Happy Robert E. Lee's birthday!

Status
Not open for further replies.
Just missed Benedict Arnold's birthday party January 14.
 
Captain said:
Lol, you seem to have identified yourself. You see, I've not said a word against Gen. Lee so your little triva wasn't needed. To you yokles who think I'm an idiot my IQ has been tested north of 160. Not bragging, just a fact.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the people on this forum are so clueless. There there.

vagisil-cream.jpg
 
AuntPeggy said:
Just missed Benedict Arnold's birthday party January 14.
Click to expand...

Well I guess it depends what you believe in, huh? To the Brits Arnold was a hero. To a lot of America, especially those that valued our founding, states rights principles, so was Lee, but that is all I will say about that as I don't want to get into trouble.

"Moderators, please delete, problem solved." What a freakin joke.
 
Sure, just eliminate a certain "zone" and the problem will go away.....

Keep up the good work, Moderators.
 
KeithASanford said:
Sure, just eliminate a certain "zone" and the problem will go away.....

Keep up the good work, Moderators.
Click to expand...

well, certain posters have pretty much gone away....

but violating the ROC is ok
 
172andyou said:
1) Washington supported the elimination of slavery, but apparently felt that he couldn't unilaterally disarm and still run a business. Jefferson knew it was wrong "Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that his justice cannot sleep forever". Jefferson was instrumental in banning slave imports to Virginia. As President he banned international slave trading. But, yeah, I agree that we need to look at the totality of a persons life, not just the stuff that is convenient to hero worship.

2) Washington died 60 years prior to the civil war. By the time the civil war came around there was no longer any excuse to support slavery.

3) Most importantly, I'm commenting about people *today* who still worship at the feet of those who were so clearly, then and now, morally in the wrong. Even if we partially excuse some of the traitors by saying things like "oh, it's how they were raised" or "they didn't know better" the people *today* absolutely do know better and still fly the flag and worship traitors who were willing to destroy the country to keep humans as property.
Click to expand...

Washington died a slave owner, yet people of all walks of life respect and admire him today for his legacy. If you read his history, and that of any significant historical figure, you'll realize that nobody was perfect, especially when measured by today's standards, yet we still have people that were heads and shoulders above the rest. You may wish to overlook certain "imperfections" in your own heroes, while others do the same with theirs. The bottom line is that humanity and civilization keep evolving, and what's perfectly acceptable to you today can easily become "sickening" to some individuals in future generations.
 
RotorDude said:
Washington died a slave owner, yet people of all walks of life respect and admire him today for his legacy. If you read his history, and that of any significant historical figure, you'll realize that nobody was perfect, especially when measured by today's standards, yet we still have people that were heads and shoulders above the rest. You may wish to overlook certain "imperfections" in your own heroes, while others do the same with theirs. The bottom line is that humanity and civilization keep evolving, and what's perfectly acceptable to you today can easily become "sickening" to some individuals in future generations.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that's all true. But remember that there were enough people in the 1860's that knew slavery was wrong that the traitorous south tried to destroy the country to get away from the majority of people that knew slavery was morally wrong. Washington was more of a mixed bag than your statement implies. He did die a slave owner, you are 100% right. Part of his will was that he freed his slaves though, so lets not leave that part of the story out. Martha, however, decided to keep hers and left them to her heirs when she died.

And, again, the point is that the south seceded to keep slaves. That wasn't noble in the 1860's and it is even less noble today. The people who idolize the confederacy are on the wrong side of history.
 
Last edited:
RotorAndWing said:
Not offended here. Just amazed at your lack of knowledge on the subject. But I'm sure your uber liberal professor told you his version of history and you took the bait.
Click to expand...

I would be surprised to see you find one thing I've said in this thread that wasn't accurate. But, go ahead and be offended that you're being called out if that is what you need to do to avoid that facts of the matter.
 
172andyou said:
Yeah, that's all true. But remember that there were enough people in the 1860's that knew slavery was wrong that the traitorous south tried to destroy the country to get away from the majority of people that knew slavery was morally wrong. Washington was more of a mixed bag. He did die a slave owner, you are 100% right. Part of his will was that he freed his slaves though, so lets not leave that part of the story out. Martha, however, decided to keep hers and left them to her heirs when she died.
Click to expand...

You are forgetting or neglecting the fact that the "country" in those days was more of a confederation or union of states than it is today. So being loyal to one's home state wasn't the equivalent of being a "traitor".
Regarding "knowing" what's right and wrong, today some people consider eating or owning animals "wrong". Perhaps in a few generations they will be the majority, and by your standards, virtually all today's heroes will be "sickening" carnivores.
 
RotorDude said:
You are forgetting or neglecting the fact that the "country" in those days was more of a confederation or union of states than it is today. So being loyal to one's home state wasn't the equivalent of being a "traitor".
Regarding "knowing" what's right and wrong, today some people consider eating or owning animals "wrong". Perhaps in a few generations they will be the majority, and by your standards, virtually all today's heroes will be "sickening" carnivores.
Click to expand...

Nah, the point is that *in that era* it was well understood that keeping slaves was wrong. The british had stopped by a series of steps beginning in the early 1800's and ending in 1833 with the complete abolition of slavery, the north had stopped (I think completely, at least mostly). The south was morally in the wrong even in that era. And, of course, the point is still that those who idolize those immoral traitors even with the benefit of over a 150 years of hindsight are immensely more in the wrong.
 
172andyou said:
Nah, the point is that *in that era* it was well understood that keeping slaves was wrong. The british had stopped by a series of steps beginning in the early 1800's and ending in 1833 with the complete abolition of slavery, the north had stopped (I think completely, at least mostly). The south was morally in the wrong even in that era. And, of course, the point is still that those who idolize those immoral traitors even with the benefit of over a 150 years of hindsight are immensely more in the wrong.
Click to expand...

"Well understood" by whom? The Animal Rights activists today will tell you it's "well understood" that animals deserve freedom and we should eat our veggies. Forcing our morality on others is never a good thing, regardless of era.
 
RotorDude said:
"Well understood" by whom?
Click to expand...

By the populations of many nations that had, or were in the process of, eliminating slavery.

And the people today who worship the confederacy have even less of an excuse.
 
Mason said:
If you were 18 in 1865, you would be 110 in 1957.
Click to expand...
I said people's fathers and grandfathers. . .I'm pretty sure I didn't meet any veterans of the Civil War, not in the 1950s. Once anecdote, though not sure it's correct:

The guy who invented a version of the carbine (Spencer? Spenser?) met Abe Lincoln. Spencer had a child, late in life, who was still around in the 1990s (I think he was the Spencer Air Car designer)

So, until the 1990's, you could have talked to a guy who's father spoke with Lincoln. So, it is likely I met, as a really young child, people who had fathers and grandfathers who fought in the Civil War.
 
172andyou said:
By the populations of many nations that had, or were in the process of, eliminating slavery.

And the people today who worship the confederacy have even less of an excuse.
Click to expand...

Again, morality is not absolute, and evolves with time, per my above example.
I have no doubt that future generations would consider you, or people you admire today, as "immoral".
 
The thread was on the line of acceptability to begin with, then stepped over the line.

From the top of the page:

NOTE: Politics and religion and any other topic likely to become highly charged are not allowed, and threads may be deleted or closed if they start or trend, respectively, towards "spin" topics.
Click to expand...

Closed by MC vote.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top