Hit some "light" turbulence today - questions

Cluemeister said:
Was there an Airmet Tango for the area? (apologies if you've already mentioned there was)
Click to expand...

Not when I checked this morning but maybe one was issued after I took off idk
 
1. The stall horn chirps are no biggie so don't let that bug you if you are cruising along and the rough air is tripping it.
2. There is a time when I would have turned around and a time I likely wouldn't have.

I turned around lots of times for things I now know I can get through.
You're fine. Erring on the side of caution is never the wrong thing to do.
 
CC268 said:
Yea, but at what point do I push my self a little and say, "hey I gotta get used to flying in some serious turbulence?". How do I know if I really was in a "dangerous" position?
Click to expand...
Hearing the horn briefly in turbulence isn't too unusual; IMHO, I tend to think of turbulence as annoying, rather than dangerous. But when you hit the "stops" on the controls, then it's probably a good sign to go home, especially the elevator stops. But flying for fun, you don't have to make a fight out of it, and I think you made a good call.
 
CC268 said:
I am very good about checking weather and as stated I checked winds aloft and there was no red flags there. Although I am certainly not an expert in weather and I am trying to become better and more familiar with it. I am very comfortable with stalls. I took an entire aerobatic course to get comfortable. Including an hour in a Pitts S2C. You can read about it in the aerobatic section if your interested. I never said I was concerned about the stall warning, just that it was a little surprising considering I was climbing out at 85-90 mph.
Click to expand...

When it's really bumpy, you'll hear the stall horn chirping all the time even when you're in cruise.
 
N659HB said:
Not all of us have those horns. ;)
Click to expand...

Yeah, I was gonna say I get around the stall warning horn by not having one. :D

I've turned back a couple of times due to turbulence, going up a particularly ornery local pass, when it just didn't feel right. When stuff in the load area starts levitating, that's my limit!
 
CC268 said:
Yea makes sense
Click to expand...
I am.like u. I don't like being bumped around. During my training there were days when it was bumpy, I would just sit there do nothing and have CFI fly it. It was so bad that when I expressed my interest in buying a plane my CFI flat out said, I don't know if i can solo u, not sure if u shud buy a plane. He was not wrong making that comment. I got used to it. Had a few flight s pretty bumpy (light turb I am sure, but in my mind the wings were seperating) but I realized I lived thru it and didn't let Jesus fly the plane. Just came back from KGPZ and did hit some updrafts over the lake area, didn't worry about it. It gets better. But I will also say, the min I think it's beyond my personal limit, I am finding an airport (which would be pretty easy since I plan my flight in a way that there is at least 2 airport between my departure and destination) and landing and try again later.

I think u made a sound ADM not to push when it was getting beyond ur limit.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 
Half Fast said:
Years ago, when I learned to cave dive, my instructor emphasized over and over this mantra: "Any diver can call off any dive at any time for any reason."
Click to expand...

I misread "cave dive" as "cliff dive".

It's a funnier mental image of a cliff diving instructor (in a speedo?) telling a nervous student he can call the dive anytime.
 
OP keeps saying microburst. Any indication of the weather where they occur being anywhere near you? If so, WTH were you doing flying VFR?

Also, we know how many miles in before a front the weather starts getting disturbed. Anything like that in your pre or post analysis of the weather?

I'm a chop wimp myself. I slow down or set down when it get bumpy.

You started with 8000' to 10000' with rain. Where is that rain coming from? Could be moisture being pulled up into the cloud, condensing and falling? I wouldn't expect a smooth ride below that.

But then, I got a D in meteorology.
 
Ravioli said:
OP keeps saying microburst. Any indication of the weather where they occur being anywhere near you? If so, WTH were you doing flying VFR?

Also, we know how many miles in before a front the weather starts getting disturbed. Anything like that in your pre or post analysis of the weather?

I'm a chop wimp myself. I slow down or set down when it get bumpy.

You started with 8000' to 10000' with rain. Where is that rain coming from? Could be moisture being pulled up into the cloud, condensing and falling? I wouldn't expect a smooth ride below that.

But then, I got a D in meteorology.
Click to expand...

I was just exaggerating. Seriously...if you saw the weather you would not have thought it to be a "bad" day to fly by any stretch. The rain was a very very light drizzle for probably less than 30 seconds. But you could be right about your last statement regarding the moisture being pulled up, condensing, and then falling.
 
Sort of off topic, but we get virga like this quite a bit in AZ. I know @mtuomi has experience with this. Do you just completely avoid and don't go near any areas that look like this?

virga.JPG
 
CC268 said:
Sort of off topic, but we get virga like this quite a bit in AZ. I know @mtuomi has experience with this. Do you just completely avoid and don't go near any areas that look like this?
Click to expand...

The important thing is to understand what actually is happening there. The evaporation cools down the air, and it obviously causes the air to sink. This usually only happens within a very limited radius around the virga.
Don't fly under it, give it a few miles, and you'll be fine. Underneath it, you're going to have a bad day.
The really powerful stuff needs a lot more moisture, they look like this:

 
mtuomi said:
The important thing is to understand what actually is happening there. The evaporation cools down the air, and it obviously causes the air to sink. This usually only happens within a very limited radius around the virga.
Don't fly under it, give it a few miles, and you'll be fine. Underneath it, you're going to have a bad day.
The really powerful stuff needs a lot more moisture, they look like this:

Click to expand...

Roger that thanks for the tips
 
Ravioli said:
Does rain happen any other way?
Click to expand...

I’m not sure why you feel the need to be a smart ass? Everyone else here has been very helpful. Maybe I am misinterpreting your post.
 
Last edited:
CC268 said:
I’m not sure why you feel the need to be a smart ass? Everyone else here has been very helpful. Maybe I am misinterpreting your post.
Click to expand...

Perhaps others are explaining weather in a way you find more helpful. Or you're exaggerating my being a smart ass like you chose to with your microburst.

Nonetheless... the way rain happens is fairly settled science.

Numerous threads here talk about managing energy in flight. Among the energies we cannot control are the uneven heating of the earth's surface, which leads to ____, and evaporation that pulls moisture up through the air to form ______ and ___. Flying through those energy events may just disturb the ride a bit. Maybe.
 
Ravioli said:
Perhaps others are explaining weather in a way you find more helpful. Or you're exaggerating my being a smart ass like you chose to with your microburst.

Nonetheless... the way rain happens is fairly settled science.

Numerous threads here talk about managing energy in flight. Among the energies we cannot control are the uneven heating of the earth's surface, which leads to ____, and evaporation that pulls moisture up through the air to form ______ and ___. Flying through those energy events may just disturb the ride a bit. Maybe.
Click to expand...

Roger that
 
Last edited:
I think the one thing to keep in mind with turbulence is it is almost always unpredictable. We all know we can check the winds aloft, avoid flying under clouds and the like but the unpredictability of the turbulence leads me to wonder "how much longer is this going to go on for?"when in it. That's not fun and that unpredictability can be unsettling especially when one is a new pilot. Maybe it will end in 3 miles.... Maybe 20.... There is really no way to tell!

Therefore, I'll admit, with a passenger on board, I've aborted a flight a few times because of turbulence. By myself,I'll keep going but I'm more sensative with a passenger.

OP, thanks for sharing your story. The guys giving you a hard time about being sensative are not doingyou any favors. Take the advice given and ignore all the noise from the name callers!
 
mtuomi said:
The important thing is to understand what actually is happening there. The evaporation cools down the air, and it obviously causes the air to sink. This usually only happens within a very limited radius around the virga.
Don't fly under it, give it a few miles, and you'll be fine. Underneath it, you're going to have a bad day.
The really powerful stuff needs a lot more moisture, they look like this:

Click to expand...

That could really wash out a day of flying.
 
One thing that I don’t believe was mentioned previously is that if turbulence is encounter is consider slowing the plane down to maneuvering speed (Va). Not only is it better on the aircraft, but smooths the bumps for you and your passengers. May be a loose analogy, but to me it’s kind of like the difference between taking your car down a really bumpy round at 10mph versus 30-40 mph.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
jordane93 said:
Whatever you’re comfortable with. If I was by myself, I probably would have continued. If I was with a first time passenger I’d probably turn back and call it a day.
Click to expand...

Not me man, I'd do just the opposite. I don't want to die alone.

;)

OP - you did the right thing.
 
Rhino said:
One thing that I don’t believe was mentioned previously is that if turbulence is encounter is consider slowing the plane down to maneuvering speed (Va). Not only is it better on the aircraft, but smooths the bumps for you and your passengers. May be a loose analogy, but to me it’s kind of like the difference between taking your car down a really bumpy round at 10mph versus 30-40 mph.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

The maneuvering speed in my cherokee is is 129 mph. Which is funny because my typical cruise speed is 115-120 mph. I was no where near even that in this occasion so I was well below VA.
 
Sounds like maybe a light mountain wave preceding the front that is coming in.

Was this while over the "shelf"?
 
Turb doesn't always smooth out by climbing. Yesterday, while flying back to SoCal from NoCal (I was around Visalia), I was hitting some pretty good light to moderate turb at around 9500. I asked ATC for ride reports, and they said mod turb had been reported between 8500 and 13,500. I descended to 7500, and everything smoothed out. It was clear skies where I was, but I was west of the Sierras, and the wind was out of the east.

Airmet Tangos aren't a guarantee for turbulence. There was one for most of my route of flight for under 12k and below, and only in that one area did I find any turb. More times than not, I have had smooth flights through ATs. They are not in and of themselves, reasons to cancel flights.

Use winds and temps aloft forecasts, pireps, and ask ATC for ride reports. Also, look at any frontal activity, note the surrounding terrain enroute, and figure time of day for your flights.

An understanding of types of turbulences and their causes is a big help. Here was a quick site I found helpful....http://www.boldmethod.com/blog/lists/2016/03/types-of-turbulence-that-can-rock-your-flight/

I always, immediately, slow to at or slightly below Va when the turb gets kicking pretty good. I also, tighten the lap belt, so I don't get knocked out hitting my head on the ceiling....:confused:

It's a part of life in the SW.
 
Zeldman said:
Sounds like maybe a light mountain wave preceding the front that is coming in.

Was this while over the "shelf"?
Click to expand...

Yea I was thinking maybe the same thing. If you look at a VFR chart of the Phoenix area you can see Squaw Peak as a visual reporting point. Just north of KPHX. In that area is where this was happening.
 
ActiveAir said:
Turb doesn't always smooth out by climbing. Yesterday, while flying back to SoCal from NoCal (I was around Visalia), I was hitting some pretty good light to moderate turb at around 9500. I asked ATC for ride reports, and they said mod turb had been reported between 8500 and 13,500. I descended to 7500, and everything smoothed out. It was clear skies where I was, but I was west of the Sierras, and the wind was out of the east.

Airmet Tangos aren't a guarantee for turbulence. There was one for most of my route of flight for under 12k and below, and only in that one area did I find any turb. More times than not, I have had smooth flights through ATs. They are not in and of themselves, reasons to cancel flights.

Use winds and temps aloft forecasts, pireps, and ask ATC for ride reports. Also, look at any frontal activity, note the surrounding terrain enroute, and figure time of day for your flights.

An understanding of types of turbulences and their causes is a big help. Here was a quick site I found helpful....http://www.boldmethod.com/blog/lists/2016/03/types-of-turbulence-that-can-rock-your-flight/

I always, immediately, slow to at or slightly below Va when the turb gets kicking pretty good. I also, tighten the lap belt, so I don't get knocked out hitting my head on the ceiling....:confused:

It's a part of life in the SW.
Click to expand...

Great post. Thanks for the help.
 
My last trip with my dad was supposed to be 2.5 hours and ended up being 0.45. I returned home over much less of an issue.

We're both still alive, that's all that matters.

Wx should be scary.
 
CC268 said:
Yea I was thinking maybe the same thing. If you look at a VFR chart of the Phoenix area you can see Squaw Peak as a visual reporting point. Just north of KPHX. In that area is where this was happening.
Click to expand...

Ok, I see where you were at.

I seem to remember coming into KPHX from the north east and the ride smoothing out most of the time once I get below 7000-8000 msl and past the shelf. During summer that is. Monsoon season is a different story.

Passenger comfort is part of flying. No big deal turning around if passengers are hanging on for dear life.
 
It's also better to turn off the auto pilot with anything more than light turb. You can do a better job of smoothing out the bumps and so your ap won't get over-worked.

Worst turb I've experienced is in the Owens Valley, heading up to Mammoth, or back down from Lake Tahoe. Had to climb to over 16,500' and put on O2. Rotors are gnarly and no fun.
 
ActiveAir said:
It's also better to turn off the auto pilot with anything more than light turb. You can do a better job of smoothing out the bumps and so your ap won't get over-worked.

Worst turb I've experienced is in the Owens Valley, heading up to Mammoth, or back down from Lake Tahoe. Had to climb to over 16,500' and put on O2. Rotors are gnarly and no fun.
Click to expand...

No autopilot in the ole Cherokee 140 lol
 
ActiveAir said:
Worst turb I've experienced is in the Owens Valley, heading up to Mammoth, or back down from Lake Tahoe. Had to climb to over 16,500' and put on O2. Rotors are gnarly and no fun.
Click to expand...

Can I ask what time of day (and year) that was? I am thinking of flying up through the Owens Valley to visit with a friend at KCXP one of these days. As a SP flying a LSA, I have a ceiling of 10,000 feet. Do you think it would be just too brutal a flight in a LSA?
 
rtk11 said:
Can I ask what time of day (and year) that was? I am thinking of flying up through the Owens Valley to visit with a friend at KCXP one of these days. As a SP flying a LSA, I have a ceiling of 10,000 feet. Do you think it would be just too brutal a flight in a LSA?
Click to expand...

Depends on the winds. Summers can be bad.
 
rtk11 said:
Can I ask what time of day (and year) that was? I am thinking of flying up through the Owens Valley to visit with a friend at KCXP one of these days. As a SP flying a LSA, I have a ceiling of 10,000 feet. Do you think it would be just too brutal a flight in a LSA?
Click to expand...

All the flights were in winter, in February or March. Morning and late afternoon flights. It is not always windy through the valley. What you want to pay attention to are the winds speeds coming over the Sierras from the West. If the wind speeds are over 15 -20kts, it probably won't be comfortable through the valley. Some guys have higher tolerances.

Check the winds aloft @ 10k, 12K & 15K, maps here: http://aviationweather.gov/adds/winds/

There is another website for wind reports over the Sierras, but I can't find the link. A lot of good posts on flying the Owens Valley over on AOPA forums.

CharlieTango on this forum flies (or used to fly) an LSA out of Mammoth. Look up some of his posts.

An understanding of flying in the mountains, and mountain wave, etc. is very important before you go. My plane is a Comanche 260B, with 3 blade prop and an internal O2 system for the higher alts.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top