Have the written tests become obsolete?

[bobmrg]

Since the FAA has decided DPE''s need to hit on everything in the ACS, like looooooong orals covering much of the info in the written, do you think testing an applicant face-to-face during the checkride is much more effective than taking a written test where many of the questions are out there in one form or another? Just curious as to what others think.

Using the private test as an example, the FAA lists eleven references with which an applicant for a plain-vanilla airplane pilot certificate is supposed to be familiar; one such reference is FARs 1, 61, 43, 71 and 91. All by itself that is a heck of a lot of information. The test writers assume that applicants have read all of these references and that any questions on their content are fair game. Do you seriously think that an oral exam can cover all of this ground? The deep thinkers behind test preparation know that if you look up or come across one tidbit of information you will become aware of additional information on the same page and just might learn something new in the process. That's why rote memorization does not create knowledgeable pilots....all they know are the answers to specific questions.

I have often suggested that applicants and certificated pilots take a copy of the FAR/AIM into a quiet room in their homes, a well-lit place where they will be uninterrupted as they sit and open the book to any page at random and learn new things. I'm sure that you have such a room in your home.

Bob

 

[Sundancer]

Using the private test as an example, the FAA lists eleven references with which an applicant for a plain-vanilla airplane pilot certificate is supposed to be familiar; one such reference is FARs 1, 61, 43, 71 and 91. All by itself that is a heck of a lot of information. The test writers assume that applicants have read all of these references and that any questions on their content are fair game. Do you seriously think that an oral exam can cover all of this ground? The deep thinkers behind test preparation know that if you look up or come across one tidbit of information you will become aware of additional information on the same page and just might learn something new in the process. That's why rote memorization does not create knowledgeable pilots....all they know are the answers to specific questions.

I have often suggested that applicants and certificated pilots take a copy of the FAR/AIM into a quiet room in their homes, a well-lit place where they will be uninterrupted as they sit and open the book to any page at random and learn new things. I'm sure that you have such a room in your home.

Bob

I like and admire that approach, and have done that very thing (cloistered myself with the AIM)- but I find it depressing that it's necessary; not the accumulation of knowledge, but the obscure, trivial, and marginally useful junk is so tightly woven in with the essential nuggets. A well thrown FAR/AIM cold kill an adult, and that's just silly, that so large a body of work exists, and has to be sifted, to placate a bureaucratic quagmire.

It shouldn't be that twisted up, and it sure doesn't serve learning, or clarity of understanding. Just my opinion; I could be wrong.

 

[old cfi]

But Bob, what about those students that use rote memorization? They get a copy of the test, with answers furnished, and after reading the first 4 words of the question, they know the answer. That's what I was questioning with the validity of the written. Hard to fool the DPE when they ask questions face to face.

And Sundance I agree with you about the AIM. Great info smothered by the trivial junk as you put it interwoven into good, practical, useful knowledge.

All I was asking is if folks thought there was too much redundancy in the written and oral as it now stands.

 

[denverpilot]

All I was asking is if folks thought there was too much redundancy in the written and oral as it now stands.

I don't think so. The written is testing a baseline information level, the oral (if done right) is testing whether that information can be applied to scenarios. So they're supposed to overlap in a sense. And folks that memorize questions and written "passing tips" without understanding the answers will have a tough time during the oral.

 

[bobmrg]

I'm on board with denverpilot. Pilots who pass tests by memorizing answers will be behind the curve. Good feeling to score high on the written but it is a shaky basis for learning a complex skill like flying in the national airspace system.

Bob

 

[Rykymus]

I still say that the knowledge test could easily replace the oral test, if they actually did it correctly. Adaptive computerized testing, simulations, scenarios, videos...The way the knowledge test is now is a complete joke when compared to what we could do.

 

[denverpilot]

I still say that the knowledge test could easily replace the oral test, if they actually did it correctly. Adaptive computerized testing, simulations, scenarios, videos...The way the knowledge test is now is a complete joke when compared to what we could do.

Could just make it an essay question based thing and you could wait six months until someone got around to grading it. Lots of Federal tests were that way in the 60s and 70s. "Show your work."

I think the current setup maximizes the "this person isn't ready for an oral" and weeds out the unprepared for the examiners who really do the work of digging in and seeing if someone studied and understands the required material at each level.

That said, old timer examiners tell me they know in fifteen minutes if someone is truly prepared and understands the necessary things. An unprepared person for an oral is incredibly easy to spot.

I was unprepared for my initial CFI oral. I got high 90s on the test. I think that was the one I got a 99 on. I knew the information but couldn't APPLY it in a teaching environment.

The DPE let me stretch that oral out as long as he could and said, "This isn't going well." And he was right. It wasn't. I figured out my mental prep mistake and came back and nailed it the next time. Had nothing at all to do with the score on the written.

You think the computer could test to see whether someone can teach? I don't.

It might be able to handle scenarios at the Private level, but those scenarios are going to get more complex and detailed at Commerical, CFI, and ATP. The system isn't just built for the Private rating, you know.