way, that sure sounds nicer than paying an additional 30% or more to cover CRIMINALS on MY insurance.

 

[ColoPilot]

I received a speeding ticket in Denver county about 10 years ago and had to go to court. Most of the cases were no insurance or no license. The magistrate said if you have a license or insurance now they would dismiss the ticket (even if they didn't have it when they got the ticket). Most people payed the fine and drove home.

 

[tlglenn]

By the way... ONE company to quote the homeowners wanted to know HOW MANY CEILING FANS WE HAVE...

Hmm, I once had a ceiling fan unexpectedly fall down.

 

[denverpilot]

I received a speeding ticket in Denver county about 10 years ago and had to go to court. Most of the cases were no insurance or no license. The magistrate said if you have a license or insurance now they would dismiss the ticket (even if they didn't have it when they got the ticket). Most people payed the fine and drove home.

Oh, I'm sure this will P someone off... but... "Sanctuary City"... lots of plates on pickup trucks from Mexico, and guess which county tops the list for uninsured motorists... Yeah, I said it. It's fact.

 

[denverpilot]

Hmm, I once had a ceiling fan unexpectedly fall down.

ROFL... that must be it!

I figured it's from idiots putting kids on their shoulders and walking into them, but who knows... see that a bunch of times...

 

[Clark1961]

Oh, I'm sure this will P someone off... but... "Sanctuary City"... lots of plates on pickup trucks from Mexico, and guess which county tops the list for uninsured motorists... Yeah, I said it. It's fact.

Only 2 bumper stickers are needed in Denver. One sez “I run red lights” and the other sez “I’m uninsured”

 

[RJM62]

Because of the time of my service and gradual changes in USAA eligibility requirements, I wasn't able to join until 2009. Prior to then, I learned a lot about insurance companies' peculiar actuarial considerations. Some hate pets. Others hate space heaters. Still others hate candles. Others hate fireplaces, wood stoves, firearms, water beds, fish tanks, chainsaws, snow blowers, trampolines, tree houses... You name it, and some insurance company hates it enough that they either won't insure you at all or will jack up your rates because of it. Now we can add ceiling fans to that list.

One would think that the law of averages would be such that risk factors would be uniform across the industry. But apparently that's not the case at all. With the exception of trampolines, which they all seem to hate, there seems to be no consistency to what insurance companies care about.

Rich

 

[denverpilot]

Because of the time of my service and gradual changes in USAA eligibility requirements, I wasn't able to join until 2009. Prior to then, I learned a lot about insurance companies' peculiar actuarial considerations. Some hate pets. Others hate space heaters. Still others hate candles. Others hate fireplaces, wood stoves, firearms, water beds, fish tanks, chainsaws, snow blowers, trampolines, tree houses... You name it, and some insurance company hates it enough that they either won't insure you at all or will jack up your rates because of it. Now we can add ceiling fans to that list.

One would think that the law of averages would be such that risk factors would be uniform across the industry. But apparently that's not the case at all. With the exception of trampolines, which they all seem to hate, there seems to be no consistency to what insurance companies care about.

Rich

Oh man I forgot about the dog questions and the wood stove questions. Haha.

Yes, I have dogs. [No they’re not particularly interested in biting anyone but I also have an 850’ driveway so y’all would have a good case that they shouldn’t have been there...]

Yes I have a pellet stove. [It’s only filled the house once with smoke, and contained itself nicely when the wind blew back down the chimney on a -10F night.]

Muahahaha. No. I didn’t say that. But I thought it!

 

[gkainz]

key words in your rate increase ... "subaru" and/or "Colorado" ... my son got his rate increase for his Subaru as well - and it's with USAA. They said Colorado earned rate increases across the board ... probably directly due to Clark's comment
QFT

Only 2 bumper stickers are needed in Denver. One sez “I run red lights” and the other sez “I’m uninsured”

 

[RJM62]

Oh man I forgot about the dog questions and the wood stove questions. Haha.

Yes, I have dogs. [No they’re not particularly interested in biting anyone but I also have an 850’ driveway so y’all would have a good case that they shouldn’t have been there...]

Yes I have a pellet stove. [It’s only filled the house once with smoke, and contained itself nicely when the wind blew back down the chimney on a -10F night.]

Muahahaha. No. I didn’t say that. But I thought it!

Another thing I recently found out insurance companies are less-than-delighted about is utility trailers, but more with regard to homeowner's / renter's / umbrella policies than auto policies. Apparently the losses due to liability and theft when trailers are parked without being secured against theft are much higher than losses resulting from accidents when they're being used. They're considered "attractive nuisances" in addition to being easy to steal.

The preferred solution to at least the theft problem, I learned, is to secure the trailer to something like a big tree or a building using a chain and a padlock and to use a locking safety pin in the coupler latch. Most people looking to steal a trailer just want to hook it up and drive it away. If they have to work at it at all, they look for an easier target.

Rich

 

[denverpilot]

key words in your rate increase ... "subaru" and/or "Colorado" ... my son got his rate increase for his Subaru as well - and it's with USAA. They said Colorado earned rate increases across the board ... probably directly due to Clark's comment
QFT

My buddy at work just got the hail claim done that happened two days after he bought a brand new Outback. Holy hell... that’s a big number on a two day old car...

Apparently there are no door panels. It’s replace the whole door or fix the dents in place. Most adjusters just throw in the price of replacing all four doors (and with OEM too) and leave the decision whether to repair or replace up to the shop.

Lots of Subies here of course. So every company knows how expensive they are to repair.

As far as “earning” our rate increase — oh yeah, I see those drivers every day on my 80 mile round trip commute. And 80 miles a day doesn’t help my rate either, time under the curve and all that.

But at least SOME insurers “get” that I can’t drive all of the freaking cars at the same time and ask for annual mileage. Others don’t and assume you’re housing twenty illegals in your garage in an illegal apartment, the cars then have to sit outside, and they’re all driving all the vehicles under your insurance. LOL.

The questions about live in servants and help, too... good lord. Numerous companies asked about that. Do that many people have such things? I get that it turns your home into a business insurance-wise and if they don’t have medical insurance they’re going after the homeowner’s policy... but I’m kinda amazed enough people have live-in help that multiple companies ask specifically about it.

“No, the Gimp is only here in the basement occasionally, and not for more than a weekend. We can’t afford to feed him full time.”

 

[RJM62]

My buddy at work just got the hail claim done that happened two days after he bought a brand new Outback. Holy hell... that’s a big number on a two day old car...

Apparently there are no door panels. It’s replace the whole door or fix the dents in place. Most adjusters just throw in the price of replacing all four doors (and with OEM too) and leave the decision whether to repair or replace up to the shop.

Lots of Subies here of course. So every company knows how expensive they are to repair.

As far as “earning” our rate increase — oh yeah, I see those drivers every day on my 80 mile round trip commute. And 80 miles a day doesn’t help my rate either, time under the curve and all that.

But at least SOME insurers “get” that I can’t drive all of the freaking cars at the same time and ask for annual mileage. Others don’t and assume you’re housing twenty illegals in your garage in an illegal apartment, the cars then have to sit outside, and they’re all driving all the vehicles under your insurance. LOL.

The questions about live in servants and help, too... good lord. Numerous companies asked about that. Do that many people have such things? I get that it turns your home into a business insurance-wise and if they don’t have medical insurance they’re going after the homeowner’s policy... but I’m kinda amazed enough people have live-in help that multiple companies ask specifically about it.

“No, the Gimp is only here in the basement occasionally, and not for more than a weekend. We can’t afford to feed him full time.”

I've always had problems with insurance companies for owning more than one car when I was the only licensed driver in the household. They always seemed to think I was insuring them for friends or significant others who had ****ty driving records. Most of the time I was able to talk the rates down on the "extra" cars by convincing the insurance companies that they were just winter rats or other "spare" or specialty vehicles for my own use. A couple of times I had to sign affidavits to that effect.

Nowadays I don't have that problem, especially when there's a significant age difference between the newer car and the beater. Maybe it's geographical. It could just be that owning winter rats is more common in Sparrow Fart than it is in Queens.

Rich

 

[Zeldman]

key words in your rate increase ... "subaru" and/or "Colorado" ... my son got his rate increase for his Subaru as well - and it's with USAA. They said Colorado earned rate increases across the board ... probably directly due to Clark's comment
QFT

I have been with USAA for many years. They are getting harder and harder to deal with for car insurance. Funny that the Subaru insurance is higher than my high dollar diesel 3/4 ton, 4WD pickup. (that never in its life has it been off a paved road.....ok maybe not...)

I just got a mass letter from USAA stating that USAA will no longer auto renew car insurance. I took that as a comment stating we will raise your auto insurance anytime and for any reason we feel like. Which has started me looking at other insurance options.

 

[denverpilot]

Well, my agent at the current company is convinced the offer from the new company is so low-ball that if there’s no catch to it up-front (quoted wrong, etc.) that they’ll be raising rates quickly or they’ll be out of business.

I dunno. So far I haven’t heard back from final underwriting on the new stuff which ticks me off since I started this crap with them days ago. That’ll probably be gotcha number one... they’ll come back with some more asinine questions, or a higher rate, or just say they were lying all along... cough, misunderstood my insurance needs...

But I still think I can’t realistically ignore a half price rate cut on Auto from what’s otherwise a very reputable brand. So I wait.

By the way I do like the new place’s customer service but it’s obvious they have a fleet of nobody’s on the phones hiding the real insurance people. And the real insurance people are backlogged and probably don’t GAF like most tiered support systems automatically create.

You see businesses who run call centers still don’t understand that “I’ve asked and someone else won’t do their job for a couple of days and then they’ll call you back...” generates a ticked off customer every single time. You fix YOUR problem when I call, or you give me an EXACT time it will be fixed by. I can do that for MY customers...

Pet peeve alert. Tiered call Center with no ability to push on Tier 2, 3, 4 or 10. They should be empowered to get you a date and time upon which their company’s work SHALL be done by. No SLA with lower tiers or keeping the customer on line while escalating, means the Call Center can dump a customer off the phone without solving the problem. Not good. Ever.

 

[Ventucky Red]

Hey DP, for what it is worth I have had AAA insurance for my auto (s), boat & trailer, homeowners, and umbrella for about 15 years now... Every other year I shop them just to keep things honest... they are high on one, lower on the other so it all balances out...

IMPO when the metal hit road is when you need to exercise your policy... The few times I have had to do this the customer service was top notch...

No if you want to talk about the other two major companies that start with State and Farmer.. I have a few stories.

 

[RJM62]

I have been with USAA for many years. They are getting harder and harder to deal with for car insurance. Funny that the Subaru insurance is higher than my high dollar diesel 3/4 ton, 4WD pickup. (that never in its life has it been off a paved road.....ok maybe not...)

I just got a mass letter from USAA stating that USAA will no longer auto renew car insurance. I took that as a comment stating we will raise your auto insurance anytime and for any reason we feel like. Which has started me looking at other insurance options.

My car insurance with USAA just went up for the first time in years. It actually had gone down for the past few years preceding this renewal, however, so I'm basically paying what I was three or four years ago, and way less than any other company that was going to save me money when my renewal came due quoted me. Even Geico couldn't beat them. (Not that I would ever insure with Geico again having made that mistake years ago, but I do like to waste their time letting them run quotes.)

I haven't noticed any degradation of customer service at USAA. But I do know other members who say they have. Last month I had to call them several times to review and adjust various coverages that all happen to renew in September, and I was completely satisfied every time. But other members swear that the company's going downhill.

I'm not married to USAA. If the day comes when I no longer feel they're doing right by me, I'll jump ship in a heartbeat, most likely back to Amica Mutual. But so far I have zero complaints about USAA.

Rich

 

[Ghery]

No if you want to talk about the other two major companies that start with State and Farmer.. I have a few stories.

Interesting. I've been with the one that starts with "State" for over 45 years with no problems having claims handled. Luck of the draw?

 

[Tj1376]

Something is going on in Colorado. I work in IT for one of those big insurance companies. Something changed with a Right To Protest law (which is so donkey backwards that only one other state has this setup) in Colorado that has our actuary teams scrambling. I don't know specifics, as I haven't actually been in the handling of insurance in like ten years, but I do know that Colorado law is causing us to scramble, which is probably being reflected in your rate hikes.

Regarding those big names: go look at how Harvey was handled. Find me a small company that put out half the aid of the big names. That's a name I want behind me in a situation like that.

Good luck

TJ


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[asechrest]

I'm in this industry, as some of ya'll know. I'm not naive to the frustrations for the insurance consumer, either, so I'll avoid vehemently defending it. I will give some comments, though, with the caveat that I live in Florida and we are a fairly unique insurance marketplace.

The dude asked about your ceiling fans probably because he was running a "replacement cost estimator" in concert with your homeowner quoting. Most companies require that you insure for 100% of the estimated cost to rebuild, and will provide third-party software for the agent to make that estimate. The software allows very fine detail, right down to the number of ceiling fans, but will typically provide what it feels are average specs based off of the home basics - square footage, age, area, etc. I'm primarily in operations now, but when I was in sales, that's not a level of detail I'd ask during the first conversation. Someone shopping their homeowner insurance policy is often interested in having one primary question answered: "is your quote less expensive, apples-to-apples and per dollar of coverage, than my current policy". So it made the most sense to mirror the current coverage, while keeping in mind your ethical standards and underwriting guidelines of the carrier you're targeting for your client. So if the policy I was trying to beat covered a home for $150k when it was actually worth $300k, I might go ahead and quote at $150k to understand whether my quote was a better price per dollar, and then begin a conversation with the prospective client about how he was grossly underinsured.

I'd definitely recommend exploring a local independent agent. They'll have access to some big-name national carriers, like The Hartford, Travelers, MetLife, Safeco (Liberty Mutual's independent-agency channel's carrier) etc., and can shop your rate between those carriers. They WON'T have access to what are called "captive carriers" - those that employ agents who may sell only their employing carrier's product. So that would be companies like Geico, State Farm, Allstate, etc. I have certainly been handily beat by many of those captive carriers over the years, so even if you settle on a local independent agent, you may opt to explore a few captive carriers every couple years.

In Florida, at least, I'm so used to every company I know of ticking up rates every year (and sometimes multiple times a year), that the idea of rates going DOWN is quite foreign to me. But then again, Tampa and South Florida were the auto insurance fraud capitals of the nation at various times in recent memory. I recall my Progressive rep. describing to me a case that their internal fraud team had recently cracked. Florida is a "no fault" state. Which despite common understanding, means only that we have a coverage on the policy that responds to driver and passenger injuries FIRST, and without regard to fault, up to $10k. Doesn't matter if the other guy hit you, your no fault coverage (PIP) covers your injuries first, before his will. Because of the way the coverage is designed, and before some recent PIP reform measures, it was especially easy to claim injury and get money.

Progressive got a claim for a suspicious accident in a vehicle with many occupants. They were eventually able to obtain security camera footage from a business near the intersection where the accident took place. Rolling the tapes showed a van enter the intersection and stop. The occupants, who filled all seats in the van, then filed out and stood on the sidewalk. A few moments a later another car came into view and t-boned the stationary van. All the occupants climbed back in the van, and then phoned the police. Progressive eventually determined that the fraud ring included everyone from the scene-of-the-crime fraudsters to the crack "doctors" that diagnosed the injuries and then shared the insurance money.

 

[asechrest]

Oh, and the can't quote more than 4 vehicles thing is primarily a software issue as far as I can tell. Always drove me nuts to be quoting my client's car insurance and have to call an underwriter to "split" the vehicles across two policies because they had more than 4. Stupid. Luckily a bunch of carriers now have software that supports many more.

Oh, and with some noted exceptions, the quirky underwriting questions are based off of real claim experience. Given that these are mostly for-profit companies, they're entirely interested in reducing losses and lowering combined ratios. Dog bite claims accounted for more than a third of liability losses in 2016, with actuarial data that bears-out that some breeds are more prone to causing claims than others, so it's not surprising to see underwriting eligibility questions arising out of this. Now I have seem some friggin' stupid underwriting guidelines be rolled out, so I can't all of them entirely sensible.

Oh and that guy that wanted to have an inspector come out and look at the house is also getting entirely ahead of himself. It's certainly likely that the carrier(s) he quotes with might require an inspection pre or post-binding depending on the age of your home, but he should have the ability to provide you a quote before forcing you to inspect.

 

[azblackbird]

I'm a very safe driver, so I did the "big brother" thing several years ago and installed an insurance co. provided tracker in the OBD port so they could monitor my driving habits for a year. On initial sign up I automatically saved 15% on my renewal. On the next renewal date they lowered my premiums by 30% as I scored in the high 90's as a safe low risk driver. Since that time my premiums have only increased maybe $5 or $10 a year if even that. My homeowners insurance maybe increases an extra $15 or $20 a year. I've been with AMFAM for about 15 years now and have zero complaints.

 

[denverpilot]

I'm in this industry, as some of ya'll know. I'm not naive to the frustrations for the insurance consumer, either, so I'll avoid vehemently defending it. I will give some comments, though, with the caveat that I live in Florida and we are a fairly unique insurance marketplace.

Very unique! And I appreciate your insights.

The dude asked about your ceiling fans probably because he was running a "replacement cost estimator" in concert with your homeowner quoting. Most companies require that you insure for 100% of the estimated cost to rebuild, and will provide third-party software for the agent to make that estimate. The software allows very fine detail, right down to the number of ceiling fans, but will typically provide what it feels are average specs based off of the home basics - square footage, age, area, etc. I'm primarily in operations now, but when I was in sales, that's not a level of detail I'd ask during the first conversation. Someone shopping their homeowner insurance policy is often interested in having one primary question answered: "is your quote less expensive, apples-to-apples and per dollar of coverage, than my current policy". So it made the most sense to mirror the current coverage, while keeping in mind your ethical standards and underwriting guidelines of the carrier you're targeting for your client. So if the policy I was trying to beat covered a home for $150k when it was actually worth $300k, I might go ahead and quote at $150k to understand whether my quote was a better price per dollar, and then begin a conversation with the prospective client about how he was grossly underinsured.

Interesting possibility. Although that same conversation had almost no questions about the really expensive stuff in houses like some insurers asked about — Do you have fancy renovated kitchens and bathrooms? That was a big question for at least two or three of them. Makes sense. That’s where the real money is in house rebuilds these days. It ain’t slapping up framing and drywall. It’s the granite countertops and $2000 heated bidets. LOL. And Ron’s heated floor tiles. Haha. Who ARE you fancy people, anyway? I have bath mats. Hahahaha.

I'd definitely recommend exploring a local independent agent. They'll have access to some big-name national carriers, like The Hartford, Travelers, MetLife, Safeco (Liberty Mutual's independent-agency channel's carrier) etc., and can shop your rate between those carriers. They WON'T have access to what are called "captive carriers" - those that employ agents who may sell only their employing carrier's product. So that would be companies like Geico, State Farm, Allstate, etc. I have certainly been handily beat by many of those captive carriers over the years, so even if you settle on a local independent agent, you may opt to explore a few captive carriers every couple years.

I didn’t use them this time but there is a decent Independent I’ve quoted from in the past. In general having a large number of vehicles and a fairly large umbrella knocks out most of his underwriters right off the top, and he’s told me what’s left just often isn’t competitive on price. He’s really honest about it.

In Florida, at least, I'm so used to every company I know of ticking up rates every year (and sometimes multiple times a year), that the idea of rates going DOWN is quite foreign to me. But then again, Tampa and South Florida were the auto insurance fraud capitals of the nation at various times in recent memory. I recall my Progressive rep. describing to me a case that their internal fraud team had recently cracked. Florida is a "no fault" state. Which despite common understanding, means only that we have a coverage on the policy that responds to driver and passenger injuries FIRST, and without regard to fault, up to $10k. Doesn't matter if the other guy hit you, your no fault coverage (PIP) covers your injuries first, before his will. Because of the way the coverage is designed, and before some recent PIP reform measures, it was especially easy to claim injury and get money.

Progressive got a claim for a suspicious accident in a vehicle with many occupants. They were eventually able to obtain security camera footage from a business near the intersection where the accident took place. Rolling the tapes showed a van enter the intersection and stop. The occupants, who filled all seats in the van, then filed out and stood on the sidewalk. A few moments a later another car came into view and t-boned the stationary van. All the occupants climbed back in the van, and then phoned the police. Progressive eventually determined that the fraud everyone from the scene-of-the-crime fraudsters to the crack "doctors" that diagnosed the injuries and then shared the insurance money.

A few of the companies wanted to pitch their OBD-II port garbage to monitor our driving. I said absolutely not because as an engineer I know the stupid accelerometers would just hammer us every day on the washboarded dirt roads out here. Haha. Especially the one that has its own accelerometers and as their chipper little Call Center person said, “It’ll beep at you when you’re braking too hard!” LOL. Yeah. Braking isn’t available via OBD-II so your idiotic device will act as stupid as my iPhone in a mount that twirls around like I’ve spun it upside down on the dirt roads. LOL. No. Thanks.

But why I mention it is... I’m surprised with all the fraud, they just don’t offer an insurance company installed and spec’d dashcam front and rear. It’d catch all the accidents, could upload that crap directly to them with built in cellular data (including questionable accelerometer data even if they like) and definitely would catch a majority of the fake “Oh my neck hurts” claimants on camera, up doing jumping jacks next to their vehicles for an hour after the accident. LOL.

I can’t tell you how many times friends have now given dashcam footage to their insurer who’s then opened up unrestricted legal fire on the lying party. Seems a worthy investment these days. Lane changes without signals, blah blah blah. We video all sorts of useless crap — but insurers would save a LOT of money on fraud if they bought dashcams in bulk. As long as they don’t mind my loud singing in the video, they’d be good to go. LOL.

 

[mkosmo]

Interesting. I've been with the one that starts with "State" for over 45 years with no problems having claims handled. Luck of the draw?

There are good and bad stories with all of them.

 

[RJM62]

. . . .

But why I mention it is... I’m surprised with all the fraud, they just don’t offer an insurance company installed and spec’d dashcam front and rear. It’d catch all the accidents, could upload that crap directly to them with built in cellular data (including questionable accelerometer data even if they like) and definitely would catch a majority of the fake “Oh my neck hurts” claimants on camera, up doing jumping jacks next to their vehicles for an hour after the accident. LOL.

I can’t tell you how many times friends have now given dashcam footage to their insurer who’s then opened up unrestricted legal fire on the lying party. Seems a worthy investment these days. Lane changes without signals, blah blah blah. We video all sorts of useless crap — but insurers would save a LOT of money on fraud if they bought dashcams in bulk. As long as they don’t mind my loud singing in the video, they’d be good to go. LOL.

I installed a dash cam a few years ago. I'm a downright boring driver, so I wasn't concerned about it being used as evidence against me. I also wanted one with dual cameras, with the rear-facing camera also including at least part of the cabin interior to capture my pax flopping around in the event of an accident. I chose the Original Dashcam 2, which was pretty state-of-the-art in its day. There are better ones available now, but not better-enough for me to replace the one I have.

The reason I insisted on the rear-facing camera is because it's much more important than the front-facing camera, especially where I live. If I were to hit anything in front of me, it would probably be a deer, and deer can't sue or be sued. Their damage is also easy to identify, so there would be little need of a video record to prove that an accident was a wildlife strike (which carries certain insurance benefits in New York) as opposed to some other kind of collision. The fur, the blood, and the presence of a dead deer's head through the windshield when the police arrived would settle that question quite handily.

What I want to capture on video for posterity are the idiot tailgaters who infest Sparrow Fart during the various tourist seasons. They're usually not aggressive tailgaters, mind you. They just drive like they do in The City or wherever else they come from. It's literally impossible to observe the "three-second rule" on, say, the BQE. If you let that much space open up in front of you, you'll have three cars fill it before you can blink. You'd have to be in reverse to keep three seconds of distance between yourself and the vehicle in front of you in The City.

It usually works out okay down there because you don't have a whole lot of deer leaping in front of cars in Brooklyn or Queens. Up here, we do. I've been near-rear-ended on multiple occasions by tailgaters when I hit the brakes to avoid hitting suicidal deer. If one of those tailgaters ever hits me, I will have them on video. That will make for a pretty open-and-shut insurance case against them and reduce the chances of my having to file a lawsuit to be made whole. Even insurance company lawyers don't like taking cases that they know they're going to lose because there's video evidence of their idiot insured following waaaaay too closely.

Rich

 

[Norman]

I have the Garmin Dash Cam 20. Good optics (not distorted like Go Pro) and a good wide angle. I consider it a necessity to protect myself against false claims.

 

[SkyHog]

Always do minimums for 2 reasons:

1. I’d rather pay for damage above my policy than pay it into a black hole in the hopes that I do cause damage (as my dad always said - I’m betting I will wreck, they’re betting I won’t)
2. I’d rather not incentivize them to force rates higher by including anything above minimums in their minimum offering.

While I have car loans, I get comprehensive. As soon as the note is paid off, it’s back to liability for me.

 

[SkyHog]

Oh, and I had liberty mutual for a few years because they were the cheapest. Then Amica got better rates. The frustrating thing is that Amica seems to always screw up sending the insurance details to my AutoLoan provider so I have to manually send the policy to them.

Annoying, but cheap. Cheap is key with insurance. Every bit of insurance is a state sponsored scam.

 

[Rushie]

I'm another Amica fan. I've been with them all my life. Had a few small car claims (windshield, hit a deer, fender bender) and it was easy, streamlined, wonderful. To my mind, the claims is when you get your money's worth, when something happens you don't need any extra stress.

After 40 years with Amica I finally had a big claim, the flood of our house, and I was so glad we were with them. The response was instant, they had a contractor there in under an hour and it was a very good contractor as it turned out. They paid the contractor directly for the mitigation and pack out, then sent us a check for 80% of the rebuild, and we could pick whatever contractor we wanted. They are covering everything without any argument or pushback, I just have to send them price sheets and pictures of damaged items and receipts for apartment, etc. The only issue is right now there is a delay is settling it all out, very likely they are swamped with Harvey. I don't see any problems so far with great premium increases or other "punishments" for actually using the policy either.

PS edit: years ago Clark Howard was talking about home insurers dropping you if you made a claim or even called and asked a question that could be interpreted as you might make a claim. I don't know if it's still a problem haven't listened to Clark in a long time. But back then he was recommending USAA and Amica as the only two companies he would deal with.

Well yes he is here's an article just from June. I agree about the deductible. For home, get a high deductible and don't use it except for catastrophic stuff.

http://clark.com/insurance/best-and-worst-home-insurers/

 

[denverpilot]

Always do minimums for 2 reasons:

1. I’d rather pay for damage above my policy than pay it into a black hole in the hopes that I do cause damage (as my dad always said - I’m betting I will wreck, they’re betting I won’t)
2. I’d rather not incentivize them to force rates higher by including anything above minimums in their minimum offering.

While I have car loans, I get comprehensive. As soon as the note is paid off, it’s back to liability for me.

Up to you but generally you’re not insuring against damages. Damage to vehicles is the tiny number in big insurance settlements in car wrecks.

Liability for death or worse, life long injury, is the number that’s your controlling number for auto insurance risk. Killing someone in a wreck is waaaaaay cheaper than putting them in a wheelchair for life.

The other thing about higher coverages is that the insurer is a lot more vested in not paying out that amount overall. They’ll actually involve an attorney.

Presented with a request to pay out Colorado’s minimums after a serious injury accident? They’ll smile and write the check and tell you to have fun without them in Civil court.

If you have no assets, sure. Low coverage. Can’t squeeze blood from a turnip. But with assets you probably want a reasonably high liability number and an umbrella.

As far as Clark Howard goes, he has some good advice. He’s also one of the few who will point out that insurer provided roadside assistance and those low deductible windshield add ons, are a huge scam. Why? Get towed, it gets listed as a claim. Get a new windshield? Another claim. Then an accident? Another claim. Now try to hop insurance companies. Oooh, I see here you have three claims in the last three years...

Not kidding. My two towing events, both from dead fuel pumps on trucks, nothing even mildly interesting — is listed as THREE claims against Comprehensive in the secret database, I’ve learned. Three because towing the pickup was one claim, towing the fifth wheel is the second, and towing the Yukon on a different date is the third. This has caused *real* problems getting quotes.

Not ever doing insurance company road-side ever again. It was CHEAP compared to AAA or similar. But now that I know their scam... nope. I’ll pay cash for the tow truck for a dead fuel pump, or two, thanks.

Same thing with glass. You pay a little extra and you do the math and get a crack... you realize you’ve already paid for the window almost and the deductible will make it a wash. So you claim it and replace the windshield. Yep. Claim. And every claim hurts on insurability and future rates without explaining it a thousand times for the underwriters, if they even ask.

No windshields and no towing on insurance. Stay far far away. Bad bad scam going on there.

 

[denverpilot]

By the way, new likely insurer couldn’t get their policy review done in a week, and forced me to renew on one car on the old policy. Their excuse? “Managers have to review this stuff and there aren’t enough of them. They also have Monday off for some holiday, but the rest of us will be here.”

Not kidding. Mildly paraphrased, but hilarious if it weren’t so sad. The current state of American Business I guess.

Dear idiots. I am standing here trying to throw cash at you for a policy for a house, five cars, and an umbrella, that if you can just stop stepping on your own pricks long enough to take it, you’ll probably make however many YEARS worth of premiums you’ll get out of me before you start jerking me around with higher rates again because I’m “loyal”.

Of course the Call Center monkeys say all the nice things and they’re sorry and all that. And, I turned on the computer and sent $650 to the insurer I want to drop, because they couldn’t complete the most basic thing any business must complete to survive: Sign a new customer.

I’ll still drop the old insurer if they manage to figure this out on Tuesday. But now I’ll have to wait a month for a refund check.

They know this. It’s in the “notes” in their (completely ignored, like all of them are) ticket system. Awaiting some “manager” to come to work and work as hard as their staff apparently.

Instead of spending millions on ads saying it’s easy to switch to their company, you’d think they’d just set some deadlines on themselves and hit them.

48 hours should be plenty of time to deal with a customer from first contact to underwritten and signed. Not writing a complex business policy or anything like that.

And no, my soon to be former company is no better. The agent (and I like her) just tells you out loud she can’t get past the horrible security junk on their systems and once in there, has to read pages and pages of stuff on what’s obviously an IT system that hasn’t seen a UI designer in 30 years, to answer even simple questions.

She’s knowledgeable and trained on the business and knows exactly what you’re asking, she just can’t GET it from their computers.

It’s impressively bad for companies with such large profit margins and a product that sells itself via a legal mandate to have it, to not have decent computer systems. Let’s not even mention what the customer sees on their customer website. But boy do they have TV ads. Everywhere. And golf tournaments. Everywhere.

The current agent was REALLY frustrated at her competitor’s quote though. I will say that. “I don’t know how they’re offering this! We’re regulated! They’ll have to raise rates sometime! They’ll go out of business at these rates!”

Yeah yeah. Okay. They’ll likely raise my rates. Fine. So in the meantime I’ll enjoy nearly half off of what your company is charging me. She couldn’t find any coverages missing or any gimmicks in the quote.

And she (after fighting with the computer for five minutes) changed her stuff to match coverage exactly and still came out too high by thousands.

I would love to stick with her. She’s a good agent. She actually likes being in the Insurance biz. And isn’t a Call Center monkey. But double the price? Sorry.

If these other folks can get their act together long enough to get a policy started, I’m out.

Oh. And thank your company for reporting towing for two dead fuel pumps as three Comprehensive claims to the secret database. Seriously. That’s helping a bunch.

It’s really too bad my calculations show I wouldn’t hit a number where I would feel comfortable self-insuring at, for another 52 years at current ROI. Dang it.

If I got rid of all the insurance, I could do it in 39 years. Ha. Oh well.

 

[tlglenn]

Btw, if you want driving privileges in an aircraft operations area then you might be required to carry more than the minimum insurance.

 

[Ventucky Red]

Interesting. I've been with the one that starts with "State" for over 45 years with no problems having claims handled. Luck of the draw?

About a year after the Northridge earthquake my home as burglarized... I live about 50 miles from the epicenter of the quake. They cleaned me out when I was out of town one long weekend... still think it was one of the neighbors in the rental across the street. State Farm really ran me through the wringer on getting the claim filed and paid. I go the feeling they didn't want to pay-it.. They wanted proof of ownership on all the things I was claiming... Lucky for me and my anal retentiveness I staple the receipts to the owners manual and kept them in my file cabinet. We were good once I turned all of that (the originals, the copies I made were not good enough) over to them, then there was the CD collection... The adjuster flat out said there is no way anyone could own that many CDs.... Thanks goodness for MS Excel & 3.5" Floppy disk. I had all 421 of them cataloged.. the only way I could keep track of them when I lent them out and to who! I can understand there are some folks out whose T.V. grew a couple of inches right before they file a claim... I am a firm believer in Karma and I like sleeping at night... All I wanted was my stuff back..

Farmers.. got rear ended while stopped at a light.. The guy that hit me was with Farmers too... and get this he was an agent.. They told me I was going to collect on my policy and he on his.... I don't think so, and after a few calls from my lawyer (sister) they got it right... then there was the fight with the repair shop and the adjuster.. their shop said there was no way they could repair it for less than what it was worth and after a few more -go-a-rounds they total it... then there was the pay out... they wanted to give me KBB wholesale... no I don't think so. After four weeks, my final statement to them was "$X,XXX.XX in my hands BCOB on Friday or we'll in court on Monday... guess what showed up Thursday morning.. They should have been ecstatic as I was not trying to pull a whiplash scam on them... And then there was the payment for the rental car.... Oye... these people didn't quit! I will have to say I was pretty happy when I got the cancellation notice a few months later..

Fortunately I have only used my AAA policy once... Went to AAA for the auto insurance when I got married, wife was already with them and it was cheaper to go with hers at the time. Driving down the road with a NACRA catamaran I literally just bought... a kid comes through a stop sign and t-bones and totals the boat, trailer, and caused a little damage to the back of the car... The car is drive-able but the boat and trailer are not and get towed away. I met the adjuster at the wrecking yard where he inspects the boat, trailer and then asked me how much I paid for it.. Wrote me a check right then and there for the full amount... Keep in mind, this thing wasn't even in my name let alone covered under my policy... Getting the car fixed was just as easy... he gave a list of their "authorized" repair shops.. drove by got an estimate and a time to drop it off. Keep in mind the damage was not that bad. This was a 1997 Jeep Cherokee with the fiberglass rear door/hatch... They had a new one painted and waiting when I dropped the car off and it only took about four hours to R&R the part..

After this we moved everything over to them.

 

[steingar]

Reminds me of when I bought my first sport bike. I called Progressive for insurance, and was shocked to hear the quote which was half again what I'd spent on the bike for one year. I then called my own insurer (who will remain nameless here) who quoted similarly (do keep in mind that at this point I was over 40, had been riding motorcycles for 20 years without a claim and hadn't even had a ticket in close to a decade). Finally I found an insurer who would insure the bike for something reasonable, but they wanted all my other business, which they got. Still insured with them to this day.