Here is potentially why GA is doomed

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The bar and club scene is 'doomed' too.
Music is 'doomed'.

My theory is that people are living vicariously via YouTube. People are no longer adventurous or curious because they can just watch someone else do it on YouTube.
 
denverpilot said:
Heh. Yeah. It’s entertaining to watch hopolophobes from afar. Keep them there, if you can. :)

One of the local DPEs owns a gun store specializing in popular “tactical” gear.

I noticed a clerical error in my logbook by another local CFI and called him to see if we could meet up to get it fixed, and he asked if I could meet him at the range near the airport that afternoon, since he was going shooting with a different DPE. LOL.

Would be fun to get them in the same room and see if one is a Glock fan and the other isn’t. Hahahaha. Or some such other standard shooting sports enthusiast arguments...
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40 vs 9 (answer 10mm)
 
steingar said:
Minibike:
Honda grom
2017_Grom_370x246_PearlWhite_FFF.jpg

Kawasaki Z125
17_BR125J_GN2_RS_OR.png

Small bikes:
Yamaha Vstar 250
img.jpg

Honda Rebel 300
2017_Rebel300_600x400_MatteSilverMetallic_trans.png

Kawasaki Ninja 300
5m5bptp1.t55.png

Honda CBR 300
Honda%20CBR300R%2014.jpg


And I am only scratching the surface, and haven't even started with scooters. There are literally tons of small displacement inexpensive bikes available on the North American Market. Moreover, most bikes depreciate over time (Harleys are about the only ones that don't, though as the Baby Boomers age out that may change). Bikes can be had more inexpensively than ever (I just sold a Goldwing from the 80's for $1200). With apologies, those claiming there aren't enough small displacement bikes and minibikes simply do not know what they're talking about.
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Yes, there are lots of nice small bikes, but it's nothing like the early 70s. Most minibikes then were frame type, with lawnmower engines, centrifugal clutches, and a rear scrub brake. Pretty inexpensive. Every department store and hardware store sold them. JC Penney and Sears both had several models in their Christmas catalogs every year. Kits were available so you could build your own.

Many of the kids I grew up with had one. They were much more common than today.

My dad and I built mine from a junkyard frame and a motor harvested from a commercial paint shaker.
 
MadseasoN said:
The bar and club scene is 'doomed' too.
Music is 'doomed'.
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Both of those were truly saved by Uber and Lyft. Obviously most of us remember when that “scene” meant too many people drinking and driving. But those businesses seem to be doing just fine with a fleet of Ubers outside at the end of the concert or at closing time. Nobody likes a smelly Yellow Cab.

Thing about Uber and Lyft is that cab companies could have killed them off early on by simply offering better vehicles and better service. But they couldn’t be bothered to upgrade their customer experience.

The other thing that’s come along lately is House Concerts, and those are awesome. Why spend $100 a ticket to sit 500 rows back and watch your favorite band on giaganto-vision when you can spend less or even donate the full $100 to someone who invites bands into their home for charity events and sit three feet from them on the couch?

Sure, go to the big venue once in a while for the loudness if it’s a rock band, but the intimate setting of a House Concert is way better the majority of the time. (And around here if you’re going to a big venue, it’s worth it, since it’s likely Red Rocks... screw concerts at places like Pepsi Center and other arenas... sound sucks, seating sucks... yuck...)

Same thing with music festivals that last for many days ... way better than the typical giant venue. Meet the bands, quite often multiple venues and open seating... Same thing with music cruises...

Bars and clubs, I see no real lack of people wanting to drink in public in our downtown and other club areas...

Hey let’s throw another one out here that’ll get people riled up more...

People introduced to flying via Cirrus aircraft (or anything resembling new) seem to be quite a bit more excited about it even though they’re paying MORE to fly those... just sayin’... it seems to be true.

Some guy who was shopping 182s recently around here, started in Cirri... was looking for a restart 182 used with a decent interior and not a 70s beater... go figure. Something that resembled his 90s pickup truck rather than his grandparent’s kitchen color scheme. :)

Cirrus does at least understand marketing... it’s the same thing that draws people to Uber/Lyft over a smelly Yellow Cab.
 
cowman said:
The issue is cost and that most of them are a younger group just starting out in their careers or just coming out of a major recession. Sure, if you make it a priority you can afford it but how many people with no previous exposure are going to put in the training, time, study, and money... close to $10,000? and that's just the training so you can start doing what you got into it. These are people with little discretionary income, little free time, and often starting out with a pile of debt from school. If they were all out buying airplanes and flying lessons that would make them financially irresponsible if anything..
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It's more than that. I live in an area filled with 10s of thousands of millennials who all earn over $100k and most of them earn over $150k.

Go to the marina - filled with millennials. Ski resorts - filled with millennials. Race tracks - filled with millennials. Golf courses - filled with millennials. But at the airport? Looks like a scene from Cocoon.

I'm willing to bet that the average age of a person playing Bridge here is younger than the average age of the GA Pilot.

Maybe some of that has to do with the fact that you need to almost be a millionaire to buy a flashy new SR22, but I don't think so. Most people can't afford a brand new yacht either but there's still a big draw to the water.

I think more important is the lack of GA in pop culture. The only references most kids have with GA are when people kill themselves. The only recent big movie that I know that feature GA in any way is American Made - which is a period piece - something that people 'used to do'. I don't think I've ever seen a SR22 or any other modern SEP aircraft with a glass cockpit in either a movie or TV show. Not arguing Glass is better, but it will be more attractive and familiar to kids. Heck, you could see Tesla Roadsters in movies back in 2008. You want to revive GA? Create a "Fast and the Furious" like franchise featuring modern GA.
 
redhandle said:
You want to revive GA? Create a "Fast and the Furious" like franchise featuring modern GA.
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LOL. That’d revive GA in a very scary way. Maybe add another canard wing on to a Cirrus for more “downforce” to allow that castering nosewheel to drift? LOL.

Pop a bigger turbo on your SR22T and a fart muffler? LOL LOL LOL.
 
My two cents, which I'm sure no one will agree with. General Aviation will survive, but not in a way any of us will recognize. (Or approve of.) What kills it (along with the economy, of course) is the cost and the FAA. The FAA over-regulates private GA, thus driving the cost of equipment up, and interfering with the development of technologies that make flying small aircraft safer. We are tied to ancient tech, ancient methodologies, and ancient teaching methods, all because of bureaucracy that, while necessary to protect the public from commercial operators who would care more about profits than safety, is not necessary to protect us from ourselves.

Eventually, small personal aircraft will all but fly itself. Like drones, they will take off and land vertically. You will get in, enter your destination, and press a button, then enjoy the ride. There will be opportunities for you to fly them manually, perhaps in unpopulated areas, but for the most part, you'll be a passenger with training that bears little resemblance to today's private pilot curriculum. Only commercial pilots will be taught to actually 'fly', and only to act as backups to automation, in order to make the passengers feel 'safer'.

I for one, am quite happy that self-driving cars will probably be mainstream by the time I am too old to continue driving myself around. It will give me a lot better quality of life. I pray that I'll be able to get into my own little automated flying machine that will take me someplace further, in comfort and safety, but as long as the FAA is still around, that ain't gonna happen in my lifetime.

I'm just glad I get a chance to actually fly before it all becomes automated by requirement, rather than by choice.
 
redhandle said:
It's more than that. I live in an area filled with 10s of thousands of millennials who all earn over $100k and most of them earn over $150k.

Go to the marina - filled with millennials. Ski resorts - filled with millennials. Race tracks - filled with millennials. Golf courses - filled with millennials. But at the airport? Looks like a scene from Cocoon.

I'm willing to bet that the average age of a person playing Bridge here is younger than the average age of the GA Pilot.

Maybe some of that has to do with the fact that you need to almost be a millionaire to buy a flashy new SR22, but I don't think so. Most people can't afford a brand new yacht either but there's still a big draw to the water.

I think more important is the lack of GA in pop culture. The only references most kids have with GA are when people kill themselves. The only recent big movie that I know that feature GA in any way is American Made - which is a period piece - something that people 'used to do'. I don't think I've ever seen a SR22 or any other modern SEP aircraft with a glass cockpit in either a movie or TV show. Not arguing Glass is better, but it will be more attractive and familiar to kids. Heck, you could see Tesla Roadsters in movies back in 2008. You want to revive GA? Create a "Fast and the Furious" like franchise featuring modern GA.
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there's some truth to this, but at our airport, there's a lot of 20 somethings (CFIs) and folks in their 30's in tech jobs that are learning to fly. the difference is, most of the planes are owned by older folks (50's and older). I know a lot of pilots under 45, but almost all the owners I know are over 50 at my workplace for example. i'm trying to break that trend :)
 
I'm no friend of the FAA, but I'm not so sure the assassination of Primary Non-Commercial category wasn't a marching order the bought and paid for FAA had to follow through on by their corporate masters during their already-belated implementation of the law as signed by President Obama in 2013. The provision was in the ARC document, yet the implementation absolutely ghosted it.

I'm certainly not cool with the weak sauce nature to the bill, considering it gave the FAA that kind of carte blanche authority to cherry pick what they wanted in the final formulation. I'm just not ready to lay 100% blame on the bureaucracy when in our form of present government, private oligarchies own and steer these so-called levers of power. I don't think we have too many FAA strategic policy type critters lurking on here, but if there are, it would be interesting to see what exactly were the internal politics that led the FAA to extra-judicially shoot primary non-commercial in head Ernesto Guevara style.
 
Half Fast said:
Yes, there are lots of nice small bikes, but it's nothing like the early 70s. Most minibikes then were frame type, with lawnmower engines, centrifugal clutches, and a rear scrub brake. Pretty inexpensive. Every department store and hardware store sold them. JC Penney and Sears both had several models in their Christmas catalogs every year. Kits were available so you could build your own.

Many of the kids I grew up with had one. They were much more common than today.

My dad and I built mine from a junkyard frame and a motor harvested from a commercial paint shaker.
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yah my brother bought one for his kid:
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Monster-Moto-79-5cc-Youth-Mini-Bike-in-Black-MMB80B/205359176


edit: oooh didn't notice the cheaper one, for $250
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Monster-Moto-Electric-24-Volt-Youth-Mini-Bike-MM-E250/205360588
 
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Video gaming steals from a lot of these hobbies and sports. Not because laziness but because the ease of entry to fun ratio is insane. I can hop on a moba, get queued into a twitch streamers game, play my butt off for 30-60 min in an intensely competitive game with shot calls and skillshots that rely on milliseconds for reaction time and in depth game knowledge so focused your sweating. There might be 100s or 1000s of people watching its this big social event with its own culture of pogchamps, monkaS, memes, ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ give diretide༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つAMENO. Each game can have the frustration of being outplayed, rage at throws, or the triumph of going off with a hyper carry 1v4, or winning your lane, or getting that 2v1 clutch in CSGO etc. And the only thing it cost me.....Nothing... I play when I want with who i want I can tryhard or go for a meme game I can dedicate my afternoon to it or just play a round of CSGO.

I could ride a bike by myself might drag one or two others along but they can't ride for more than an hour or they are way faster/slower, I could spend 150$ an hour boring holes with a 172 and I do all those things because I love them but doing that sell is hard with new people. Even myself sometimes its hard to do those things, I could go fly but I have friends texting saying "we on CoD lets go". I could go to the airport maybe run into the old guy running the fbo have an awkward interaction with the mx guys looking at me wondering why i'm in the hangar go out do some landings or sight see. Or I could flick on my monitor pull up discord and 45 seconds later be laughing with friends.
 
Half Fast said:
Yes, there are lots of nice small bikes, but it's nothing like the early 70s. Most minibikes then were frame type, with lawnmower engines, centrifugal clutches, and a rear scrub brake. Pretty inexpensive. Every department store and hardware store sold them. JC Penney and Sears both had several models in their Christmas catalogs every year. Kits were available so you could build your own.

Many of the kids I grew up with had one. They were much more common than today.

My dad and I built mine from a junkyard frame and a motor harvested from a commercial paint shaker.
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...and come to think of it, the modern day equivalent looks a lot more like this:
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Razor-MX350-24-Volt-Dirt-Rocket-Electric-Motocross-Bike/37079971

9a844b0c-33a2-44f7-9f63-649dbf004130_1.5abc37c3a9a4fd2fd5e31a57a667a2ea.jpeg


No suspension, like the old school hard frame and wheels setup. They are cheap and kinda carpy; but electric, no gas. This makes it easier for the kids to go back and forth on the same street as they learn, without driving the neighbors crazy.
 
falconkidding said:
Video gaming steals from a lot of these hobbies and sports. Not because laziness but because the ease of entry to fun ratio is insane. I can hop on a moba, get queued into a twitch streamers game, play my butt off for 30-60 min in an intensely competitive game with shot calls and skillshots that rely on milliseconds for reaction time and in depth game knowledge so focused your sweating. There might be 100s or 1000s of people watching its this big social event with its own culture of pogchamps, monkaS, memes, ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ give diretide༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つAMENO. Each game can have the frustration of being outplayed, rage at throws, or the triumph of going off with a hyper carry 1v4, or winning your lane, or getting that 2v1 clutch in CSGO etc. And the only thing it cost me.....Nothing... I play when I want with who i want I can tryhard or go for a meme game I can dedicate my afternoon to it or just play a round of CSGO.
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The twitch games got boring in my thirties. Mostly because there’s always a teenager who a) spends all their time twitching and practices more than anyone with a job can and b) can twitch faster than you can because there not old, in all of the online gaming places.

You can stave this off by playing with smart teammates for a while, but eventually you just get your asses kicked all the time.

The twitch games have very little longevity as you age.

Technically they’re also not truly free, but they’re cheap. We have Devs at work who spend hundreds a month on games as best as I can tell. (And constantly complain about low quality ones, after they’ve spent their money.) It’s their “thing” and no big deal, but they never seem to leave the house much. It’s a spectrum, and there’s some who never seem to go anywhere but home and work and others who mix it up quite a bit more.

I’d be bored to death if all I did was go home and play games all night and then back to write code all day. Pays the bills but ugh. No thanks.

They go nuts over the annual Steam sale. I’ve picked up a few games then, too, but it’s an event for the hard core gamers. They toss a lot of money out on that one.

They all definitely got outside more when Pokémon Go was a thing. LOL. They’d go wandering up the block or out onto the office lawn during lunch. That whole thing seems to have faded now.

I just kinda cringe when I hear the stuff they say they bought because I count up the dollars each one costs in my head and think of other stuff I could do with monthly cash flow like that. Then again, they’re always surprised when I disappear for a week or two for a trip somewhere or go camping. They don’t do that sort of thing much. I doubt they go anywhere on purpose where there’s no Internet access.
 
If GA is indeed dying (and I'm not convinced), it's due to many many factors, not just one. But I'll toss another one into the mix. I'm a new pilot, only a month or so beyond my checkride, so my experience of entry into aviation is fresh.

When I began considering flight training, I started by speaking with a few folks I know at work who are pilots. I did lots of websurfing, and I went to Sun-N-Fun and looked at lots of planes and spoke with instructors and got info about a few flight schools. All well and good.

I also stopped in a local bookstore and bought a few aviation magazines, Flying and Plane & Pilot in particular. These magazines seem to have about half their content comprised of accident reports, lessons learned from close calls, advice on how to improve safety, articles on collision avoidance, and "I Was Almost Killed..." horror stories. Yes, learning is important and improving safety is important, but these popular press magazines are sure to scare the bejeezus out of a prospective new pilot.

Many folks say the risk in GA is comparable to that in motorcycling. If I pick up a popular bike mag, there might be a short article or two about riding in the rain or being safe in traffic, but the magazine will consist mainly of "fun" stories about great places to ride, motosports, reviews of bikes and gear, etc.

For a potential new student, who is already hearing from family members that flying is dangerous and expensive and they wish the newbie would choose a different hobby, these magazines don't help matters. Especially if one's nervous spouse picks one up from the coffee table and leafs through it.

A shift in emphasis in the popular flying magazines would be nice. Right now they're doing a crappy job of making aviation appealing to the public. More stories about great flights and destinations, and fewer "I Coulda Died..." stories would be nice. These are the mags that are on the racks in bookstores and newstands, and they're what the non-flying, but interested, public looks at.

We need to change that public perception.
 
First gear, its all right
Second gear, lean right
Third gear, hang on tight
Honda...
 
denverpilot said:
The twitch games got boring in my thirties. Mostly because there’s always a teenager who a) spends all their time twitching and practices more than anyone with a job can and b) can twitch faster than you can because there not old, in all of the online gaming places.

You can stave this off by playing with smart teammates for a while, but eventually you just get your asses kicked all the time.

The twitch games have very little longevity as you age.

Technically they’re also not truly free, but they’re cheap. We have Devs at work who spend hundreds a month on games as best as I can tell. (And constantly complain about low quality ones, after they’ve spent their money.) It’s their “thing” and no big deal, but they never seem to leave the house much. It’s a spectrum, and there’s some who never seem to go anywhere but home and work and others who mix it up quite a bit more.

I’d be bored to death if all I did was go home and play games all night and then back to write code all day. Pays the bills but ugh. No thanks.

They go nuts over the annual Steam sale. I’ve picked up a few games then, too, but it’s an event for the hard core gamers. They toss a lot of money out on that one.

They all definitely got outside more when Pokémon Go was a thing. LOL. They’d go wandering up the block or out onto the office lawn during lunch. That whole thing seems to have faded now.

I just kinda cringe when I hear the stuff they say they bought because I count up the dollars each one costs in my head and think of other stuff I could do with monthly cash flow like that. Then again, they’re always surprised when I disappear for a week or two for a trip somewhere or go camping. They don’t do that sort of thing much. I doubt they go anywhere on purpose where there’s no Internet access.
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Yeah I get that, probably why I play less FPS stuff and more mobas now where its more game knowledge than "can I put this dot on their head in 30ms faster than the other guy". I guess some people spend a lot lucky for me I just do PVP games so most of those are free2play. I think i've spent 9.99 on rocket league and 4.99 on CSGO. A lot in electricity though since my PC is a powerhog.
 
cowman said:
I am technically a Millenial although just barely.... and I say that because after reading all this Millenial-knocking comments and articles I was surprised to find I was in that group. So i guess hi I'm here, I fly.
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I'm I millennial too. How kewl is that? (jk)

I know a fair amount of people in our age group that definitely fit the millennial sterotype to the T. But I also know people like us, that don't; they own houses, they work hard, and many of them fly

I do think that some of the parenting of the 90s, of the whole everybody's a winner and nobody's a loser and a lot of the helicopter parenting has undoubtedly created a new group of people that prefer safety, comfort, and general luxuries, and have come to expect that as just a part of life. I feel like I'm the only one in my group who pays my on cell phone bill or that I paid for my own first car, etc

However, I do think the cards are also stacked against us, so I don't think all the whining is just there for the sake of "I want my trophy today," let me Snapchat this quick

In tge 1970s and 1980s a college degree was not expected, there were plenty of respectable blue collar jobs, and many employers, even private ones, offered handsome pension packages, aggressive 401K matches, the whole gambit

Today, a college degree is a assumed. In fact I'm one of the few people in my peer group who does not have an advanced degree or a masters in
something. And, if you spend a little bit of time on indeed.com you will find that any job approaching the six-figure mark generally requires a long list of qualifications and years of experience.. plus, the cost of education now is absolutely absurd. People are entering the workforce in their mid to early twenties with a half a million dollars in debt. It is no surprise that so many people move back in with their parents, when their monthly student loan payment is that of a mortgage

So, yes, I think some inherently risky Hobbies like flying and motorcycling is going to decrease as a result of a generally more risk-averse culture, but I also think that the cost of a lot of hobbies simply push people out of the running. I haven't met anybody who didn't think flying was really cool, but when I tell people that a license would realistically cost 7 to $15,000 that pretty much stops the conversation
.
 
StevieTimes said:
Because everything is like, doomed, man.

Check out this report on how motorcycling is doomed:
http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-motorcycle-summit-20171214-story.html

It's pretty interesting, and I couldn't help but draw parallels to flying little airplanes around. It's not apples to apples, but some of it applies, I think.

Golf courses that were around my whole life have closed around here too. A major country club closed down, literally open my whole life.

Motorcycles don't have to be expensive, and some can be insured pretty cheaply too. A guy could save on gas money during the spring, summer, and fall to maybe make up for the money paid in insurance (depending on the bike).

I always thought with population growing, even if we dropped from 7% interested to 5% interested, the sheer volume would make up for the loss of percentage.

Why are so many interests suffering? What is the connection?
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Two words, in really big letters:

DISPOSABLE INCOME

The destruction of the middle class through relentless outforcing caused by higher taxes and insane gov regulation has strangled the economy.
A brand new basic equipped Cessna 172 in 1972 was 2-2.5 times the average yearly salary. Today, it is 8-9 times the average salary.

Add in things like UNLIMITED CIVIL LIABILITY, and the writing is on the wall. Thankfully, we have begun to at least stem that tide, if not turn it around.
 
FlyingElvii said:
T
The destruction of the middle class through relentless outforcing caused by higher taxes and insane gov regulation has strangled the economy.
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This seems to be the most common opinion, but I don't think it's the real explanation. Consider

https://qz.com/1005068/the-upper-middle-class-is-the-new-middle-class/
The middle class shrank by 11 percentage points over this period. The ranks of lower-earning groups rose by four percentage points. A larger share joined higher-earnings groups—a seven percentage-point increase since the early 1970s. The upper class, defined as households earning at least three times the median income, accounted for five percentage points of the increase. American incomes may be growing more unequal, but there are also more high earners than before.
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Yes, the middle class is shrinking, but more people are moving UPWARD out of the middle class than DOWNWARD. This should mean more disposable income. The cost of new planes has risen all out of proportion, but there are lots of good used aircraft at decent prices and planes can be rented or bought by clubs.
 
Half Fast said:
This seems to be the most common opinion, but I don't think it's the real explanation. Consider

https://qz.com/1005068/the-upper-middle-class-is-the-new-middle-class/


Yes, the middle class is shrinking, but more people are moving UPWARD out of the middle class than DOWNWARD. This should mean more disposable income. The cost of new planes has risen all out of proportion, but there are lots of good used aircraft at decent prices and planes can be rented or bought by clubs.
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It isn't any ONE thing, it is a combination.
Much of it is the result of political consequences, but by no means all.
Among those, we now build tall fences now around GA airports with big signs that say "Keep OUT!" to kids who look longingly at the sky, and the planes, like I once did.
 
FlyingElvii said:
Among those, we now build tall fences now around GA airports with big signs that say "Keep OUT!" to kids who look longingly at the sky, and the planes, like I once did.
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Largely true, but my home airport isn't fenced and there still aren't any curious kids hanging around. As you say, it isn't any ONE thing, but a combination of many things.

Heck, there haven't even been any good aviation movies in many years, let alone TV. Where's a modern Sky King when you need him? :)
 
Half Fast said:
Largely true, but my home airport isn't fenced and there still aren't any curious kids hanging around. As you say, it isn't any ONE thing, but a combination of many things.

Heck, there haven't even been any good aviation movies in many years, let alone TV. Where's a modern Sky King when you need him? :)
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...are you asking @SixPapaCharlie to make a new film...?

I'll do the intro:

"In a world...
where humans...
can fly..."

(airplane goes zooming by camera)

"From Paramount Pictures comes
the story of a man
who would one day become
the king of the sky"

(more exciting scenes)
@SixPapaCharlie passionately kissing what we believe to be a human female
(more exciting scenes, going faster, building to a crescendo)

BLACK SCREEN

pause.

child's voice: "the magic is happening...!"

BOOM plane again zooms by camera

and more exciting scenes
 
Half Fast said:
Largely true, but my home airport isn't fenced and there still aren't any curious kids hanging around. As you say, it isn't any ONE thing, but a combination of many things.

Heck, there haven't even been any good aviation movies in many years, let alone TV. Where's a modern Sky King when you need him? :)
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I beg your pardon!

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1907668/

:rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
Just skimming so I may have missed it....

So why is GA dying?
I do see a good case about motorcycles.
But.... I did only skim. May have missed it.
 
Kritchlow said:
Just skimming so I may have missed it....

So why is GA dying?
I do see a good case about motorcycles.
But.... I did only skim. May have missed it.
Click to expand...

Summary - millenials, iPhones, video games, money, millenials, money, money, fenced airports, millenials.
 
StevieTimes said:
Because everything is like, doomed, man.

Check out this report on how motorcycling is doomed:
http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-motorcycle-summit-20171214-story.html

It's pretty interesting, and I couldn't help but draw parallels to flying little airplanes around. It's not apples to apples, but some of it applies, I think.

Golf courses that were around my whole life have closed around here too. A major country club closed down, literally open my whole life.

Motorcycles don't have to be expensive, and some can be insured pretty cheaply too. A guy could save on gas money during the spring, summer, and fall to maybe make up for the money paid in insurance (depending on the bike).

I always thought with population growing, even if we dropped from 7% interested to 5% interested, the sheer volume would make up for the loss of percentage.

Why are so many interests suffering? What is the connection?
Click to expand...
People have this odd idea that the fact that an activity is shrinking in numbers automatically means that the activity is "doomed." It certainly hasn't worked out that way with horses.

U.S horse population:

1915 - 20 million
1959 - 4.5 million
2005 - 9 million

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horses_in_the_United_States#Statistics
 
Palmpilot said:
People have this odd idea that the fact that an activity is shrinking in numbers automatically means that the activity is "doomed." It certainly hasn't worked out that way with horses.

U.S horse population:

1915 - 20 million
1959 - 4.5 million
2005 - 9 million

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horses_in_the_United_States#Statistics
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Based solely on my personal bank account, equestrian expenditures have been on a logarithmic increase for the last 24.5 years. Ever since my wedding.
 
The one time I added up all my aviation expenses for the year I realized I could take a jet pretty much wherever I wanted to go on a nearly monthly basis.
 
steingar said:
The one time I added up all my aviation expenses for the year I realized I could take a jet pretty much wherever I wanted to go on a nearly monthly basis.
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We did this with our vacation house. Realized that the Ritz Carlton would be cheaper and we wouldn't have to do laundry.
 
denverpilot said:
Both of those were truly saved by Uber and Lyft. Obviously most of us remember when that “scene” meant too many people drinking and driving. But those businesses seem to be doing just fine with a fleet of Ubers outside at the end of the concert or at closing time. Nobody likes a smelly Yellow Cab.

Thing about Uber and Lyft is that cab companies could have killed them off early on by simply offering better vehicles and better service. But they couldn’t be bothered to upgrade their customer experience.

The other thing that’s come along lately is House Concerts, and those are awesome. Why spend $100 a ticket to sit 500 rows back and watch your favorite band on giaganto-vision when you can spend less or even donate the full $100 to someone who invites bands into their home for charity events and sit three feet from them on the couch?

Sure, go to the big venue once in a while for the loudness if it’s a rock band, but the intimate setting of a House Concert is way better the majority of the time. (And around here if you’re going to a big venue, it’s worth it, since it’s likely Red Rocks... screw concerts at places like Pepsi Center and other arenas... sound sucks, seating sucks... yuck...)

Same thing with music festivals that last for many days ... way better than the typical giant venue. Meet the bands, quite often multiple venues and open seating... Same thing with music cruises...

Bars and clubs, I see no real lack of people wanting to drink in public in our downtown and other club areas...

Hey let’s throw another one out here that’ll get people riled up more...

People introduced to flying via Cirrus aircraft (or anything resembling new) seem to be quite a bit more excited about it even though they’re paying MORE to fly those... just sayin’... it seems to be true.

Some guy who was shopping 182s recently around here, started in Cirri... was looking for a restart 182 used with a decent interior and not a 70s beater... go figure. Something that resembled his 90s pickup truck rather than his grandparent’s kitchen color scheme. :)

Cirrus does at least understand marketing... it’s the same thing that draws people to Uber/Lyft over a smelly Yellow Cab.
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I'm a pro musician so I'm playing gigs in either a club or bar at least 2X per month. Uber/Lyft isn't saving the bar scene. It may be saving people from DWI's but it's a fact that more people are staying home these days. Alcohol revenue is significantly down across my entire state, not only for bars with live music but also for bars with no music or prerecorded music. Judging by comments on musician forums and local network I think it's the same everywhere else.
 
MIFlyer said:
yes, but I think that as people get introduced to it, some of them will learn that it's a good way to get some exercise, test your skill, get some fresh air, and hang out with your friends. I was originally a golf hater, but I've come around to it being a pretty great activity if done right.

it's not for everyone, but I think if people discover it, a good percentage will choose to add it to the list of things they do sometimes.
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Golf is fun if you're drunk and driving a golf cart through the woods..
 
UngaWunga said:
Golf is fun if you're drunk and driving a golf cart through the woods..
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When I go out to the cart and find 5 or 6 crushed cans of Bud Light left in the cup holders, I'll know that's what happened. Been awhile since I've been out to the links.
 
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