Help With Motorcycle Law

[Henning]

A lot of gear is "armored" meaning that it has some padding to ameliorate a collision, mostly with the pavement. Most bikers realize they're not wearing a suit of armor. All I can say is your first crash will be your last. If Murphy can get me he can get you too. The difference is mine was more an inconvenience, yours will be debilitating. Your choice, and you are entitled to make it.

I was six years old when I had my first crash, I was 12 when I went through my first m'cycle (actually three wheeler) induced surgery. I've had more crashes than I can possibly count both dirt and road track and am quite aware of the potential consequences. I also know far too many riders who take "armor" literally and ride completely insanely.

 

[etsisk]

That's just it, I tried many different helmets, and I just lost that biaural sound differential, the aerodynamics of the helmet always screwed it up. If you've got a helmet recommendation, I'd love to see it.

Any of the DOT approved half-helmets ... the CHP type. I wore one for 350K miles and it did well by me. Got a liner to keep my ears warm and everything.

(NOT the pseudo-helmet beanie type head coverings with just a little padding inside the shell. I'm NOT talking about those things, here)

 

[etsisk]

I count on luck for nothing. Putting your foot down except at a traffic stop is almost always the incorrect move unless you're riding motocross or flat track, and then I'm wearing boots. If I get myself into a situation I can't throttle out of, well, that's my f-up and I'll pay for it, but then, it doesn't really happen. I'm not saying I always wear shorts, flip flops and a t-shirt, but when I'm riding down to the beach on a nice day, it doesn't scare me one bit to. My main qualm here is that everybody is harping on riding appearal, when the main safety item everybody is ignoring is the mental process. ALWAYS leave a spot to accellerate into ahead, ALWAYS. That is your main point of safety on a motorcycle. Never let your state of energy exceed your stopability, visibility, manuverability or awareness, whichever is least, never. Following those two rules will serve a rider much better than any armour plating. I hear riders refer to their appareal as their armour as well, and that always concerns me because it's a line of thought that can lead to lowering ones guard with feelings of lessened vulnerability. When I'm shirtless in shorts, sunglasses and flip flops, I am keenly aware of my vulnerability and ALL of my surroundings.

That all sounds well and good - but it's wrong. There have been times that a foot down kept a skid on sandy pavement from being a lay-down. Or when the best you can do is take it off road off the shoulder, down and back up the other side of the ditch and off a ways until you can slow her down enough to get stopped and turned around. Feet can help, sometimes there. And however much YOU want that space left open to accelerate, if the car three cars in front of you makes a stupid decision, that door closes without any input from you at all - in other IOW, it ain't always your choice as to whether you have an open door to burn out of or not.

I do agree that you probably feel vulnerable in shorts, t-shirt and flip flops. You ARE vulnerable. Unnecessarily so, in my opinion... but hey, this IS an internet forum, right? All it IS is opinions!

 

[Ghery]

As one who has had his life saved by a helmet, you wouldn't ever catch me on a motorcycle without one. And that accident might have been prevented by more horsepower, but I didn't have it. A Honda 175 with two aboard doesn't accelerate worth beans. 25 mph in 3rd gear and you're so far from the torque peak that it is unobtainable in any reasonable amount of time. Guy runs a stop sign at 30 mph and you get hit. Period. That was just over 34 years ago. Amazing the details one still remembers.

 

[Henning]

That all sounds well and good - but it's wrong. There have been times that a foot down kept a skid on sandy pavement from being a lay-down. Or when the best you can do is take it off road off the shoulder, down and back up the other side of the ditch and off a ways until you can slow her down enough to get stopped and turned around. Feet can help, sometimes there. And however much YOU want that space left open to accelerate, if the car three cars in front of you makes a stupid decision, that door closes without any input from you at all - in other IOW, it ain't always your choice as to whether you have an open door to burn out of or not.

I do agree that you probably feel vulnerable in shorts, t-shirt and flip flops. You ARE vulnerable. Unnecessarily so, in my opinion... but hey, this IS an internet forum, right? All it IS is opinions!

Sigh... Let's call it a difference in personal philosophies. I trust in my abilities and act in manners that please me. Will that cause me pain, yep, it sure has in the past, but in the yin and yang of things, I'm still yinning.
Will it get me killed one day? I sure hope so, I'd much rather die of something I enjoy than one of the multitudes of industrial diseases I've got coming my way. We'll all die one day, I'm not pareticularly fearful of the dying thing, I've enjoyed my life, and if I die todoay, I'll have few regrets because there have been a bare few things that I have wanted to do that I haven't done. I'm not out to die today, (but if the weather gets much sloppier out here off New Jersey, I might need a kidney. ) but I don't live my life in an all costs manner of avoidance either. When it's my turn to die, I will, simple as that.

 

[steingar]

Henning, in that philosophy I don't disagree with you. When its time to go, its time to go, and I won't let fear of the reaper stop me from doing things I love. But I will allow fear of the reaper to convince me to do those things as safely as I can. As I said, to each his own.

 

[SkyHog]

Don't they recognize the MSF courses there? Here in Nebraska you go and
take the MSF course (the community college gives it .. the harley dealer
gives it) and then you take the card that you passed to DMV and they
put the M on your driver's license. I'd had the M on mine years ago and
then didn't ride for a few years and somehow they dropped it off of
there, probably when they computerized everything. So .. I went
and took the 2 1/2 day course because I thought a review would be
good anyway. It was fun. That was that.

To be honest though .. I just rode without it for about 4 months till
they started up the classes for the season.

RT

Yeah, they do accept MSF in lieu of the ridecheck and written test, but I cannot get time away from work to do the MSF right now. I plan on getting the endorsement, and then signing up for the MSF when I can get away from work. Then a friend of mine and I are gonna do the advanced MSF as well. She's cool, my riding buddy of sorts.

 

[ScottM]

As one who has had his life saved by a helmet, you wouldn't ever catch me on a motorcycle without one. And that accident might have been prevented by more horsepower, but I didn't have it. A Honda 175 with two aboard doesn't accelerate worth beans. 25 mph in 3rd gear and you're so far from the torque peak that it is unobtainable in any reasonable amount of time. Guy runs a stop sign at 30 mph and you get hit. Period. That was just over 34 years ago. Amazing the details one still remembers.

A helmet also saved my life. I did not walk away from the crash nor did I actually walk for three months but I eventually did re-learn how to walk.

I was southbound on A1A coming home form work when I had my crash. The end of the crash was me going headfirst thru a plywood sign. I ended up with 22 cervical fractures. C2 was in three piece and C1 was in so many pieces there was fear it would never heal. The helmet absorbed just enough energy to keep my alive, without I would not be here today. I swear by helmets.

The funny thing was that my roommate used to give me crap about my $150 helmet. This was 1980 so that was a lot of money for one. He would brag that he only spent $30 on his at K-Mart. I used to rib back that if you got a $30 head then b y all means get a $30 helmet. After my accident he and two other guys I rode with upgraded their helmets.

I wore a full face helmet and found that I could hear better than without. The wind noise causes one to only hear that instead of real sounds. I liked the full face because it stopped even more wind noise. But it was warm at times in FL wearing one. But it was worth it.

 

[fgcason]

I wore a full face helmet and found that I could hear better than without. The wind noise causes one to only hear that instead of real sounds. I liked the full face because it stopped even more wind noise.

I was playing around in a state park a while back without the helmet just out of curiousity. Wind noise drowns everything out. Up to about 15mph I could hear better without the helmet due to minimal wind noise. Above that I could hear considerably better with ear plugs and a full face helmet even with the visor down, chin curtain and breath guard in place.

Helmet or not, wind noise wipes your hearing out. Just the helmet for 15 minutes at any kind of speed without earplugs and my ears are ringing for a long time. Add ear plugs, chin curtain and breath guard to the helmet and I can ride all day with little/no hearing side effects.

But it was warm at times in FL wearing one. But it was worth it.

...especially if you end up calmly sliding along on your nose watching the 4-grit belt sander grinding away on the other side of the visor and chin guard.

 

[Henning]

I was playing around in a state park a while back without the helmet just out of curiousity. Wind noise drowns everything out.

Wind noise IS the indicator. When a car comes withing about 3 ft of you behind or to the side of you the pressure wave they are pushing causes a disturbance in the wind noise, that's how I know Mr/Ms 4 Oclock is trying to kill me, the change in the wind noise.

 

[etsisk]

But why are you not scanning using your mirrors and glancing over your shoulders while in traffic? They shouldn't be that close without you having known about it 30' ago!

 

[Ghery]

A helmet also saved my life. I did not walk away from the crash nor did I actually walk for three months but I eventually did re-learn how to walk.

I was southbound on A1A coming home form work when I had my crash. The end of the crash was me going headfirst thru a plywood sign. I ended up with 22 cervical fractures. C2 was in three piece and C1 was in so many pieces there was fear it would never heal. The helmet absorbed just enough energy to keep my alive, without I would not be here today. I swear by helmets.

The funny thing was that my roommate used to give me crap about my $150 helmet. This was 1980 so that was a lot of money for one. He would brag that he only spent $30 on his at K-Mart. I used to rib back that if you got a $30 head then b y all means get a $30 helmet. After my accident he and two other guys I rode with upgraded their helmets.

I wore a full face helmet and found that I could hear better than without. The wind noise causes one to only hear that instead of real sounds. I liked the full face because it stopped even more wind noise. But it was warm at times in FL wearing one. But it was worth it.

You got beat up even worse than us. I had a cast on my leg for 6 weeks, then a bunch of physical therapy to get to where I could walk without a cane. My wife had a cast on her leg for about 6 months. That was 34 years ago and my ankle still reminds me about it. But that 6 inch line of curb paint on the helmet told me loud and clear why I was still alive.

 

[Henning]

But why are you not scanning using your mirrors and glancing over your shoulders while in traffic? They shouldn't be that close without you having known about it 30' ago!

You have obviously never lived and ridden in LA traffic. There are 6 lanes or more in each direction, mirrors have a very limited field of view and primary attention has to be in front because everyone is a freakin moron changing lanes while on the brake pedal constantly causing accidents.

 

[Unbeliever]

I wear a full face helmet AND earplugs AND full gear AND split in Los Angeles traffic.

I can make an unqualified statement that in my experience, you can definitely hear the car next to you change lanes into yours, at 15 mph AND at 80 mph. And I've had plenty as I've moved past. I've put my boot in a couple of door panels to get their attention.

And if you can see the left and right edges of your helmet visor opening in your peripheral vision, your helmet is either too small, or on your head crooked.

Yes, there are a lot of accidents that gear won't help--slide into a curb, get run over, get squished, a seriously high highside, etc... but there are also tons of accidents where gear helps. Simple slides, lowsides, etc..

--Carlos V.

 

[etsisk]

You have obviously never lived and ridden in LA traffic. There are 6 lanes or more in each direction, mirrors have a very limited field of view and primary attention has to be in front because everyone is a freakin moron changing lanes while on the brake pedal constantly causing accidents.

No, but I've lived and ridden (or simply ridden) in:
Miami
Boston
NYC
Atlanta
Washington, DC
Chicago
Denver
Memphis
Detroit
etc, etc, etc...

If you set your mirrors correctly, you have a pretty good view of what's going on behind you. It must work, because in over half a million miles of motorcycling I've never been surprised by anyone coming up within 3 or 4 feet of me from behind, as you described. I've seen 'em doing it, and I've been ****ed, but I've never been surprised by it - always saw it coming.

 

[silver-eagle]

A couple of pieces of added safety equipment...
Airbag 1, airbag 2.

Every little bit helps.