hmm... guess I won't be flying anymore

flyer said:
I'm not saying I cant handle a 10 kt x wind. If given a choice I rather not deal with them. Anytime one deals with abnormal conditions it increases risk, and to me it just isn't worth it. There have been many occasions when I go to the airport and find direct x winds, I cancel the flight.
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The problem arises on the day that you takeoff with no wind and then the wind picks up. One should try and be prepared for what might happen--and an increase in wind might happen. Add one or two more issues to the flight and you might have enough mistakes in the chain to cause an accident.
 
flyer said:
I'm not saying I cant handle a 10 kt x wind. If given a choice I rather not deal with them. Anytime one deals with abnormal conditions it increases risk, and to me it just isn't worth it. There have been many occasions when I go to the airport and find direct x winds, I cancel the flight.
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Crosswinds are not an abnormal condition though. I get crosswinds more times than no, and rotor currents.... It's all part of everyday flying.
 
I'm going to stick my neck out here and disagree with much of what has been said.

I know everyone here, including the original poster, has a passion for flight, so I understand why we would have a tough time telling someone it's ok to give it up...

We have all read accident reports that lead to FATALITIES where we shake our head and wonder why that pilot, with a couple previous accidents and a 709 ride, was still in the air... We wonder why someone couldn't just say "sorry, flying is not for you, we don't want to see anyone get killed"...

I really have to hand it to the pilot that can recognize this for himself! I hate to see someone leave something they love, but there are many other ways to still be involved with aviation.

And as for the comment about switching to a Bonanza, I hope that was a joke. I am a Bonanza pilot myself and can say that it is NOT the plane for remedial training.
 
ErikU said:
I'm going to stick my neck out here and disagree with much of what has been said.

I know everyone here, including the original poster, has a passion for flight, so I understand why we would have a tough time telling someone it's ok to give it up...

We have all read accident reports that lead to FATALITIES where we shake our head and wonder why that pilot, with a couple previous accidents and a 709 ride, was still in the air... We wonder why someone couldn't just say "sorry, flying is not for you, we don't want to see anyone get killed"...

I really have to hand it to the pilot that can recognize this for himself! I hate to see someone leave something they love, but there are many other ways to still be involved with aviation.

And as for the comment about switching to a Bonanza, I hope that was a joke. I am a Bonanza pilot myself and can say that it is NOT the plane for remedial training.
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All anyone really said was find out WHAT you are doing wrong before you quit. Get a different CFI and different plane. Flying the plane does not seem to be a problem or landing for that matter. It sounds more like he is having trouble taxiing. Could be as simple as coming to a complete stop on the runway before attempting to do anything else. It would be sad to stop flying because of something that could have an easy fix. That is all that was said.

Dan
 
ErikU said:
And as for the comment about switching to a Bonanza, I hope that was a joke. I am a Bonanza pilot myself and can say that it is NOT the plane for remedial training.
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Of course it was a joke.

But it's not completely a joke, either. 172s are annoying to land, compared to a more substantial plane. If I were the OP, I'd fly with a CFI to make sure that I wasn't doing anything wrong and then I'd stay away from 172s. They're not pretty, anyways :D

-Felix
 
sba55 said:
and then I'd stay away from 172s. They're not pretty, anyways :D

-Felix
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Be careful Felix, lest you tread on the feelings of others. ;) Bonanzas aren't necessarily lusted after by the rest of us. Besides, high wings rule! :D And very few Bonanzas can do aerobatics. :p
 
Diana said:
Be careful Felix, lest you tread on the feelings of others. ;) Bonanzas aren't necessarily lusted after by the rest of us. Besides, high wings rule! :D And very few Bonanzas can do aerobatics. :p
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Well, again, obviously I'm kidding :yes: But I do think it'd make sense for the OP to fly something other than 172s.

-Felix
 
Well... I will admit that the bonanza rules in cross winds. For some reason I make better landnings in strong cross winds!
 
Diana said:
Why? What would you suggest? Something easier, like a Beech?
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Even a PA-28. From what I remember, they land pretty nicely.

All I was trying to say (without luck, evidently) is that, after two accidents with a specific type of plane, I'd stay away from it. Maybe there are issues with the OP's technique, and those need to be addressed, but it's probably also helpful to fly something with different landing characteristics.
 
as the OP, I guess I'll jump back in on this.

Thanks to all for their suggestions and comments, including Henning and ErikU who basically said, in not so many words, "give it up"...

I understand that side of the argument, but as many others have pointed out, if some lack of knowledge or bad technique during landing and/or taxi in x-wind conditions is my only issue, then it's hard to stop doing something you love based on something that should be relatively easy to correct. I do think I'm a safe pilot and excercise good judgement, but I'm obviously doing something that needs to get corrected.

I haven't decided for sure what I'm going to do, but a member of the board has offerred to assist, and if I do decide to keeping flying, I will take them up on that. Again if I continue to fly, I'll pass the 709 ride, and then take a step back and see where to go from there. I might see if I can find somebody else to rent from or dive into ownership, or I might take a year or 2 off and see if I want to start flying again after I've had some time to evaluate what my options are.

We shall see.
 
I know I'm terribly late with this post and haven't read it all, but are you sure that there was nothing wrong, mechanically with one or both of the planes. Rental planes can take a beating, and something could have been on the ragged edge of failing. If not and you decide to go on, keep on flying with an instructor. There is nothing wrong with flying with a CFI until you are comfortable, capable, and competent.
 
Dave2 said:
I know I'm terribly late with this post and haven't read it all, but are you sure that there was nothing wrong, mechanically with one or both of the planes. Rental planes can take a beating, and something could have been on the ragged edge of failing. If not and you decide to go on, keep on flying with an instructor. There is nothing wrong with flying with a CFI until you are comfortable, capable, and competent.
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a good question. On the 1st one, no, I don't think there was anything wrong with the plane. The juror is still out on this 2nd time. As I replayed the events in my head, I remember that on takeoff, the nose swung to the right as soon as I left the ground. At first I dismissed this as me just holding too much right rudder, but then I got to thinking that maybe there was something going on with the rudder pedals and/or steering mechanism. We'll see if they find anything on that front.
 
sbonek said:
I understand that side of the argument, but as many others have pointed out, if some lack of knowledge or bad technique during landing and/or taxi in x-wind conditions is my only issue, then it's hard to stop doing something you love based on something that should be relatively easy to correct. I do think I'm a safe pilot and excercise good judgement, but I'm obviously doing something that needs to get corrected.
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Ok, give it a shot, but the question that comes to my mind is, "If the deficiency is one that is easy to correct, why didn't it get corrected after the last one?" Good luck.
 
Henning said:
Ok, give it a shot, but the question that comes to my mind is, "If the deficiency is one that is easy to correct, why didn't it get corrected after the last one?" Good luck.
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A very good question that I don't have an answer to. However, I will re-state that though the results of both were the similiar, the circumstances were completely different (at least in my head, the only one in the a/c at the time of the incidents).

In the first one, the incident happened right as the mains touched the ground. In the 2nd one, all 3 wheels were on the ground and the a/c was slowing when something happened to cause it to go left. The cause could be the same.. we will see.
 
When I first started training in the Apache, I realized that my big feet were causing me to unintentionally actuate the toe brakes. Could this have happened to you?
BTW, I am back working on my single engine BFR after surrendering my multi ticket. I would have been fine taking the 709 ride, but no flight school in this area wanted to let the local FSDO inspector get near their twin.
Since the Apache is scrap now, I really don't need the multi ticket at the moment. I hope to go Wednesday for the second half of my BFR.
:blueplane:
ApacheBob
 
ApacheBob said:
When I first started training in the Apache, I realized that my big feet were causing me to unintentionally actuate the toe brakes. Could this have happened to you?
BTW, I am back working on my single engine BFR after surrendering my multi ticket. I would have been fine taking the 709 ride, but no flight school in this area wanted to let the local FSDO inspector get near their twin.
Since the Apache is scrap now, I really don't need the multi ticket at the moment. I hope to go Wednesday for the second half of my BFR.
:blueplane:
ApacheBob
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anything is possible, but to prevent such instances, I got myself in the habit of relaxing my feet right after the wheels meet the runway.
 
ApacheBob said:
Since the Apache is scrap now, I really don't need the multi ticket at the moment. I hope to go Wednesday for the second half of my BFR.
:blueplane:
ApacheBob
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Wait, where is the thread about the death of the Apache?:dunno::dunno::dunno:
 
Henning said:
Wait, where is the thread about the death of the Apache?:dunno::dunno::dunno:
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Yikes, Bob! Glad you're OK, but last I heard, you were trying to sell the Apache, in one piece.
 
Henning said:
Wait, where is the thread about the death of the Apache?:dunno::dunno::dunno:
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SCCutler said:
Yikes, Bob! Glad you're OK, but last I heard, you were trying to sell the Apache, in one piece.
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FlyNE said:
I don't think I've seen an official thread...I've just seen mention of the demise.

http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?p=249443#post249443

http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?p=177695#post177695
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I'll leave ti to Bob to answer questions. The plane was recently sold on eBay by the insurance company rep (Wentworth)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1957...223344431QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item160223344431

Here are some pics.
 

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sbonek said:
anything is possible, but to prevent such instances, I got myself in the habit of relaxing my feet right after the wheels meet the runway.
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For me, I don't think relaxed would be totally the right word, although I think I know what you mean. I fire my feet synapses on short final and they're just waiting to put that nose where it belongs in a flash, all the way to tiedown.
 
Dave Krall CFII said:
For me, I don't think relaxed would be totally the right word, although I think I know what you mean. I fire my feet synapses on short final and they're just waiting to put that nose where it belongs in a flash, all the way to tiedown.
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your right, relaxed may not be the right word, I don't physically take them off the pedals, but I ease up a little, to make sure I'm not holding too much rudder either way to cause the a/c to swerve one way or another once the nose wheel touches the ground.
 
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