With a L/H PIC it's not bad. A double seat with a R/H PIC not--that seat is a good 8-10" narrower. Latest I heard though it was not a L/H PIC aircraft.
Helicopter Down in East River
- Thread starter Stingray Don
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Bill Watson
En-Route
Haven’t seen that but they will do something after this one is analyzed. Let’s see, the tourist passengers are strapped in AND tethered with tether requiring a knife for an emergency (underwater) exit. No cost effective briefing can overcome that when this happens.
Oh, the pilot, presumably not tethered but briefed and experienced, is the only person to survive
.It will be particularly ugly if one or more passenger were released from their straps but still tethered when found by divers.
Of course none of us know what really happened yet.
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Lachlan
En-Route
Schumer is calling on the FAA to pull their 135 cert.
Tarheelpilot
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That guy is such a grand stander he is just white noise. In fact pretty much all of them are...
bnt83
Final Approach
Schumer is all knowing and clearly has some inside knowledge of what caused the accident.
Lachlan
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3 accidents in 11 years for that chopper charter... clearly you know more about it than everyone.
SkyDog58
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Canis Non Grata
I’m surprised he even knows what a 135 is.
SkyDog58
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Canis Non Grata
Haven’t seen that but they will do something after this one is analyzed. Let’s see, the tourist passengers are strapped in AND tethered with tether requiring a knife for an emergency (underwater) exit. No cost effective briefing can overcome that when this happens.
Oh, the pilot, presumably not tethered but briefed and experienced, is the only person to survive.
It will be particularly ugly if one or more passenger were released from their straps but still tethered when found by divers.
Of course none of us know what really happened yet.
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Those tethers should have some sort of a quick release to facilitate emergency egress. Something along the lines of a three ring release with a bright red handle that the pax can easily pull in an emergency.
Tarheelpilot
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I know nothing about the charter company which is why I haven’t made any comment. I was talking about Schumer not knowing what he’s talking about and what I beliveve to be the general stupidity of most of our political leaders. You can agree or not but my conclusions are based on fact not emotion or what some biased bobble head “reports” on the news. Now I’ll bow out because this is walking a fine line on the forum rules.3 accidents in 11 years for that chopper charter... clearly you know more about it than everyone.
Bill Watson
En-Route
I know our political system is in crisis and too many of our political leaders are corrupt, lack integrity or are perhaps wrong headed, but facts supporting their "stupidity" may be difficult to list and defend. Few if any of our leaders are slow, simple minded or lack intelligence. Seriously
And there's some pretty good reporting going on if you select your sources with some intelligence. There's also a crap load of lousy reporting going on, no doubt.
James331
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Haven’t seen that but they will do something after this one is analyzed. Let’s see, the tourist passengers are strapped in AND tethered with tether requiring a knife for an emergency (underwater) exit. No cost effective briefing can overcome that when this happens.
Oh, the pilot, presumably not tethered but briefed and experienced, is the only person to survive
It will be particularly ugly if one or more passenger were released from their straps but still tethered when found by divers.
Of course none of us know what really happened yet.
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Except for facts and stuff, like how many hours flown per accident like this, sadly some cupcakes still think they are owed a "safe" world when that ain't no such animal, no matter how hard the government markets it.
Personally my only change would be for a pocket with a hook knife to be stitched onto each harness, probably on the shoulder strap, done and done.
Also I'm a big fan of having some type of hook knife in anything you're belted into.
http://www.chutingstar.com/jack-the-ripper-hook-knife
I'm sure some staffer googled it for him, politicians never let a good death count go to waste when it can help them in the next election
Matthew
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Trying to understand: They were strapped in with belts that probably had a quick release, but because the doors were off they were also tethered?
And the tethers don't have a quick release because that could be a bad thing if you fell out, so they needed to be either cut or somehow unclipped?
Where on your body would that tether be attached? Would they have been wearing some sort of harness?
And the tethers don't have a quick release because that could be a bad thing if you fell out, so they needed to be either cut or somehow unclipped?
Where on your body would that tether be attached? Would they have been wearing some sort of harness?
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Except for facts and stuff, like how many hours flown per accident like this, sadly some cupcakes still think they are owed a "safe" world when that ain't no such animal, no matter how hard the government markets it.
Personally my only change would be for a pocket with a hook knife to be stitched onto each harness, probably on the shoulder strap, done and done.
Also I'm a big fan of having some type of hook knife in anything you're belted into.
http://www.chutingstar.com/jack-the-ripper-hook-knife
I'm sure some staffer googled it for him, politicians never let a good death count go to waste when it can help them in the next election
That hook knife decent quality? Might order one of those.
James331
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Yes, I've used that same model to cut a floor belt in a drop zone plane when a jumper got snagged, 240lb ish guy hanging just beneath the door from his belt, cut like nothing, after he landed he had a photo of him holding the buckle that snagged his leg harness lol
From the picture I saw , it was a body harness similar to what construction workers use, with the attachment being in the center of the back.
Bill Watson
En-Route
Looks like they may have been attached to the ring on their back (!!) We'll find out I'm sure.
Bill Watson
En-Route
Maybe the FAA should carve out an 'experimental' category for commercial 'extreme sport' flights. No guarantees, no promises, no NTSB back seat driving, just go for it!
James331
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Except those people look like NYC types and were probably more likely to be killed by getting run over by a cabbie, getting shot/stabbed or raped to death, or contracting some disease, than anything GA related, including [gasp!] flying with the doors off. Not sure how many of you have flown with doors off or open, but it's really not a big deal....at all.
James331
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Gotta remeber it's marketed to city people.
Many people down there grow to full size "adults" and never even learn to drive a car.
If it were Texas or in the country you probably could just use normal belts.
Lachlan
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We carry a hook knife in our hang gliding harness, especially useful when aerotowing. If the primary and secondary releases fail or jam, you cut the line.
Except when excited passenger accidentally grabs the harness release and falls to his death. In all situations except for a water landing, redundant harnessing makes sense. And in the event of a water landing, even trained pilots have to move quickly to get out. These people were in a no win situation. Sucks, but that's the fact.
wsuffa
Touchdown! Greaser!
Wonder who he got campaign money from...
He has not been a friend to GA for some time now.
Zeldman
Touchdown! Greaser!
Them Duke boys, Bo and Luke along with Daisy learn a new way to antagonize Boss Hogg and Sherriff Roscoe P. Coltrane....
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denverpilot
Tied Down
Gotta remeber it's marketed to city people.
Many people down there grow to full size "adults" and never even learn to drive a car.
If it were Texas or in the country you probably could just use normal belts.
I love Texas.
Which company? The clients were for NYON, who have their own Astars, but this flight used a Liberty aircraft (different operator) and the flight was done under Part 91 Photo ops. Definitely a cluster....
It depends on the type of harness whether it is QD. Each harness in this aircraft had a webbing knife attached and its use was part of the pax brief. The harness was tethered to an aircraft hard point most likely a cargo ring on the floor.
The harnesses could also have been an insurance requirement in order to fly pax without doors.
Shotguns are easier and a lot more fun.
Matthew
Touchdown! Greaser!
I just saw the pix posted above.
Yeah, unfamiliar pax, nobody ever really pays attention to the safety briefing anyway, helicopter hits, pax panic, release belts, jump out, maybe try to swim, finally (maybe) realize they are still tethered, panic even more, helicopter rolls over, the end.
Clark1961
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The do helicopter hunts in Wyoming too. The weminiz tend to wear more clothes and the guns shoot a net...I love Texas.
Clark1961
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The helicopter started rolling when it ‘arrived’. Anybody not strapped in a seat was thrown to the low side to make sure the helicopter rolled further. In covered lifeboats that’s a really bad thing. In helicopters I bet it’s worse.
midwestpa24
Final Approach
3 accidents in 11 years for that chopper charter... clearly you know more about it than everyone.
I believe one was the mid-air between a helo and the Piper over the Hudson a few years back. The Piper basically overran the helo, and the controller watching the area was taking a personal phone call.
SkyDog58
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Canis Non Grata
Let's see...
Skydived out of helicopters (and planes) .... check
Rappelled out of helicopters .... check
Door gunner practice ... check
Routinely sitting by the door during NOE ... check
So if I voice an opinion on it, I hope it will be considered an educated one.
SkyDog58
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He knows a bit about aviation. GA and commercial.
Apparently so.
Lachlan
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He seems kind of slimy.
James331
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My comment was aimed towards the "extreme sport" comment about flying with the doors off.
Pre req for being a senator in NY, look at the governor. I like NY, lots of great things and some good people, but there are some skeezy folks in government for sure.
Matthew
Touchdown! Greaser!
The videos I saw stopped right about the time it went over on one side. I didn't see anything of how long it took to go all the way over or if anyone looked like they were able to get unbuckled but tangled up in the tethers or whatever else was going on. That would have sucked.
Clark1961
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In helicopter egress training they rolled the cage pretty quick. Dunno how close that is to reality. Doubt there is much of a righting moment once it lays on its side. Engines/transmission on one end, floats on other end just isn’t going to end well. On the other hand some of the big helicopters seem to do okay staying upright.
bnt83
Final Approach
I wonder if the floats are airbus (eurocopter) design
denverpilot
Tied Down
Which is why I love Texas. LOL.