Hello from NYC/Hudson Valley

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Brandon Hicks

Filing Flight Plan
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Aug 2, 2018
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I've enjoyed lurking around for a while but figured I would sign up an introduce myself and ask for any recommendations on flight schools in and around NYC or the Hudson Valley.

My wife and I are both seriously considering going for a Sports Pilot -> Private Pilot license (sorry I don't have all the acronyms down yet). We're in the city during the week but spend 50+ weekends a year plus most of our vacation/recreational time in Ulster County so it probably makes sense to fly out of the Hudson Valley. I've made calls to schools in both Kingston and Orange County and only one of those offers the Sports Pilot license so that is the way we are leaning but we're new to all of this and I wanted to solicit any opinions/recommendations from others in the area.

I did notice there is a recent thread about someone looking for a DPE in the area so I'll be following that thread as well.

Thanks all.
 
So, @Brandon Hicks, where is the best place in or around the city to get the best pizza?
 
AggieMike88 said:
So, @Brandon Hicks, where is the best place in or around the city to get the best pizza?
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I can't post links yet or I would but IMHO, Juliana's in the Dumbo neighborhood of Brooklyn has the best pizza in the city, hands down. Right under the Brooklyn Bridge and a beautiful spot but LOTS of tourist in the summer. If you have a seaplane, you can land about 5 minutes from it.

Edit: Oh man, now I'm craving it and may have to go wait in that crazy line for lunch!
 
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Welcome to whatever this is.

I think it’s great that your wife wants to become a pilot with you. You can encourage each other and hopefully what one of you doesn’t quite grasp during ground school maybe the other will. Good luck.
 
AggieMike88 said:
Last night, I watched the NYC episode of "Somebody feed Phil" on Netflix. All the food shown looked so good, now I want to go back to NYC and follow in his footsteps and eat at the same places.
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I'll have to check that show out. I've eaten at a few of those places, used to live right down the street from Peter Luger. That place is legendary and totally changed my world view on what beef could taste like. You're in Texas so I'm sure you already know the beauty of aged beef but for someone who grew up in Georgia on grocery store steak, it was a mind-blowing experience!
 
I am getting my training at a local club and flying out of 2NK9 (up to 30 hours so far). It is a private airport that you could look at joining and it would give you a place to keep an airplane after you get your ticket if you happen to want to own your own plane. Meeting is this Saturday at 10:00am.

KMGJ Orange County is a nice airport, uncontrolled, but with lots of facilities and getting a new runway (perhaps at a waste of taxpayer dollars, long story). There is a lot of traffic there - at least compared to the other small fields around the area, but you never have to wait to takeoff. Just have to deal with 1-4 other students and traffic in the area most times of the day. There are a bunch of other small fields in the area, Kobelt (N45), Wurtsboro, Ellenville, Sullivan County, Randall, Kingston, Sky Acres, Hudson Valley, etc. So plenty of opportunity to practice at other fields. You can go to a place like Kobelt and have the entire airport to yourself for the entire day if you want. Sleepy places are all over.
 
Matthew Rogers said:
I am getting my training at a local club and flying out of 2NK9 (up to 30 hours so far). It is a private airport that you could look at joining and it would give you a place to keep an airplane after you get your ticket if you happen to want to own your own plane. Meeting is this Saturday at 10:00am.

KMGJ Orange County is a nice airport, uncontrolled, but with lots of facilities and getting a new runway (perhaps at a waste of taxpayer dollars, long story). There is a lot of traffic there - at least compared to the other small fields around the area, but you never have to wait to takeoff. Just have to deal with 1-4 other students and traffic in the area most times of the day. There are a bunch of other small fields in the area, Kobelt (N45), Wurtsboro, Ellenville, Sullivan County, Randall, Kingston, Sky Acres, Hudson Valley, etc. So plenty of opportunity to practice at other fields. You can go to a place like Kobelt and have the entire airport to yourself for the entire day if you want. Sleepy places are all over.
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Hi Matthew, Congrats on 30 hours. We have guests in town this weekend so Sat is a no-go but that is certainly an option and much closer than Orange Co. We're pretty close to High Falls/NK08. We're just getting ready to dip our toe in the water so I suspect we'll do a couple of test flights and check out some different places before making a final decision. I may PM you at some point for a little more info if that is ok? Thanks again.
 
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The airport is much less important than the instructor you end up with. I'd recommend you go to all of the airports that might work for you and meet with and talk to the instructor. Find the person that's a good fit for you and take whatever airport you end up with.
 
Brandon Hicks said:
I've enjoyed lurking around for a while but figured I would sign up an introduce myself and ask for any recommendations on flight schools in and around NYC or the Hudson Valley.

My wife and I are both seriously considering going for a Sports Pilot -> Private Pilot license (sorry I don't have all the acronyms down yet). We're in the city during the week but spend 50+ weekends a year plus most of our vacation/recreational time in Ulster County so it probably makes sense to fly out of the Hudson Valley. I've made calls to schools in both Kingston and Orange County and only one of those offers the Sports Pilot license so that is the way we are leaning but we're new to all of this and I wanted to solicit any opinions/recommendations from others in the area.

I did notice there is a recent thread about someone looking for a DPE in the area so I'll be following that thread as well.

Thanks all.
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Suggest training for the PPL and forgetting the sport. Always better to aim high.
 
spiderweb said:
Suggest training for the PPL and forgetting the sport. Always better to aim high.
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This. My first question is why SP, and have you+wife investigated the FAA Medical issuance requirements?

Oh, and welcome to the zoo!
 
Looks like Ulster County is clear of the summer weekend TFR's centered in New Jersey.
 
Matthew Rogers said:
I am getting my training at a local club and flying out of 2NK9 (up to 30 hours so far). It is a private airport that you could look at joining and it would give you a place to keep an airplane after you get your ticket if you happen to want to own your own plane. Meeting is this Saturday at 10:00am.

KMGJ Orange County is a nice airport, uncontrolled, but with lots of facilities and getting a new runway (perhaps at a waste of taxpayer dollars, long story). There is a lot of traffic there - at least compared to the other small fields around the area, but you never have to wait to takeoff. Just have to deal with 1-4 other students and traffic in the area most times of the day. There are a bunch of other small fields in the area, Kobelt (N45), Wurtsboro, Ellenville, Sullivan County, Randall, Kingston, Sky Acres, Hudson Valley, etc. So plenty of opportunity to practice at other fields. You can go to a place like Kobelt and have the entire airport to yourself for the entire day if you want. Sleepy places are all over.
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Matthew
Is there a school associated with 2NK9? If so can you PM me contact info?
Mike
 
Lachlan said:
He said he’s from Georgia, but he currently lives in an area where you think people are illiterate and unable to speak clearly. Ironic coming from a dude in Texas. ;)
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At least he didn't make the mistake of asking "which exit?"

(a reference to the Jersey turnpike for those who don't know the joke)
 
No school at 2NK9. It is a private club-based airport but I am taking lessons with an old CFI there. You have to join the club to fly in or out of the airport. Because I was pretty sure that I would end up there in the end, I joined and found an instructor for lessons.
 
Thank you all for the continued input. Re the sport license... it sort of made sense to us as a stepping stone, or an intermediate benchmark towards the full license. We had planed to discuss it with the school after our discovery flight but I’m sure you guys have some good reasons for the suggestions. Are there some specific things you all can point to I can discus with my wife? Too much repeated material, too much added expense, etc?

We have not explored the FAA insurance requirments yet either. We will, thanks for pointing that out.

No wise guy accent here. Not too many of those guys left around ;). Enjoy the rest of your weekends.
 
Brandon Hicks said:
Thank you all for the continued input. Re the sport license... it sort of made sense to us as a stepping stone, or an intermediate benchmark towards the full license. We had planed to discuss it with the school after our discovery flight but I’m sure you guys have some good reasons for the suggestions. Are there some specific things you all can point to I can discus with my wife? Too much repeated material, too much added expense, etc?

We have not explored the FAA insurance requirments yet either. We will, thanks for pointing that out.

No wise guy accent here. Not too many of those guys left around ;). Enjoy the rest of your weekends.
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There are a few reasons that just going for the PPL straightaway might be your best bet. First of all, it is nearly always a good idea to aim high (see my tag). There are more requirements for the PPL and more hours of training which may translate into better safety. The other reason is that you could more or less stop at sport "on your way" to the PPL. Finally, I always felt that the PPL (especially with the IR) gives pilots more options and freedom to fly the way they want to fly.

You can always get your PPL, then fly as if you had your sport, but the opposite is not true.
 
If you eventually want the Private (PPL), go directly to the PPL. If all you want to do is day VFR flying with you and your wife as the only occupants, then go LSA (light sport). If you decide that you will want to do the PPL, review the medical requirements and only take your 3rd class medical if you are sure you will pass. If you get denied a medical you can't then go fly LSA.

What is drawing you to private aviation? If it's long trips replacing airline travel, then you will need to get your Private and then Instrument ratings. If you just want to sight-see in the local area, then light sport is fine. Shorter trips where you're flexible on start and end date can also be doable in light sport. Heck, two teenagers flew a Piper Cub (which qualifies as an LSA) across the country (a reference to the true story "Flight of Passage" written by one of the pilots, Rinker Buck).

Also keep in mind that as a light sport pilot, you can't fly at night. And as you're finding it can be hard to find LSAs to rent (not a problem if you plan to own)

Personally, I have my private, but LSA covers everything I want to do.
 
From what I have been reading both online and from FAA site is that the hours towards sports license should count towards private pilot license as long as the CFI has the proper authority to certify a PPL. This is fairly new as far as FAA regulations go. From all of you guys out in the community is this true? The few schools I have spoken to told me that sports pilot license then PPL would cost me a lot more money but I don't see how that is possible if I was just using sports pilot as a stepping stone or as my ultimate license.
Thanks
Mike
 
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Mike Marino said:
From what I have been reading both online and from FAA site is that for will be ours towards sports license should count towards private pilot license as long as the CFI has the proper authority to certify a PPL. This is fairly new as far as FAA regulations go. From all of you guys out in the community is this true? The few schools I have spoken to told me that sports pilot license then PPL would cost me a lot more money but I don't see how that is possible if I was just using sports pilot as a stepping stone or as my ultimate license.
Thanks
Mike
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I am not sure if using sport as a stepping stone of sorts towards the PPL would end up costing more than going straight for the PPL. It may depend on how your flight school organizes curricula, whether it is Part 61 or 141, or it may just be that those schools just want you to go directly to PPL.

It is just my opinion, but I am allergic to the idea of getting "just enough" training--for almost anything, especially when more training might mean (and I emphasize the word, "might") better safety and more freedom in your flying.

If you take a year of French, you might be able to go to Paris and order cheese and find the restroom. If you take a few years of French, though, you might then be able to read Voltaire or Camus, argue politics with someone in a cafe in Toulouse, or find the best out-of-the-way gallery in Bruges.

Neither way is inherently right or wrong.
 
There is hardly any difference between Sport and PP certificate in terms of how much time and study you have to commit to both.With PP you get to do a slightly longer cross country, a few more hours flying at night and that’s pretty much it but you get a lot more options with PP.

The only real reason to go SP would be related to inability to get your medical -that’s pretty much it.
 
Warmi said:
There is hardly any difference between Sport and PP certificate in terms of how much time and study you have to commit to both.With PP you get to do a slightly longer cross country, a few more hours flying at night and that’s pretty much it but you get a lot more options with PP.

The only real reason to go SP would be related to inability to get your medical -that’s pretty much it.
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I would respectfully but strongly disagree. There are many differences between sport and the PPL.

One of the big ones for the OP, who is based near NYC is this: A sport may not act as pilot in command of a light-sport aircraft in Class B, C, or D airspace, at an airport located in Class B, C, or D airspace, and to, from, through, or at an airport having an operational control tower unless you have met the requirements specified in §61.325."

One also may not:

  • fly at night
  • carry more than one passenger (sucks if you have a family),
  • fly higher than 10k feet, etc.
  • a few others
Those are real (and real annoying) limitations, which is why I say that getting your PPL allows you to fly with more freedom.
 
Yes, there are significant difference in terms of what you are allowed to do with corresponding certificates. That was actually the point of my post - I wrote that there is hardly any difference in terms of getting your PP vs SP - as in how much you have to study and how much money you have to spend ( I know, I got both ) - PP gives you a lot more freedom - exactly the type of freedom you outlined.

In other words, don't bother with SP - you will spend almost as much time getting the SP certificate as PP, but you will be limited in what you can do.
 
I appreciate the opinions, personally I want the PPL especially for all of the privileges, but financially it would be easier to start at sports license. Their is also the medical hurdle, being over 40, I have it in the back of my head that if I go PPL and don't do well on the medical I am S.O.L as the th say.
MIKE
 
Warmi said:
Yes, there are significant difference in terms of what you are allowed to do with corresponding certificates. That was actually the point of my post - I wrote that there is hardly any difference in terms of getting your PP vs SP - as in how much you have to study and how much money you have to spend ( I know, I got both ) - PP gives you a lot more freedom - exactly the type of freedom you outlined.

In other words, don't bother with SP - you will spend almost as much time getting the SP certificate as PP, but you will be limited in what you can do.
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I'm sorry I misunderstood.
 
Mike Marino said:
I appreciate the opinions, personally I want the PPL especially for all of the privileges, but financially it would be easier to start at sports license. Their is also the medical hurdle, being over 40, I have it in the back of my head that if I go PPL and don't do well on the medical I am S.O.L as the th say.
MIKE
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As to the medical, you can see how you would do before you actually go in for the medical. In fact, I recommend you check out the requirements pretty early on to see if there might be any obstacles. On this very webboard, there are a few good physicians and DPEs who can also help you with this.
 
Good instructors at Arrow in Danbury, and the DPE for Light Sport hangs out there.
I don't know who is doing instruction at Kingston. I guess it's time for me to stop by and find out.
I have a mantra, and I stand by it.
Get your Light Sport first. You can then fly anywhere you want, legally, while working on your PPL. You can even get a Float rating before you get your PPL.
Continue your training in the same LS aircraft you started in. Don't let anyone talk you into flying a "big boy" airplane. You can save a pile of money, since most LS aircraft rent for much less then your basic Cessna or Piper.
Take your PPL check ride in the same LS aircraft you have been bombing around in. You will have much greater familiarity with the plane, making your PPL checkride "easier".
While you are working on your PPL, if you want to fly to Oshkosh, or Block Island or Sky Acres for breakfast (let me know, I'll buy you breakfast) you can do it and that time and cross country experience count towards your PPL. And you don't need an instructors permission to go anywhere.
You can get your LS and PPL in something like a J3 Cub and get your tailwheel endorsement (and be a much better pilot). A bunch of people will now jump in and say "VOR" and "GPS" and a whole bunch of "required navigation" foolishness.
None of it is required if you take your check ride in a J3 or similarly simple aircraft. All you need to do is show proficiency with a compass and a map. Yes you will need to answer questions on the written, but you can memorize all the VOR, etc answers.
You can rent a J3 at GBR for $85.00 an hour wet. $115.00 with an instructor. If you fly somewhere and have to put fuel in it, they reimburse you for the fuel.
I think the Remos at Arrow at DXR is $130.00 and hour.
 
Shepherd, everything you say is true, but I think it is important for the OP to understand all the options. It is good that you are showing him one of those options, but he should have a complete picture. He lives in Brooklyn, and though he might learn to fly in an area a bit north of the City, he might be interested in using the airspace to full advantage at some point.

So Brandon, if the goal is to get in the air ASAP, fly in quiet airspace, and learn good stick and rudder skills, Shepherd's idea is best. If you know that you will very soon want to traverse the NYC airspace, carry more than one passenger, or generally fly faster, you might as well go for the PPL. Again, neither way is inherently better; you just base your decision on your goals, and when you want to reach them.


Shepherd said:
Good instructors at Arrow in Danbury, and the DPE for Light Sport hangs out there.
I don't know who is doing instruction at Kingston. I guess it's time for me to stop by and find out.
I have a mantra, and I stand by it.
Get your Light Sport first. You can then fly anywhere you want, legally, while working on your PPL. You can even get a Float rating before you get your PPL.
Continue your training in the same LS aircraft you started in. Don't let anyone talk you into flying a "big boy" airplane. You can save a pile of money, since most LS aircraft rent for much less then your basic Cessna or Piper.
Take your PPL check ride in the same LS aircraft you have been bombing around in. You will have much greater familiarity with the plane, making your PPL checkride "easier".
While you are working on your PPL, if you want to fly to Oshkosh, or Block Island or Sky Acres for breakfast (let me know, I'll buy you breakfast) you can do it and that time and cross country experience count towards your PPL. And you don't need an instructors permission to go anywhere.
You can get your LS and PPL in something like a J3 Cub and get your tailwheel endorsement (and be a much better pilot). A bunch of people will now jump in and say "VOR" and "GPS" and a whole bunch of "required navigation" foolishness.
None of it is required if you take your check ride in a J3 or similarly simple aircraft. All you need to do is show proficiency with a compass and a map. Yes you will need to answer questions on the written, but you can memorize all the VOR, etc answers.
You can rent a J3 at GBR for $85.00 an hour wet. $115.00 with an instructor. If you fly somewhere and have to put fuel in it, they reimburse you for the fuel.
I think the Remos at Arrow at DXR is $130.00 and hour.
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I almost inadvertently landed at Sky Acres for breakfast today. I was heading out on my long solo XC and only 5 min in I contact Dutchess (KPOU) to transit their airspace on my way to KOXC-0B8-KSFZ-KMMK-2NK9. They contact me back with "Do you have a transponder?" Kinda weird, so we spend 5 minutes going back and forth turning it off, on, ident, off, ident, etc. He gave me some option like - "cycle the avionics master" which were comical to me in my 1966 C150 as I only have twist cap glass fuses holding it together ;). Better than a Champ without any electronics, but still. So I make a diversion towards Sky Acres (on a Sunday, there must be at least another pilot to take a quick look if not a mechanic). As I turn in that direction, the controller says "wait, I just had a blip on the screen". So I make a 360 and stay close and eventually it comes back online and I get a code and continue off into CT.

So....I just washed the plane before I left. I guess some water must have caused the transponder to stop transmitting until it dried out? Any one else have this happen to them? Another question - if the transponder fails, would you abort a XC flight? Assuming that you don't have any class C or B airspace to enter. I had open flight plans, but obviously would not be able to get advisories (FF) without the transponder, but no issues with entering class D airspace otherwise.

Fishers Island was great. The runway ends in a beach. Another young guy flew in after me in a 177 with his fishing pole and we talked a bit about how it is much better than Block Island. I was way too high over the water and it took a few minutes to circle over the airport to get back down to pattern altitude, but better high than swimming! I caught a ride with a local to the coffee shop (the only store on the island) and then back to head up to Providence.

That transponder issue was my one mandatory hiccup. Got out of a landing fee for being a student pilot, got a nice lunch, and headed home. Meriden airport MMK was nice with cheap fuel, but there is a good size hill right at the end of 36 that the 150 on a hot day did not like to see in front of her nose. Not a problem, but who likes to have a mountain right off the end of the runway.
 
@Shepherd Thank you for sharing what appears to be a less popular view here. Its obvious the comunity has a great deal of respect for your POV. This signals to us that it is a more complex and nuanced decision and maybe not so one-sided as we were beginning to think. I hope to be able to take you up on the lunch offer one of these days as well as reciprocate.

@Mike Marino makes a good point that I’ll freely admit is entering into our decision making progress as well. Finances.

No one who considers training for GA (see I’m starting to pick up the lingo!) with no commercial aspirations is looking for an inexpensive hobby (that’s what boats are for haha) but the financial realities of the a full Private License, x2 in our case since we are going to try and do it together as a shared activity, is very real. Particulalry in the beginning when you are outside looking in. The Sport License seems like it provides an opportunity to spread things out a bit more and introduce a little more enjoyment to the process perhaps, maybe not.

Once we fall in love, get the bug, develop a passion, etc. making 2x large commitments may be more comfortable but at this point, with all the unknows, it’s a bit daunting. My wife, for example, struggles with motion sickness in boats and is very concerned about the discovery flight. If/when she is able to overcome that, many of her personal fears/deamons will be exercised. I of course have my own fears and doubts to conquer along the way as well.

Thank you all for the various viewpoints and great advise. Its obvious you all have a great community here!
 
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Brandon Hicks said:
@Shepherd Thank you for sharing what appears to be a less popular view here. Its obvious the comunity has a great deal of respect for your POV. This signals to us that it is a more complex and nuanced decision and maybe not so one-sided as we were beginning to think. I hope to be able to take you up on the lunch offer one of these days as well as reciprocate.

@Mike Marino makes a good point that I’ll freely admit is entering into our decision making progreass as well. Finances.

No one who considers training for GA (see I’m starting to pick up the lingo!) with no commercial aspirations is looking for inexpensive hobby (that’s what boats are for haha) but the financial realities of the a full Private License, x2 in our case since we are going to try and do it together as a shared activity, is very real. Particulalry in the beginning when you are outside looking in. The Sport feels like it provides an opportunity to spread things out a bit more and introduce a little more enjoyment to the process perhaps, maybe not.

Once we fall in love, get the bug, develop a passion, etc. making 2x large commitments may be more comfortable but at this point, with all the unknows, it’s a bit daunting. My wife, for example, struggles with motion sickness in boats and is very concerned about the discovery flight. If/when she is able to overcome that, many of her personal fears/deamons will be exercised. I of course have my own fears and doubts to conquer along the way as well.

Thank you all for the various viewpoints and great advise. Its obvious you guys have a great community here!
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Hey Brandon, screw the Discovery flight. Hook up with Shepherd and he'll fly your wife and make it very comfortable for her. Plus you'd get to meet a nice human being. Shep in case you weren't aware, flew fighters in the Air Force, so he'll have some good stories to share.
 
Brandon, you might save money if you both go on each other's training flights. It might be 1.5 times as much, but not twice as much. Have fun!

Brandon Hicks said:
@Shepherd Thank you for sharing what appears to be a less popular view here. Its obvious the comunity has a great deal of respect for your POV. This signals to us that it is a more complex and nuanced decision and maybe not so one-sided as we were beginning to think. I hope to be able to take you up on the lunch offer one of these days as well as reciprocate.

@Mike Marino makes a good point that I’ll freely admit is entering into our decision making progress as well. Finances.

No one who considers training for GA (see I’m starting to pick up the lingo!) with no commercial aspirations is looking for an inexpensive hobby (that’s what boats are for haha) but the financial realities of the a full Private License, x2 in our case since we are going to try and do it together as a shared activity, is very real. Particulalry in the beginning when you are outside looking in. The Sport License seems like it provides an opportunity to spread things out a bit more and introduce a little more enjoyment to the process perhaps, maybe not.

Once we fall in love, get the bug, develop a passion, etc. making 2x large commitments may be more comfortable but at this point, with all the unknows, it’s a bit daunting. My wife, for example, struggles with motion sickness in boats and is very concerned about the discovery flight. If/when she is able to overcome that, many of her personal fears/deamons will be exercised. I of course have my own fears and doubts to conquer along the way as well.

Thank you all for the various viewpoints and great advise. Its obvious you all have a great community here!
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