Has anybody had or known somebody who had a elevator/stabilator cable snap in flight?

Stewartb said:
Anyone who inspects a plane looks for frays in control cables and replaces the cable if he finds any.
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Not if they are following a manufacturers maintenance manual or even AC 43.13-1B. Manufacturers I have experience with allowed for a number of broken wires depending upon whether they pass through a fairlead or over a pulley, etc., and AC 43.13-1B addresses this in paragraph 7-149
 
Dan Thomas said:
Good maintenance catches all that. But--pilots tend to be cheap, and sometimes don't want to pay for the hours it takes to open things up and get a good look.
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Yep
 
About a week before I was to take my private pilot exam in my school's Remos GX, one went down at Westminster, MD (KDMW). The cause was a disconnected push rod to the elevator. The NTSB describes the setup of elevators and elevator:
"The airplane was of composite carbon fiber monocoque construction, and was designed with the ability to fold both wings back to facilitate storage and transportation. In addition, both wings and the horizontal stabilizer were removable. The flight controls were actuated by a series of push-pull rods. The respective control push-pull rods for the left and right ailerons, and elevator featured a "quick-fastener" to disconnect and reconnect the respective flight control push-pull rod."

The final approach ended as follows:
"When the airplane was on short final, over the grass area just prior to the runway threshold, it pitched "sharply nose down", and impacted the ground."

The NTSB assigns the blame to the pilot for not properly inspecting the quick-fastener and making sure it was properly engaged. In addition, the BRS was padlocked and the key on the same key ring as the ignition key, which was in the ignition switch.

The speculation was that he pulled power once he was over the threshold, and having no elevator control, was unable to bring the nose back up. Perhaps leaving the power on or more aggressive use of the trim might have got him closer to the ground and the subsequent incident would have been survivable.

You can imagine that my DPE made sure that we inspected the quick-fasteners very, very closely.

The accident report is at https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/R...ID=20120615X34118&AKey=1&RType=Final&IType=FA
 
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Had an instructor who was big on failing things. Lots of things. Remember practicing to land a 150 with all flight control cables "failed."

Was taught to use throttle, trim, and both doors as alternative controls for the airplane. Not really a big deal in that plane - kind of fun, actually.
 
Ryanb said:
Yeah, I know that works and I've tried it at altitude, but it seems like it would be rather difficult during an approach to landing, especially if it was windy. I'm sure it can be done, it's just hard for me to picture without never having done it. I need to practice that.

Something I hope to never experience in actuality.
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Just remember...Captain Haynes & crew were almost able to land a DC-10 with no elevator, aileron, OR rudder. Losing a single control should be a piece of cake! ;)
 
This is like driving down the highway worried that your steering wheel will pop off in your hands... GEEZE....!
 
A poster on this very site lost an elevator cable, I believe on a Decathalon (some sort of taildragger). Flew it home to its grass strip and nosed it over onto its back on landing.

Its a rather hard hating to simulate, since its difficult to turn the yoke while not pushing on it. I couldn't land with just the doors since I only got one. Lets here it for pushrod controls.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
None of this applies to grummans though right?
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Grummans have a combination of pushrods, and cables, but yes a cable can break and you can loose control surface control. Study your systems now that you own one. I had an experience A&P/IA over tighten my elevator cable. I felt it on the test flight in the pattern. The pitch control was really heavy, and difficult. I landed, and showed it to him. It was way, way too tight. He corrected it, but it didn't give me much confidence in him after that, so I didn't use him again. It was so tight it could have snapped.
 
ElPaso Pilot said:
Had an instructor who was big on failing things. Lots of things. Remember practicing to land a 150 with all flight control cables "failed."

Was taught to use throttle, trim, and both doors as alternative controls for the airplane. Not really a big deal in that plane - kind of fun, actually.
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Towards the end of primary training, my instructor had me fly similar to this. We were in the practice area, and after I called approach to start coming back, he challenged me to get as close to the runway as I could without touching the yoke. Rudder, throttle, and trim. Doors not allowed, but had the rudder. Got about 20agl before he told me to grab the yoke.

Could you flare and do a beautimus landing? Probably not. Could you get yourself back to the runway environment where rescue trucks are waiting? Absolutely.
 
orange said:
I would hate to be at 6k feet and then snap and I'm in a full (nose-down) dive into whatever is below me knowing that I will be dead in less than 2 minutes.
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Might suggest that you spend more time with a good instructor to help you understand the performance envelope of the plane and play around with situations like this. It would really help you understand how to react and figure out how to fly the plane if a situation did occur.

Why would you think that a trimmed airplane would put you into a full nose down dive if a control cable snapped?

Why would that be any different than taking your hand off the yoke?
 
This thread reminded me:

Many years ago I caught a local news story about a skydiver fatality. They guy had a camera on his helmet, jumped, then realized he had forgotten his chute. Apparently this was the first time he'd used a camera and had spent so much time fiddling with it that he forgot to put on his chute. No one else either noticed or mentioned it.

The news guy said, "Coming up next, a skydiver's worst nightmare!"

The next day I was talking to a buddy of mine who also saw that story. He's a very experience skydiver and instructor. He said, "THAT'S not my worst nightmare. I never lose sleep worrying about forgetting my parachute."
 
MauleSkinner said:
There are usually two elevator cables...one for "up" and one for "down.

If the "up" cable breaks, trimming nose up so you always have to hold nose-down pressure will normally allow you to fly with the elevator. If the "down" cable breaks, trim nose down so you have to hold nose-up pressure.
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That is exactly what I was thinking. And fly a nice stable approach with preferably a nice long runway.
 
I've had similar thoughts cross my mind about losing a cable, etc., but honestly at least in the 172 and Archer they're so docile I feel like you could lose elevator and aileron and as long as you had rudder and trim you could land the thing, or at least live through a forced landing

The Cirrus I occasionally fly has "fake" trim (so to speak, queue Citizen5000000) so I'm more aware of the risk there... but I guess that's when you pull the red handle
 
Not quite the same thing, but somewhere, on one of these colored boards, is a story where I had the stabilator trim break free in an early model C-182. I would move the elevator, and the stabilator would simply move back to equilibrium. Ended up holding the trim wheel with one hand while flaring with the other. Fun times!
 
Happened to a student of my CFI and she reportedly put it down safe. Because of that we flew a few practice approaches using noting but power and trim to manage the descent. Didn't actually land hands off but saw how it was entirely possible to get down and land with no elevator control.

He also taught me how to steer with the doors. That was fun.

You don't need no stinkin yoke control to fly!
 
ERA12FA484
Broken aileron control cable

It is likely that, during the airplane’s maintenance inspection 6 months before the accident, the mechanic failed to detect the corroded cable due to the difficulty in visually seeing the cable.
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Now THAT'S a scary one.
 
And that's why cable inspections should be visual/tactile. Controls should be displaced sufficiently in order to thoroughly inspect visually and by running a cloth over them to feel for snags.
 
I can imagine if a control cable broke to the stabilator on my baby Beech, I would be in a world of sh.t. That's a big control surface to have no control over. Yes power settings and trim may help but I don't think it would be enough to make a controlled landing.

Good maintenance and inspections are the key to preventing such a failure. During my training 20+ years ago I found a cotter key missing on an elevator attach bolt during per flight. The 172 had just undergone some sort of maintenance on the tail and I was the first one to fly it.
 
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TWO THINGS

1.)
Shawn said:
You don't need no stinkin yoke control to fly!
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Agree. During long cross countries when I'm just sitting there in level stable trimmed flight over no-man's-land I'll see if I can "fly" the plane just by moving my weight around... and you'd be surprised how much effect it has even just leaning forward or back 6 inches... and that's in an Archer II... so not something necessarily tiny or skimpy

2.)
There was a freaking Airbus that landed after it lost all its hydraulics: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_Baghdad_DHL_attempted_shootdown_incident
upload_2017-6-30_13-44-25.png

**Incidentally, I know it's fun to bash Airbus and the whole "if it ain't Boeing I ain't going" but damn... the thing flew with a major portion of its wing missing and virtually no means to control it... that's some B-17 / B-52 / A-10 level bad-assery right there!!
 
A guy I knew in AK had elevator cable turnbuckles loosen gradually as he was flying his C185. They weren't safetied. Elevator control gradually got sloppy. He figured out what was going on, flew the rest of the way to Anchorage via trim, and gentle maneuvers and had it fixed.

At least with the elevator most all aircraft have trim. If it were one of the others, such as the above mentioned rudder, life gets more interesting, and possibly shorter.
 
gsengle said:
Totally survivable. In my airplane the autopilot flies the elevator trim. No actual elevator required.
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All well and good IF you have autopilot. Relatively few GA planes do.
 
I was thinking about this just the other day. I fly an Ercoupe, recently purchased. The datum line is the firewall. If I lean forward just a little, the plane gently dips the nose. So... maybe I could lean way back for a little nose up action. Lean forward for nose down. I'll have to try it sometime. At altitude, of course.
 
Watched a video where a cfi would land a 172 with only the rudder, power and trim.
 
orange said:
Are you sure?
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Yep. Keep the plane in trim and this won't happen.

The Otter has a long history of cable failures. The accident you referred to happened because the PIC didn't recognize the problem in time.
"The CAR 3 regulation, basis of certification for the DHC6, requires a flight test demonstrating the aeroplane’s capacity to land using only the elevator trim in the case of failure of the primary longitudinal control of the aeroplane."

Yes - I am sure.
 
Fly a Mooney and there are no cables. It is all control rods. Also provides that fighter feel if you need to flick it around. No cable lag.
 
Ken Thompson said:
All well and good IF you have autopilot. Relatively few GA planes do.
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You have a trim wheel don't you? Why aren't people getting this....


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Ken Thompson said:
All well and good IF you have autopilot. Relatively few GA planes do.
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I think what @gsengle meant is that the plane can be flown relatively well with just trim, IE, most autopilots I've used manipulate the trim wheel, not the actual control surface itself directly
 
P.S. - it is simulated, but shows how much of a handful this can be and while being able to use trim is an option, definitely easier said than done. I don't usually watch this guy's videos because I'm jealous of his TBM, but he does indicate that "it is the trickiest thing he's ever done"

*Las Vegas has a long runway, surprised he used flaps, I would think flaps would dull the controls and make the trim sensitivity a lot mushier and require much more constant correction

*about 10:30 in
 
Tantalum said:
*Las Vegas has a long runway, surprised he used flaps, I would think flaps would dull the controls and make the trim sensitivity a lot mushier and require much more constant correction
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A more important reason to not use flaps would be that no flaps gives a flatter approach path and less attitude change required to flare and land---easier to manage with trim and power and better likelihood of a good outcome.
 
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