Help me get over stall anxiety

Getting good at stalls is a total waste. Use the stall to get good at keeping the airplane flying. Get good at that and you'll never stall an airplane unintentionally.
 
To stall or not to stall, that is the question...

Sorry old Bard for the paraphrasing, but IMHO it's the accelerated stall that needs recovery practice, not straight and level.
 
Ryanb said:
Baffles me as well. The base to final overshoot seems to be the most common scenario. Misjudging a tailwind on base, which pushes you through final and it gets over corrected with too much aft elevator and rudder. Standard rate turns and coordinated flight is key.
Click to expand...

Definitely. If I overshoot final, my instinct is always to dive a little/power up for more airspeed, and use primarily bank angle (with minimal rudder) to realign. Not crazy bank angle, mind you...just enough to get the job done. My instructor really drilled into me that once on base, you are alternately looking at two things....airspeed, runway, airspeed, runway, airspeed, runway. (And other planes that might be in the way. :eek:) For a massive overshoot? Best to take another lap of the pattern.
 
N659HB said:
It's usually an accelerated stall that kills on final, is it not? You overshoot the centerline, then try to tighten it up, then add top rudder, etc. for the classic base-to-final spin. You have to be uncoordinated to spin, so I heartily agree about working the rudder! When my old girl is airworthy again it will be time to practice accelerated stalls, which are a non-event if one is flying coordinated.
Click to expand...

That's not an accelerated stall. It's a skidding stall.

An accelerated stall is when you pull some G's at too low a speed. Not what happens on the base to final spin. At 1.3*Vs0, it would take a 1.6 G (about 50 deg bank when level) turn to have an accelerated stall. Most people fly even faster than that; it's only 61 knots (indicated) in a 172.

The base to final spin happens when someone tries to tighten a turn with excess rudder, and gets slow.
 
MAKG1 said:
That's not an accelerated stall. It's a skidding stall.

An accelerated stall is when you pull some G's at too low a speed. Not what happens on the base to final spin. At 1.3*Vs0, it would take a 1.6 G (about 50 deg bank when level) turn to have an accelerated stall. Most people fly even faster than that; it's only 61 knots (indicated) in a 172.

The base to final spin happens when someone tries to tighten a turn with excess rudder, and gets slow.
Click to expand...

Well, I stand corrected. Who says one can't learn anything useful on PoA? :rolleyes:

And I won't be practicing any of those in the near future. ;)
 
What are you flying? 172 152? If your instructors up to it stall it and just let go of everything and see what happens. You might be surprised.
 
Thanks all for the replies and advice (well most of you :D )

I'm training in a 172.
 
Once you do get some stall practice, go up and do some spins/upset recovery in a machine that breaks a bit more "briskly" than a 172. It'll give you so much confidence, and you might even get hooked and want to get into acro...
 
N659HB said:
... for the classic base-to-final spin. ...
Click to expand...

Classic, no. Over hyped by some CFI like the boogie man, yes

resulting in folks shooting approaches fast enough in their 172s that it would make a F-104 blush.
 
MAKG1 said:
That's not an accelerated stall. It's a skidding stall.

An accelerated stall is when you pull some G's at too low a speed. Not what happens on the base to final spin. At 1.3*Vs0, it would take a 1.6 G (about 50 deg bank when level) turn to have an accelerated stall. Most people fly even faster than that; it's only 61 knots (indicated) in a 172.

The base to final spin happens when someone tries to tighten a turn with excess rudder, and gets slow.
Click to expand...
A base to final stall can happen either way. Just depends on how the pilot tries to correct the overshoot.
 
This is an outstanding video to understand the effect of coordination on stall behavior. Not enough folks fully get the affect that aileron input, or a dropping wing, has on overall AoA.
 
there's a video out there that I can't find. I 'think' it was from dick rochefort but I could be wrong. he's sitting in his office with a little plane explaining in detail the base to final stall/spin. it's a great video. if anyone knows the one I'm talking about, please post it. thx.
 
eman1200 said:
there's a video out there that I can't find. I 'think' it was from dick rochefort but I could be wrong. he's sitting in his office with a little plane explaining in detail the base to final stall/spin. it's a great video. if anyone knows the one I'm talking about, please post it. thx.
Click to expand...

well fk me, it wasn't Rochfort and it was driving me nutz looking for it but I finally found it. also, it doesn't have too much to do with the OP's post, but still a great video and worth sharing (and watching and re-watching).

 
Got back on the horse today, did some stalls and didn't do TOO terrible with them. One I had to ask my CFI to help out because I was screwing up the recovery, but that's what he's there for, right?
 
some good videos showing progress for someone with similar anxiety as yours (and me). its great to see him solo at the end of it.. gives me hope. https://www.youtube.com/user/ronthecompsci/videos

<rant> my school wont let me record my lessons because some moron did recording of his lessons and put it on a public forum without approval from CFI/School </end of rant>
 
Keep doing them until they are a non-issue. And do a lot of slow flight, right on the verge of a stall. Do those with turns, climbs and descents until you are bored. :)
 
GET OVER IT!!!

There. Now go fly and have fun! Flying is supposed to be fun, not scary.:yes:
 
^^^ hard to argue with a burger
 
Video of my flight


Stalls not until around the 12 min mark if you want to fast forward to where the CFI starts demo'ing stalls, mine start around the 16 min mark...and the times of everything are in the description

Don't beat me up too much :D
 
Last edited:
abqtj said:
Video of my flight


Stalls not until around the 12 min mark if you want to fast forward...and the times of everything are in the description

Don't beat me up too much :D
Click to expand...
you looked like a fearless pro who does stall for breakfast. kudos
 
abqtj said:
Video of my flight


Stalls not until around the 12 min mark if you want to fast forward...and the times of everything are in the description

Don't beat me up too much :D
Click to expand...
I like that camera mount position, you can see the instruments and outside in one shot, nice. If it was level it'd be even better.

4th flight, yea, I wouldn't sweat apprehension with stalls, you'll get used to doing them. I was all over the place doing my first power off stalls, I was dropping wings, having the cfi save it. haha. After he demo'd a falling leaf and how to lift the wing with the rudder I got better and never had issues after that.
 
exncsurfer said:
I like that camera mount position, you can see the instruments and outside in one shot, nice. If it was level it'd be even better.

4th flight, yea, I wouldn't sweat apprehension with stalls, you'll get used to doing them. I was all over the place doing my first power off stalls, I was dropping wings, having the cfi save it. haha. After he demo'd a falling leaf and how to lift the wing with the rudder I got better and never had issues after that.
Click to expand...

I gotta get it mounted more securely next time. Not sure if the cold or the maneuvers made the camera drop off the window. Also as for level, might be the fish-eye effect making it look off a little. I'll double-check that next week as well.


WannFly said:
you looked like a fearless pro who does stall for breakfast. kudos
Click to expand...

Thanks, I felt incredibly more confident this flight vs my previous!
 
Thing I noticed was your left hand not on the yoke. Realizing you obviously can stall it that way, I teach left hand on yoke and right hand on the throttle. This is to ensure you have full power during the recovery. Other than that, looked good.
 
mscard88 said:
Thing I noticed was your left hand not on the yoke. Realizing you obviously can stall it that way, I teach left hand on yoke and right hand on the throttle. This is to ensure you have full power during the recovery. Other than that, looked good.
Click to expand...

Not sure when you mean in the vid, I fly left handed. Only time it's not is when the CFI had controls (usually). I do have a bad habit I'm working on of not keeping my right hand on the throttle though.
 
OK, maybe the CFI was doing the stall around 12:30 or so. Thought you were demonstrating it.
 
abqtj, you were doing a great job you will be fine. your instructor on the other hand not so much. i would usually never suggest you change instructors {ask Mully} but 23 minutes with that guy gave me a headache .
 
abqtj said:
Very low-time student pilot (<5 hours).

How can I get it through my head that performing stalls is normal and fine, and everything will work out?

I haven't done them yet, but my instructor demonstrated a bunch during my lesson yesterday. I know I have to do them and logically I know there's nothing to it, but I have a mental block or something. One he showed me what happens in an uncoordinated stall and that one really didn't do me any favors!

Any tips, tricks, things to think about that have helped you in the past? Thanks.
Click to expand...
Learn about flying angle of attack. Takes all the fear out. See my threads.
 
I've seen your thread and watched the video. Painful to try and watch and understand what's going on with that dang LOUD music overpowering everything though.

Thanks anyway I guess.
 
hotprops said:
abqtj, you were doing a great job you will be fine. your instructor on the other hand not so much. i would usually never suggest you change instructors {ask Mully} but 23 minutes with that guy gave me a headache .
Click to expand...

I somewhat agree, although I didn't watch the full video, only the stall parts listed in the description. I wasn't thrilled with his style either but maybe I didn't give him enough time. as for u being nervous......it seems like you haven't gotten the mechanics of the stall down yet. once you do, you'll be far more comfortable (I think) than when you just don't really know what's going on or how to do the stall and recover. I think you're where you should be, and just keep plugging away, you'll get them down in no time.
 
abqtj, you are going to look back at that video someday and marvel at how patient your instructor was with you on those first flights. We ALL did the same things you did, starting with going past the assigned heading and not correcting right away, climbing up 100' past your desired altitude, etc. I didn't see anything in your reaction to the stalls that would tell me that you're terrified of them. It is just something that isn't natural to you ...yet. You'll get used to it to the point of them being fun. One thing that we mountain flyers have that the flatlanders don't is the absence of a good horizon in order to keep that rivet on the nose across the horizon during steep turn training. Ours continually changes as you've probably already found out.
 
Last edited:
Because teaching people to stall is exactly the wrong thing to learn. Your instructor is saying once you hear the stall warning to keep pulling back. Which is exactly the wrong thing you want to do when you hear the stall warning for real. You are learning the wrong muscle memory. They should be teaching you to "push down". When the engine quits. Push down. When the trim is set wrong on take off and the stall warning goes off. Push down.
 
DPE's gotta see it on the check ride and that, to the break (unless you're in a Cherokee...don't get me started), I don't see away around NOT teaching it.
 
yetti said:
Because teaching people to stall is exactly the wrong thing to learn. Your instructor is saying once you hear the stall warning to keep pulling back. Which is exactly the wrong thing you want to do when you hear the stall warning for real. You are learning the wrong muscle memory. They should be teaching you to "push down". When the engine quits. Push down. When the trim is set wrong on take off and the stall warning goes off. Push down.
Click to expand...
The purpose of teaching stalls is how to handle the aircraft when it has stalled, how to recover the stall, and how to keep it from becoming as spin. Students have to learn to suppress the urge to correct a dipping wing with the yoke, and use the rudder. You cannot do this in an unstalled aircraft. Stall avoidance is a different lesson, and is better done in slow flight.
 
Timbeck2 said:
DPE's gotta see it on the check ride and that, to the break (unless you're in a Cherokee...don't get me started), I don't see away around NOT teaching it.
Click to expand...
I'll call any uncommanded pitch motion in a Cherokee a "break," no matter how small. They can be very subtle, and sometimes need a little extra yank to force it. And the stall speed gets real slow in a lightly loaded Archer.
 
Okay..I'll explain. I agree with you and especially when the VSI reads down at 1,000 fpm but my DPE told me that I didn't stall the airplane because it didn't go "all the way to the break" so I did it again with the same results. Only time I about lost my temper on my check ride.
 
N659HB said:
It's usually an accelerated stall that kills on final, is it not? You overshoot the centerline, then try to tighten it up, then add top rudder, etc. for the classic base-to-final spin. You have to be uncoordinated to spin, so I heartily agree about working the rudder! When my old girl is airworthy again it will be time to practice accelerated stalls, which are a non-event if one is flying coordinated.
Click to expand...

MAKG1 said:
That's not an accelerated stall. It's a skidding stall.
Click to expand...

Uh, top rudder is not a skid, bottom rudder is... Just say'n... Either way, skid or slip, and a little loading and you're on your back... to the right or left depends on the slip/skid you chose to ruin your day...
 
FlySince9 said:
Uh, top rudder is not a skid, bottom rudder is... Just say'n... Either way, skid or slip, and a little loading and you're on your back... to the right or left depends on the slip/skid you chose to ruin your day...
Click to expand...
You're right, but you won't "tighten" a turn with top rudder. Quite the opposite.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top