Hershey bar wings and landing

1000RR said:
Was this in a PA32 or a 28? I know in our PA32, this is EXACTLY how it is. In fact, just last week my wife and I were flying into Venice Beach and I turned base/final and was very high. She said she didn't really notice... but the sight picture was very awkward and similarly to what you described, pulled the power, let it sink, put power back in prior to reaching my desired altitude (otherwise it'll get away from you) and it was a beauty.
Click to expand...
PA28
 
cowtowner said:
PA28
Click to expand...
I recall that in the PA28 as well. The 1956 172 not so much. I recall a number of times a bit of an updraft while on final and I had the power all the way out and it wouldn't descent a bit... The PA28 (or 32), that didn't seem to be an issue - haha.
 
Sometimes the PA-32 seems akin to playing frisbee with a manhole cover.

The PA-28 is not near like that, as you best see as a PA-32 pilot flying a PA-28.
 
steingar said:
If you can't land a Cherokee you can't land. I don't think there's ever been an easier airplane to land.
Click to expand...

Or the Cherokee Arrow (as my Arrow POH calls it). That old sucker (Hershey bar wings) was finished flying the second the mains touched down. In all the years the club had that plane I never bounced a landing. Now, the 172 or 182? I can bounce the landings in those with the best of them. Not so much now (watch me jinx myself), but in the past...
 
Honestly, I’ve flown everything from a C152, to a super swept wing C750, to an A321…. None really lands much different other than the sight picture due to height from ground.
 
FlyBoyAndy said:
It could be anything from flare too soon, to a bounce landing, to not enough angle, and so on.
Click to expand...
Your landings are inconsistent the same as the stabilator. By smoothing the airflow over the tail, you can get a more predictable feel as you flare for landing. There's no reason you need to pull the throttle back to the idle stop, which generates turbulent airflow behind the propeller arc as the slipstream starts to push the prop around rather than the prop smoothly slinging the air backward over the tail. If you experiment with finding a throttle setting that gives zero thrust, you can improve your control immensely. When you feel you are about to touch, squeeze off the last little bit and it'll squat right there. Don't use enough to make you float.

But here's what is probably the main cause of your inconsistency: Dirt. Those tubes that hold the control yokes get filthy dirty with grease and grime. Right when you're in the flare, they'll stick just enough to ruin a nice landing. So clean 'em off. After you get all the crap off, lube 'em up with something like Pledge or silicone spray. They ought to slide in and out with no resistance whatsoever. Keep in mind, too, the control wheel comes "up" as it comes back during the flare. You have to lift your arm as you pull back, i.e., rotate at the shoulder not just the elbow.

FlyBoyAndy said:
We will not even discuss my last crosswind landing.
Click to expand...
Not a lot of rudder on the Cherokees, so in a strong crosswind you might be slightly crabbed as you touch down. That isn't a big problem as long as the upwind gear touches first — it'll tend to straighten out the nose on contact. But as the nose comes down you must neutralize the rudder pedals or you'll be heading for the weeds since the nosewheel is turned as much as the rudder. Oh, and don't "push" the yoke forward or you will become a wheelbarrow and seriously bend metal.
 
Shepherd said:
Hershey bars and short winged Pipers will bite you in the nether regions every chance they get.
Fly the profile.
Click to expand...
As will any airplane or flying machine for that matter. I have found the short winged Piper’s to be quite docile, generally speaking. It’s pretty hard to screw up with them, for the most part. Me thinks they’re even easier to land than a 172, since they handle so much better.
 
I experienced the same as the OP. Learned in a 172, rented Warriors and Archers (both taper wings) and have had a Hershey bar 140 for the last 5 years. The 172 and taper wings seem to float nicely. When the Hershey bar wing is done flying it is DONE with very little transition from sinking to dropping like a rock. I have had many instructors do my annual and those that never flew a Hershey bar I let them land right seat to get the feel of the airplane. Even though I warn them the sudden rock like drop takes them by surprise. What I have learned is to cross the numbers at 80 mph and pull throttle at the flare and low. The plane will shed airspeed quickly like someone put a stop sign in front of it once you begin to raise the nose. Per the POH reducing airspeed 3 mph per notch of flaps puts your airspeed at 76 mph crossing the numbers which bleeds off FAST when raising the nose to flare. Keep your speed up to at least 80 mph before the flare and the touchdown is controllable. The 140 also has a weird anomaly with the yoke. To get full stabilator authority you need to pull back and lift the yoke. Pulling straight back it will bind cheating you out of another 3 inches of up elevator. The PA28s all seem to have this anomaly with the yoke. Occasional silicon spray on the rubber bushing reduces this but it is always there.
 
Pilawt said:
FWIW, Hershey-bar retractables (Lances and pre-'77 Arrows) seem to glide even more steeply than their fixed-gear counterparts.
Click to expand...

Extra drag of the gear doors and (especially) wheel wells. You can actually hear a loud whistle on the ground when an Arrow flies over with its gear down.
 
I fly at Columbia in the California foothills. There are trees and virtually no flat ground anywhere nearby, so I like to stay as high as possible as long as possible. The Cherokee w Hershey wing is perfect for this. Come in very high, full flaps, no power, and pitch up for 55-60. It drops like an elevator until you're in ground effect. Much easier to grease it here than the Cessna's i used to rent.
 
O22 is a favorite spot of mine, a bit of a hike from Montgomery MYF but a great spot to camp for the weekend

If you get lucky you will see Cal Fire there doing practice runs in their OV-10s
 
Totally agree with suggestions of flaps.
It really helps.
 
Something I found helped in both an Archer and the Lance I currently fly is to make incremental power adjustments all the way from turning final to touchdown. Ideally you turn final and just keep pulling power a little bit at a time all the way to touchdown. Check airspeed, altitude&descent angle, assess and make a small power or trim adjustment. Assess again and adjust as needed... all the way in. Trim for airspeed, power for altitude & sink rate.

When you're over the runway a few feet off and you hit that ground effect, level the airplane off and hold it until you feel your butt start to sink, then flare.

Works for me.
 
For me, I don't worry about the speed so much. I just do the recommended short approach speed and then try to be out of back elevator when I touch down on the mains. Make sure you're looking at the right spot out the window so you can coordinate being out of elevator and the wheels touching the runway at the same time. Of course if it is a short field, you have to consider that you can't float forever. But if you have the right speed and no tail wind, you won't.

How much elevator is left when the mains touch?
 
Tantalum said:
O22 is a favorite spot of mine, a bit of a hike from Montgomery MYF but a great spot to camp for the weekend

If you get lucky you will see Cal Fire there doing practice runs in their OV-10s
Click to expand...
And its got a well maintained grass runway next to the campground! Sometimes CalFire will bomb the grass runway with water for practice.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top