Help - FAA Medical Certification Denied

A

Anonymus

Guest
Hi,
I was honest on my application and said I had tried marijuana back in high school. I'm now in college and trying to get medical certification so I can study to be a pilot. I haven't done anything before I tried it or since then. They sent me a letter stating I'm denied because of a "history of substance abuse". The letter stated I can send a written request for reconsideration with an 8500-5 form. Then it stated for "Special Issuance Authorization" (Do I need this or to do all this?). I should complete a copy of a current evaluation from a certified substance abuse specialist. (The drug test I had sent FAA was all negative). For go do an Engagement with a Human Intervention Motivation Study (HIMS). Monitoring which sounded like 6 months to a year or longer. I am so confused! I don't know where to go from here? Any help in how to go about this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance for any help or advice in the right direction. I think I'm going to send the letter. Do I hand write it, type it? Send it with another clean drug test.
 
Anonymus said:
Hi,
I was honest on my application and said I had tried marijuana back in high school. I'm now in college and trying to get medical certification so I can study to be a pilot. I haven't done anything before I tried it or since then. They sent me a letter stating I'm denied because of a "history of substance abuse". The letter stated I can send a written request for reconsideration with an 8500-5 form. Then it stated for "Special Issuance Authorization" (Do I need this or to do all this?). I should complete a copy of a current evaluation from a certified substance abuse specialist. (The drug test I had sent FAA was all negative). For go do an Engagement with a Human Intervention Motivation Study (HIMS). Monitoring which sounded like 6 months to a year or longer. I am so confused! I don't know where to go from here? Any help in how to go about this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance for any help or advice in the right direction. I think I'm going to send the letter. Do I hand write it, type it? Send it with another clean drug test.
Click to expand...
Give me a shot if you want. I can tell you my path.
 
Follow the directions from the FAA EXACTLY as stated in the letter. Do not elaborate. Do not add anything other than what's requested.
Get with a very senior AME who understands how to work thru the process. Not every AME understands what to do for a successful outcome. We have 3 here who will chime in at some point.

Yes, type it. No need to make the FAA staff work harder than needed.

There are people here who have gone thru the hoops that can provide additional info.
 
You'll want to talk to Bruce or another senior AME who works on hard cases and follow the path for a special issuance. But your description of using in highschool and now you're in college makes me wonder how long ago this was. More than two years before you applied? Ave why did you send the FAA drug test results?
 
Lindberg said:
You'll want to talk to Bruce or another senior AME who works on hard cases and follow the path for a special issuance. But your description of using in highschool and now you're in college makes me wonder how long ago this was. More than two years before you applied? Ave why did you send the FAA drug test results?
Click to expand...
It’s been about a year since I’ve tried it. So it hasn’t been years. I wish it had. The random was because it was asked for because I wrote that I tried it recently on my application. I did the test and sent it back because they said they needed more info. I just got back a letter of denial. My test was all clean though.
 
murphey said:
Follow the directions from the FAA EXACTLY as stated in the letter. Do not elaborate. Do not add anything other than what's requested.
Get with a very senior AME who understands how to work thru the process. Not every AME understands what to do for a successful outcome. We have 3 here who will chime in at some point.

Yes, type it. No need to make the FAA staff work harder than needed.

There are people here who have gone thru the hoops that can provide additional info.
Click to expand...
When I type up the letter do I just ask for reconsideration or do I elaborate and give them reasons why and tell them that I’ve never done anything like that my whole life and it was a stupid young bad choice I made to do that. Or does all that not matter? Thanks. I just don’t want to make matters worse. Do I start doing the monitoring and all the other things. They said only have 30 days to reply with a letter but the other things will take longer than that, like spending time with a sponser, so I’m a little confused if it was an either or.
 
Anonymous. said:
When I type up the letter do I just ask for reconsideration or do I elaborate and give them reasons why and tell them that I’ve never done anything like that my whole life and it was a stupid young bad choice I made to do that. Or does all that not matter? Thanks. I just don’t want to make matters worse. Do I start doing the monitoring and all the other things. They said only have 30 days to reply with a letter but the other things will take longer than that, like spending time with a sponser, so I’m a little confused if it was an either or.
Click to expand...
You're smart to be here asking for advice. Take it. No offense, but you're only in this situation because you didn't get good advice to begin with and didn't have your ducks in a row. So take the good advice you're getting now: Enlist the help of an experienced AME.
 
Lindberg said:
You're smart to be here asking for advice. Take it. No offense, but you're only in this situation because you didn't get good advice to begin with and didn't have your ducks in a row. So take the good advice you're getting now: Enlist the help of an experienced AME.
Click to expand...
Do you not read the postings here?

DO NOT DO ANYTHING!
DO NOT RESPOND TO THE FAA!
STOP ASKING QUESTIONS HERE!

CONTACT DR BRUCE IMMEDIATELY AND DO EXACTLY WHAT HE SAYS!

(*SIGH*)
 
I didn’t see the connection explicitly said, but Dr Bruce is Dr Bruce Chien, aka bbchien.
 
See private email. You have to understand that the FAA system is not equipped to let you "get your act together". It is a thumbs up or thumbs down system. No way can you get to a necessary evaluator equipped for the evalution in 30 days. So you accept the denial and do what it sez and then reapply. There is no limit to the number of times you can apply, although it's futile until you have what they want. No medical officer will reverse the judgement of another.

PS my tagline might be turned off, in your "settings" on POA. Check that out, the links only show if this webboard function is "turned on".

Thanks to Nauga for taking the post down....if the spam bots get me I have to change the email addy. Sigh...such is our current planet.
 
Last edited:
Back in 1988 I went to an FBI seminar on campus as part of a job fair. The special agent presenting said during his presentation "If you have smoked marijuana before, no problem. Personally I think you're crazy, but no problem". Fast forward 35 years and we live in a society that deems armed police officers suffering with depression and on medication fit for duty. There are 24 states that allow recreational use of marijuana. But a kid admits to trying marijuana in high school and they get denied a medical certificate because of that.

Just another illustration of what a joke FAA Aerospace Medicine is...
 
Palmpilot said:
Do the feds really bother to subpoena the identities of people who post anonymously here?
Click to expand...
The reason to stop asking questions here is not subpoena or FAA searching, it's because the question has been answered multiple times and very accurate info has been provided but the OP insists on attempting to solve the problem himself. In other words, stop shooting yourself in the foot.
 
idahoflier said:
Back in 1988 I went to an FBI seminar on campus as part of a job fair. The special agent presenting said during his presentation "If you have smoked marijuana before, no problem. Personally I think you're crazy, but no problem". Fast forward 35 years and we live in a society that deems armed police officers suffering with depression and on medication fit for duty. There are 24 states that allow recreational use of marijuana. But a kid admits to trying marijuana in high school and they get denied a medical certificate because of that.

Just another illustration of what a joke FAA Aerospace Medicine is...
Click to expand...
You make it sound like highschool was a long time ago. In fact, if he'd waited one more year before applying, he wouldn't have even had to disclose the use. The FBI, on the other hand, especially in 1988, wouldn't even consider you if you smoked pot more than twice in your life.
 
idahoflier said:
Back in 1988 I went to an FBI seminar on campus as part of a job fair. The special agent presenting said during his presentation "If you have smoked marijuana before, no problem. Personally I think you're crazy, but no problem"....
Click to expand...
Different strokes. FBI is asking because they’ll find out in the security clearance process, where integrity is more important than past indiscretions.

FAA is asking from an aeromedical perspective where codified law stuffs them in a corner. Would you prefer a federal agency not follow published law?
 
Lindberg said:
You make it sound like highschool was a long time ago. In fact, if he'd waited one more year before applying, he wouldn't have even had to disclose the use. The FBI, on the other hand, especially in 1988, wouldn't even consider you if you smoked pot more than twice in your life.
Click to expand...

That is contrary to what the FBI agent told us all in 1988. He told us past use was NOT a disqualifying factor in a hiring decision. Was he and/or the FBI lying? IDK, but it was a non-issue for me anyway. As far as waiting another year? I don't see where the OP posted any dates, so for all we know they misinterpreted the question and answered as an "ever". But you bring up a good point, what's magical about two years? Why not 5 or 10?
 
Last edited:
TCABM said:
Different strokes. FBI is asking because they’ll find out in the security clearance process, where integrity is more important than past indiscretions.

FAA is asking from an aeromedical perspective where codified law stuffs them in a corner. Would you prefer a federal agency not follow published law?
Click to expand...

What published law are you referencing? If there is a law directing the FAA ask about past substance abuse in the U.S. Code for issuance of a medical certificate, then your point is well taken and I would be unfairly critical of FAA Aerospace Medicine.
 
idahoflier said:
That is contrary to what the FBI agent told us all in 1988. He told us past use was NOT a disqualifying factor in a hiring decision. Was he and/or the FBI lying? IDK, but it was a non-issue for me anyway.
Click to expand...
Absolutely anything other than "experimental" use would have disqualified you. Maybe he thought telling you it was ok would reduce the chances of someone lying about it.

idahoflier said:
As far as waiting another year? I don't see where the OP posted any dates, so for all we know they misinterpreted the question and answered as an "ever".
Click to expand...
Here:
Anonymous. said:
It’s been about a year since I’ve tried it. So it hasn’t been years. I wish it had.
Click to expand...
 
idahoflier said:
That is contrary to what the FBI agent told us all in 1988. He told us past use was NOT a disqualifying factor in a hiring decision. Was he and/or the FBI lying? IDK, but it was a non-issue for me anyway. As far as waiting another year? I don't see where the OP posted any dates, so for all we know they misinterpreted the question and answered as an "ever". But you bring up a good point, what's magical about two years? Why not 5 or 10?
Click to expand...
Hey, let's not criticize the FAA for being reasonable about something!
 
Lindberg said:
Absolutely anything other than "experimental" use would have disqualified you. Maybe he thought telling you it was ok would reduce the chances of someone lying about it.


Here:
Click to expand...
Thanks, I didn't see their follow up...
 
Lindberg said:
Absolutely anything other than "experimental" use would have disqualified you. Maybe he thought telling you it was ok would reduce the chances of someone lying about it.


Here:
Click to expand...
Again, just to clarify, this was not an issue for me at all. That said, the current FBI policy is no marijuana use within the last year, and if I'm interpreting their guidelines correctly, any use before age 18 is OK. So it would seem the FBI has a more tolerant policy than the FAA in contemporary times...

 
I remember the security briefing when I got my secret clearance in 1981 for my first real job (US Navy civil service engineering job), the FBI guy presenting it said, "We don't care about weed; it's the beer of the 80's." Presumably true because when two of my co-workers got busted for possession on the way home from a Grateful Dead concert it didn't affect their jobs or clearance, though it did get reported to their supervisor... who didn't care.
 
idahoflier said:
Back in 1988 I went to an FBI seminar on campus as part of a job fair. The special agent presenting said during his presentation "If you have smoked marijuana before, no problem. Personally I think you're crazy, but no problem". Fast forward 35 years and we live in a society that deems armed police officers suffering with depression and on medication fit for duty. There are 24 states that allow recreational use of marijuana. But a kid admits to trying marijuana in high school and they get denied a medical certificate because of that.

Just another illustration of what a joke FAA Aerospace Medicine is...
Click to expand...
25 states, as of this morning. Ohio is a weed zone now.
 
idahoflier said:
What published law are you referencing? If there is a law directing the FAA ask about past substance abuse in the U.S. Code for issuance of a medical certificate, then your point is well taken and I would be unfairly critical of FAA Aerospace Medicine.
Click to expand...

At it’s root are the Controlled Substances Act of 1970 and the Federal Aviation Act of 1958.

The standards for substance use/abuse/misuse, and dependence are codified in 14 CFR 67.107, .207, and .307 which appear to have been reorganized and revised in 1996. Prior to that, the standard was in 14 CFR 67.13, 15, and 17. The relevant text the ln was
Drug dependence.
As used in this section, drug dependence means a condition in which a person is addicted to or dependent on drugs other than alcohol, tobacco, or ordinary caffeine-containing beverages, as evidenced by habitual use or a clear sense of need for the drug.
Click to expand...

The rationale for that change to the Code of Federal Regulations is in 61 FR 11256.
 
TCABM said:
At it’s root are the Controlled Substances Act of 1970 and the Federal Aviation Act of 1958.

The standards for substance use/abuse/misuse, and dependence are codified in 14 CFR 67.107, .207, and .307 which appear to have been reorganized and revised in 1996. Prior to that, the standard was in 14 CFR 67.13, 15, and 17. The relevant text the ln was


The rationale for that change to the Code of Federal Regulations is in 61 FR 11256.
Click to expand...

Well, sure, but those are regs promulgated by the DOT/FAA. Congress didn't pass a law that I am aware of dictating prior use of marijuana within two years of application for a medical certificate is grounds for denial. Like in most areas of Aerospace Medicine, the FAA could take a more reasonable approach if it wanted to...
 
idahoflier said:
Well, sure, but those are regs promulgated by the DOT/FAA. Congress didn't pass a law that I am aware of dictating prior use of marijuana within two years of application for a medical certificate is grounds for denial. Like in most areas of Aerospace Medicine, the FAA could take a more reasonable approach if it wanted to...
Click to expand...

Why is allowing pot use considered more reasonable? I suppose it sounds like I'm trying to stir the pot, but I am genuinely curious. Why would allowing someone to fly while using mind-altering drugs be considered more reasonable than disallowing such behavior?
 
SkyChaser said:
Why is allowing pot use considered more reasonable? I suppose it sounds like I'm trying to stir the pot, but I am genuinely curious. Why would allowing someone to fly while using mind-altering drugs be considered more reasonable than disallowing such behavior?
Click to expand...
Alcohol is a mind altering drug and it's allowed, but not while flying. When marijuana becomes legal at a federal level, as seems likely given the current trend, the FAA will have to come up with some new rules (8 hours from the pot to the prop?)
 
idahoflier said:
Well, sure, but those are regs promulgated by the DOT/FAA....
Click to expand...
That’s how most laws work; Congress passes a general law into the US Code and the executive agencies are charged with promulgating rules in the Code of Federal Regulations (which is administrative law) to implement those laws.

Having said that, the Controlled Substances Act of 1970 specifically puts Marijuana on the Schedule I list of drugs. The link to the Federal Register I provided earlier provides the AMA research the FAA used to determine in 1996.

Regardless of state law, marijuana is a Schedule I drug, the same as meth, LSD, and a host of others, all being designated as high risk of abuse. If you expect the FAA to carve out one Schedule I drug and treat it differently than any other Schedule I drug, well….I’ve got some beachfront property for you.

Also note that the FAA doesn’t have a blanket prohibition; the SI process allows for methods to obtain a medical certificate; it all comes down to individual choice to exercise a regulated privilege.
 
SkyChaser said:
Why is allowing pot use considered more reasonable? I suppose it sounds like I'm trying to stir the pot, but I am genuinely curious. Why would allowing someone to fly while using mind-altering drugs be considered more reasonable than disallowing such behavior?
Click to expand...
I'm not advocating that the FAA allows pot use. I don't believe I said that in any of my comments. I am advocating that the FAA take a more reasonable approach to medical certification in general and in particular to the OP's case. This OP experimented with marijuana a year before applying for a medical certificate. They haven't used it since. They answered honestly on the 8500-8. They got medical disqualified. Sure they can jump through a long and expensive HIMS process to get a medical certificate, but is that REALLY warranted in this situation or similar situations?

To me a HIMS process seems reasonable for someone holding a Class 1 and maybe a Class 2 that has a substance abuse PROBLEM. A kid trying marijuana in high school doesn't come anywhere close to someone with a substance abuse problem IMHO.
 
Dana said:
Alcohol is a mind altering drug and it's allowed, but not while flying. When marijuana becomes legal at a federal level, as seems likely given the current trend, the FAA will have to come up with some new rules (8 hours from the pot to the prop?)
Click to expand...
There's also a BAC cut off, and the FAA would likely require similar with pot. Since it's not really possible to test for intoxication with pot, they may just say has to be undetectable in your urine or blood before you fly. Which could be a week after use, or even longer. But we're all just speculating about a hypothetical future.
 
Lindberg said:
There's also a BAC cut off, and the FAA would likely require similar with pot. Since it's not really possible to test for intoxication with pot, they may just say has to be undetectable in your urine or blood before you fly. Which could be a week after use, or even longer. But we're all just speculating about a hypothetical future.
Click to expand...
Or the FAA may decide to keep the current rules regardless of Federal law on pot.
 
Lindberg said:
they may just say has to be undetectable in your urine or blood or hair before you fly. Which could be a week after use, or even longer. But we're all just speculating about a hypothetical future.
Click to expand...

Skin-head Pilots will be a dead giveaway. :p
 
Back
Top