Help me flare

ircphoenix

ircphoenix

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ircphoenix
So... I've been flying my plane around breaking it in. Been landing it like normal literally everywhere I go.

Today I had a CFI in the plane with me and could not flare to save my life. WTF am I doing wrong?

I know none of you was with me, so you couldn't tell me... but tell me about your mistakes that you made, and how you corrected them.

Except for @James331 since we know he's perfect. =D
 
Last time I went into a landing "slump", I tried lowering my seat. It worked great. I'm not sure if that forced me to look further down the runway or what, but it worked.

Of course, that was an Airbus. That is likely irrelevant though.
 
ircphoenix said:
So... I've been flying my plane around breaking it in. Been landing it like normal literally everywhere I go.

Today I had a CFI in the plane with me and could not flare to save my life. WTF am I doing wrong?

I know none of you was with me, so you couldn't tell me... but tell me about your mistakes that you made, and how you corrected them.

Except for @James331 since we know he's perfect. =D
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when you find yourself in a hole...stop digging. you're psyching yourself out trying to impress the CFI. tomorrow will be better.
 
rk911 said:
when you find yourself in a hole...stop digging. you're psyching yourself out trying to impress the CFI. tomorrow will be better.
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Well see... I have my PPL. It just seems my home drome is home of my worst landings... compounded with the mental block of having a new CFI (insurance checkout) next to me screwed with my brain.

Kritchlow said:
Last time I went into a landing "slump", I tried lowering my seat. It worked great. I'm not sure if that forced me to look further down the runway or what, but it worked.

Of course, that was an Airbus. That is likely irrelevant though.
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My plane a teensy bit smaller than yours my friend. =)
 
try a cushion. As I recall you're new to your plane and you might need need to adjust your sight picture to get your over the nose view more in line with what you had in your previous planes.

I know a pillow helped me with my girl. And I've ordered fancy leather bolsters.
 
I'm with PilotRPI. If my round out/flares are suffering it's because I'm bringing my eyes in too close. Nearly porpoised my first landing today because of that.
 
I replaced the "flare" image in my head with simply "arresting the descent." That helped to smooth things outs for me.

Are you hitting your approach speed exactly? When you're on the number, everything else is easier. Good luck!

My home field is the hardest for me, too!
 
PilotRPI said:
Make sure you are looking at the far end of the runway, not right in front of you or where you expect to touch down.
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I was going to say this. I'm relatively green but every time I arrest too high it's because I'm looking down, not ahead.
 
MetalCloud said:
I was going to say this. I'm relatively green but every time I arrest too high it's because I'm looking down, not ahead.
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Honestly I think I was just looking at the ground instead of transitioning my eyes to the end of the runway. And I was so focused on getting all the technical particulars right in front of this guy that I was forgetting the art of landing. Very annoying. My approaches were perfect, speeds right on, just was afraid of the ground.
 
I do that sometimes too. Just seems like it appears so damn quickly sometimes! All good.
 
ircphoenix said:
So... I've been flying my plane around breaking it in. Been landing it like normal literally everywhere I go.

Today I had a CFI in the plane with me and could not flare to save my life. WTF am I doing wrong?

I know none of you was with me, so you couldn't tell me... but tell me about your mistakes that you made, and how you corrected them.

Except for @James331 since we know he's perfect. =D
Click to expand...

Took me 17 hours to solo instead of 9 or 10.. because I couldn't wrap my head around the last few feet of the descent and the flare..

Just gradually pull back on the yoke/stick to arrest the descent...... and the last 6-12 inches just hold it off... hold it off... hold it off.... until it settles...

One day it just all "clicked" and was fine after that..
 
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I agree with seat height/site picture, as has already been said.
 
My landings are stinking it up right now also. I fly a Warrior II, and honestly, I stop looking at the airspeed somewhere on short final. VSO X1.3 is about 76mph so I try to be 75-80 from abeam the numbers until I stop looking, basically when I'm "over the fence". I tend to land flat. I did have my Virb going the other day and it records GROUND SPEED, one landing was 64 and the other was 58 when the mains touched, there was little to no wind. That really doesn't help much I know. I do think I am not looking down the runway. I think it is in the transition of looking at my aim point on approach to bringing my eyes up and down to the end in the round out and flare. So, I think my speed is ok, maybe I am fixating on aim point and flying it on rather than a nice flare.
 
You're right. I am talking MPH, not Kts, but still that would be 50 mph. Need to do a bunch of landings.
 
Mike Smith said:
You're right. I am talking MPH, not Kts, but still that would be 50 mph. Need to do a bunch of landings.
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Mike.........just after you turn final, dial in your 76 (I shoot for closer to 74 but that shouldn't make a difference) and then don't look at the ASI again. if you're dialed in, everything else should fall into place and instead of freaking out about a mph or two you can focus on flying the plane, site picture, etc.....

....says captain eman.
 
eman1200 said:
Mike.........just after you turn final, dial in your 76 (I shoot for closer to 74 but that shouldn't make a difference) and then don't look at the ASI again. if you're dialed in, everything else should fall into place and instead of freaking out about a mph or two you can focus on flying the plane, site picture, etc.....

....says captain eman.
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That is pretty much how I do it. I think my issue is fixating on my landing spot. I don't think I am transitioning my eyes up to the end of the runway and that is causing me to land "early".
 
Jacobson Flare. I worked through this system when in Australia. It's engineering based flaring and quite interesting that works well for me.
 
Kritchlow said:
Last time I went into a landing "slump", I tried lowering my seat. It worked great. I'm not sure if that forced me to look further down the runway or what, but it worked.

Of course, that was an Airbus. That is likely irrelevant though.
Click to expand...

I've heard that the "land" button is easier to reach when you're sitting a little lower. lol
 
Mike Smith said:
My landings are stinking it up right now also. I fly a Warrior II, and honestly, I stop looking at the airspeed somewhere on short final. VSO X1.3 is about 76mph so I try to be 75-80 from abeam the numbers until I stop looking, basically when I'm "over the fence". I tend to land flat. I did have my Virb going the other day and it records GROUND SPEED, one landing was 64 and the other was 58 when the mains touched, there was little to no wind. That really doesn't help much I know. I do think I am not looking down the runway. I think it is in the transition of looking at my aim point on approach to bringing my eyes up and down to the end in the round out and flare. So, I think my speed is ok, maybe I am fixating on aim point and flying it on rather than a nice flare.
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Slow down sooner. 1.3 over the fence is fast, making your landings flat and the elevator way too sensitive.
 
Same here on the flaring to high. Still do it from time to time. Years ago I started doing what I named the "two step flare." Didn't find out until years later that it was known as the round out. Looking out yonder to the end of the runway I didn't really get until flying gliders. Looking down and fixating on the landing spot is like something I learned from riding motorcycles in the "twisties." Look out in the distance where you are going, not at the road right in front of you. I've found that flying and riding have a lot in common. It's about overcoming "survival instincts." Humans did not evolve riding and flying and there are things you need to do that are completely opposite of what "the voices in your head" are telling you to do. The big one of course is "pull the stick back" when the ground is coming up at you.
 
ircphoenix said:
So... I've been flying my plane around breaking it in. Been landing it like normal literally everywhere I go.

Today I had a CFI in the plane with me and could not flare to save my life. WTF am I doing wrong?

I know none of you was with me, so you couldn't tell me... but tell me about your mistakes that you made, and how you corrected them.

Except for @James331 since we know he's perfect. =D
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I'm curious what type of plane are you in now and what type did you train in?

Did you go high wing to low wing, heavier to LSA?
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
On timing the round out/flare I use the Rod Machado method of the runway filling the windshield.
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Yeah. The rapid geometric expansion technique? I think I was using that technique for a while with decent success. So since it was working, I stopped doing it and decided to get behind the airplane instead.
 
ircphoenix said:
Yeah. The rapid geometric expansion technique? I think I was using that technique for a while with decent success. So since it was working, I stopped doing it and decided to get behind the airplane instead.
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This:

But, I suspect since you were landing fine before, maybe its just getting the new 'sight picture' burned in on the new plane.
 
ircphoenix said:
Yeah. The rapid geometric expansion technique? I think I was using that technique for a while with decent success. So since it was working, I stopped doing it and decided to get behind the airplane instead.
Click to expand...
I always liked this one the way they break down the aiming point transition down the runway. I wish someone would redo this in better quality.:

I think this helped me when I was working on my timing issues. I was flaring too high and this helped show me how far you hold your stable approach before doing anything.
 
exncsurfer said:
I always liked this one the way they break down the aiming point transition down the runway. I wish someone would redo this in better quality.:
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I liked this video too. Would appreciate higher quality and maybe a voiceover explanation as well.
 
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