Had a friend die today :(

DesertNomad

DesertNomad

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DesertNomad
Crash of an A36 Bonanza on short final in Reno... got passed by a 757 and looks like wake turbulence rolled him into the ground. The guy has thousands of hours, is a CFII and owns a local flight school.

:(

RIP. Be careful out there.
 
DesertNomad said:
Crash of an A36 Bonanza on short final in Reno... got passed by a 757 and looks like wake turbulence rolled him into the ground.

Why did a 757 pass him on short final??? Who's fault was this? Did the 757 not see him? Or did he not know what could happen?
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The tower on live ATC has my friend on a 4mi left base for 16L and the 757 (FedEx) on a 9mi final for 16R. My friend reported that he saw the 757. 16R has a displaced threshold so the 757 would have been aiming for maybe 2500' or so further south than the start of 16L. No word yet on a cause but it looks like they ended up parallel to each other.
 
Condolences. That really sucks.

Wake turbulence is not to be trifled with. It almost got me on final approach to Albuquerque, back in '04.
 
Very sorry to hear. A parallel runway setup with the winds blowing the wake into the final of the light aircraft can be a sneaky setup. Depending on distances, timing and winds, one may need a good margin to avoid. It sounds like he may of flown into Reno a lot, or was based there?

Just another thing to be on 'red alert' about for many when we occasionally venture towards the 'Class C' or busier airports. It sounds like this was a very experienced pilot too.

Again, tragic, condolences to family & friends.
 
My condolences. Wake turbulence is no joke. I've experienced it and low level and it is scary.
 
sourdough44 said:
Very sorry to hear. A parallel runway setup with the winds blowing the wake into the final of the light aircraft can be a sneaky setup. Depending on distances, timing and winds, one may need a good margin to avoid. It sounds like he may of flown into Reno a lot, or was based there?
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He was based here and ran a flight school. I have about 14 hours logged with him (he was a CFII) and two years ago I flew the plane that crashed yesterday.
 
sourdough44 said:
A parallel runway setup with the winds blowing the wake into the final of the light aircraft can be a sneaky setup. Depending on distances, timing and winds, one may need a good margin to avoid.
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It's even sneakier than that at Reno. The airport layout is conducive to light airplanes being well below the approach path of the airliners on the parallel runway.

The centerlines of the two runways are 800' apart. The north ends of the runways are even with each other, and while 16L (the general aviation runway) has no displaced threshhold, the threshhold of 16R (the air carrier runway) is displaced 1,000'. And there is frequently a crosswind from the west, which would tend to drift the airliners' wake turbulence toward 16L.

You need to stay above the approach path of the heavy, at least until it touches down. 16L is 9,000' long, which gives you a lot of room, even in the high D.A. environment. But when the heavy is overtaking you from behind, it can be difficult to to gauge the relative approach paths.

KRNO.jpg
 
Dang, sorry to hear about your friend, my condolences.

I cannot agree more with the sentiment here, wake turbulence is dangerous, especially since it cannot be seen, only predicted and guessed. Thus not easy to avoid 100%.
Stay vigilant and don't let it get you!
 
Pilawt said:
It's even sneakier than that at Reno. The airport layout is conducive to light airplanes being well below the approach path of the airliners on the parallel runway.

The centerlines of the two runways are 800' apart. The north ends of the runways are even with each other, and while 16L (the general aviation runway) has no displaced threshhold, the threshhold of 16R (the air carrier runway) is displaced 1,000'. And there is frequently a crosswind from the west, which would tend to drift the airliners' wake turbulence toward 16L.

You need to stay above the approach path of the heavy, at least until it touches down. 16L is 9,000' long, which gives you a lot of room, even in the high D.A. environment. But when the heavy is overtaking you from behind, it can be difficult to to gauge the relative approach paths.

View attachment 47495
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wow. it's like a perfect storm for wake turbulence.
 
Really sorry for your loss, but as you age more and more of your friends will pass. it's some thing you never get used to.
 
Get up and go flying asap. It somehow makes it easier. We lost a good buddy to flying, and we all went up as soon as possible as we know that's what he would have wanted us to to.

While it wasn't wake turbulence, I got nailed right before touchdown by turbulence from a giant taxiing helicopter. Make things very interesting. Can't imagine a 7X7.
 
Man, I feel terrible for your friend and his family and friends. My condolences.

I've read that wake turbulence from a 757 is the worst of any airliner due to the efficiency of its wing. My CFII and I were almost taken down by one back in 1994. It was truly terrifying and we were lucky to recover. I'll tell you, if you've ever survived a wake turbulence encounter you definitely never want to experience it again.

I fly into KSNA a lot and nothing bothers me more about it than the very real possibility of WT encounters. The commercial and GA runways are only 500' apart, and you're almost always landing in parallel with a 737. I did just the other day. I fly very high, steep approaches there and have been lucky so far.
 
DesertNomad said:
The tower on live ATC has my friend on a 4mi left base for 16L and the 757 (FedEx) on a 9mi final for 16R. My friend reported that he saw the 757. 16R has a displaced threshold so the 757 would have been aiming for maybe 2500' or so further south than the start of 16L. No word yet on a cause but it looks like they ended up parallel to each other.
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"Sanford Friedlander witnessed the whole ordeal from the Reno-Tahoe International Airport, where officials say the plane was inbound to land.

"It looked like it was flying normally for a moment, then it sort of just flipped vertically and went straight into the ground. Then a big fireball. And a big cloud of black smoke," said Friedlander."
http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2016/08/accident-occurred-august-30-2016-in.html
 
PilotRPI said:
Get up and go flying asap. It somehow makes it easier. We lost a good buddy to flying, and we all went up as soon as possible as we know that's what he would have wanted us to to.

While it wasn't wake turbulence, I got nailed right before touchdown by turbulence from a giant taxiing helicopter. Make things very interesting. Can't imagine a 7X7.
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I can slightly imagine how that was like.

Years ago in Alaska, a CH-46 crossed the runway in front of me (unannounced) while I was on very short final in a C-207. I was about 50 to 60 feet off the ground as the 46 crossed about 200 feet in front of me, right to left. I made a right turn to miss the 46 when all hell broke loose.

For about 30 seconds, or years, I don't know which, I was watching the ground to see where we were going to hit. The ride was wild, beyond anything I had ever experienced in a plane before or since. I had absolutely no control of the plane. Later one of the FSS guys told me he had his hand on the crash alarm as he watched everything unfold. He could not believe I did not crash.

I finally regained control, about 30 feet off the ground, about 60 degrees off runway centerline and heading towards some airport buildings. I made a tight circle back to land. I landed, taxied right up to the CH-46, jumped out, targeted the A/C commander and proceeded to show him how I felt about the situation. Enlisted personnel pulled him away from me, and blocked me from getting back to him. I still have one of his light colonel leafs that came off in my hand.

I raced sprint cars many years ago. I had a crash where I flipped end over end, into and over the catch fence and out into the parking lot. That was nothing compared to the ride I took in the 207 that day.

Wake turbulence is real, and strong. I never waive the waiting period to take off behind a larger A/C, and I do pay very close attention to where a landing plane touches down, and the wind speed and direction.
 
We have CH-47s at my airport. They will sometimes hover-taxi across the rwy for various reasons. I make sure to keep an eye out for that.
 
Matthew said:
We have CH-47s at my airport. They will sometimes hover-taxi across the rwy for various reasons. I make sure to keep an eye out for that.
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A local airport close to me has a Nat Guard helicopter base next to it, and they often use the runway. Same deal, be careful and just wait it out.
 
colojo said:
Man, I feel terrible for your friend and his family and friends. My condolences.

I've read that wake turbulence from a 757 is the worst of any airliner due to the efficiency of its wing. My CFII and I were almost taken down by one back in 1994. It was truly terrifying and we were lucky to recover. I'll tell you, if you've ever survived a wake turbulence encounter you definitely never want to experience it again.

I fly into KSNA a lot and nothing bothers me more about it than the very real possibility of WT encounters. The commercial and GA runways are only 500' apart, and you're almost always landing in parallel with a 737. I did just the other day. I fly very high, steep approaches there and have been lucky so far.
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Is it worth asking to land upwind of the parallel traffic? It seems it might be worth the delay.
 
colojo said:
I know this has been posted before but it comes to mind:

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Yikes!! It's amazing how long that wake lasted for, especially from a blackhawk. I can't imagine if that was a heavy airliner. :hairraise:
 
MAKG1 said:
Is it worth asking to land upwind of the parallel traffic? It seems it might be worth the delay.
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At SNA the parallel GA runway is less than 2900' long, so not many options other than going around. And there too, if there is a crosswind it's usually from the west, blowing the wakes toward the GA runway.

Over the threshhold at SNA I've also experienced jet blast from airliners holding short between the runways. Startling, but it doesn't last long.
 
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