Guidance Needed.

J

Jordan Wall

Filing Flight Plan
Joined
Dec 8, 2022
Messages
10
Display Name
Display name:
jwall3310
I need some guidance on what I can do from here....

I started flight training over 14 years ago and had already passed medical then but due to certain circumstances, I stopped pursuing obtaining my pilots license at that time. Fast forward to now, I am trying to finish up my flight training and applied for medical certification again since mine had expired of course. Im just going for class 3 license and in hindsight I should of just done basic med and been done but I didn't and now I am stuck with this medical application that seems to be dragging on.

I used to be on an unapproved anxiety medication that my doctor had prescribed over 10 years ago and I should have asked to come off of them by now because that was mainly situational anxiety. I do not have any anxiety issues any longer and have been off the medication for over 6 months now. Other than that, I am completely healthy.

They first requested more information from my primary physician which we sent in and explained that I was off the medication and doing well. Now they are saying I am needing a "thorough interview with a board certified Psychiatrist."

So now I have to pay $3,000 for this unnecessary interview and I am having a heck of a time finding one near me that can fit me in within the 60 day deadline window. Located in NC.

Any tips, tricks, advice on how to preceed from here?

Thanks
 
Only tip is to do exactly what the FAA asks. Maybe @bbchien or @lbfjr can give pointers on who to see.

If you’re motivated and open to travel, I’m sure the right person can fir you in.
 
Jordan Wall said:
I need some guidance on what I can do from here....

I started flight training over 14 years ago and had already passed medical then but due to certain circumstances, I stopped pursuing obtaining my pilots license at that time. Fast forward to now, I am trying to finish up my flight training and applied for medical certification again since mine had expired of course. Im just going for class 3 license and in hindsight I should of just done basic med and been done but I didn't and now I am stuck with this medical application that seems to be dragging on.

I used to be on an unapproved anxiety medication that my doctor had prescribed over 10 years ago and I should have asked to come off of them by now because that was mainly situational anxiety. I do not have any anxiety issues any longer and have been off the medication for over 6 months now. Other than that, I am completely healthy.

They first requested more information from my primary physician which we sent in and explained that I was off the medication and doing well. Now they are saying I am needing a "thorough interview with a board certified Psychiatrist."

So now I have to pay $3,000 for this unnecessary interview and I am having a heck of a time finding one near me that can fit me in within the 60 day deadline window. Located in NC.

Any tips, tricks, advice on how to preceed from here?

Thanks
Click to expand...
I went through the same thing. Took a break from flying for years. Depression/anxiety 3 years ago, 1.5 years on an SSRI that was not approved because I never checked and wasn't thinking ahead. Got off them, applied for a new 3rd class. Same process started. Had to supply all psych visit notes, pharmacy records, and an assessment of my current state by same doc. 6 months later I got my Special Issuance for Depression.

You have to comply with whatever they asked already. You have to be patient. You will fly again, it just will take at least 6 months of waiting for them to go through your hopefully positive reports. Once you get your SI, use it, let it quietly expire then get BasicMed. If you ever drank too much alcohol in the past keep that to yourself in further interviews. That is a red flag. In my research, deferred medicals (which you and I are in) are approved eventually at 95% if you continue supplying the requested info. Most denials are from pilots who opt to give up and stop providing requested documents.
 
Jordan Wall said:
How would I request an extension? I know getting anyone to answer is a beast in and of itself.
Click to expand...
I haven't done it myself, but I read in another thread that calling them and asking should work. @Zeldman said he did that before - tagging so maybe he will come here to confirm.

A reasonable person should understand that getting doctors to see new patients nowadays is often difficult, but the FAA's default "Answer in 60 days or else you're grounded forever!" has not been updated, unfortunately.
 
FatherPilot said:
I went through the same thing. Took a break from flying for years. Depression/anxiety 3 years ago, 1.5 years on an SSRI that was not approved because I never checked and wasn't thinking ahead. Got off them, applied for a new 3rd class. Same process started. Had to supply all psych visit notes, pharmacy records, and an assessment of my current state by same doc. 6 months later I got my Special Issuance for Depression.

You have to comply with whatever they asked already. You have to be patient. You will fly again, it just will take at least 6 months of waiting for them to go through your hopefully positive reports. Once you get your SI, use it, let it quietly expire then get BasicMed. If you ever drank too much alcohol in the past keep that to yourself in further interviews. That is a red flag. In my research, deferred medicals (which you and I are in) are approved eventually at 95% if you continue supplying the requested info. Most denials are from pilots who opt to give up and stop providing requested documents.
Click to expand...

Great info, thanks! So when you say Special Issuance, is that what I may get once I do the psych eval? And can you explain what you mean by letting it expire? You let the medical application expire or something else?
 
A special issuance is what you would get after they determine your scores on the evals are satisfactory. You will get a special issuance medical that you then let expire, and use Basic Med.

Don't let your medical application expire. I think at this point, if you do that, you're automatically denied.
 
SkyChaser said:
A special issuance is what you would get after they determine your scores on the evals are satisfactory. You will get a special issuance medical that you then let expire, and use Basic Med.

Don't let your medical application expire. I think at this point, if you do that, you're automatically denied.
Click to expand...

Got it, thanks
 
Baked Potato said:
I haven't done it myself, but I read in another thread that calling them and asking should work. @Zeldman said he did that before - tagging so maybe he will come here to confirm..
Click to expand...

I did it back in 2019. Tuesday morning, 0759 OKC time; took 4 dial attempts to get to a person.

Have the case # from the upper right corner of the letter handy, you’re going to need it.

Having done a couple of back and forth SIs with the FAA, most people make it harder on themselves than the FAA does. Little things like avoiding opening yhe letter. Hemming and hawing about seeing the specialist. Fretting over cost which, even if it’s $3-5K, is a drop in the bucket training wise.

The hardest part may be finding the right specialist in FAA speak. This is where a consult w/Doc Bruce or Doc Fowler, or a Sr AME who has handled hard cases before is worth the pittance they ask for in pay. The check I wrote to Doc Bruce was less than what I paid for a doc-in-a-box BasicMed exam. The guidance was, like the old Mastercard ad, priceless.
 
TCABM said:
I did it back in 2019. Tuesday morning, 0759 OKC time; took 4 dial attempts to get to a person.

Have the case # from the upper right corner of the letter handy, you’re going to need it.

Having done a couple of back and forth SIs with the FAA, most people make it harder on themselves than the FAA does. Little things like avoiding opening yhe letter. Hemming and hawing about seeing the specialist. Fretting over cost which, even if it’s $3-5K, is a drop in the bucket training wise.

The hardest part may be finding the right specialist in FAA speak. This is where a consult w/Doc Bruce or Doc Fowler, or a Sr AME who has handled hard cases before is worth the pittance they ask for in pay. The check I wrote to Doc Bruce was less than what I paid for a doc-in-a-box BasicMed exam. The guidance was, like the old Mastercard ad, priceless.
Click to expand...

How would I get in contact with Dr Bruce or Dr Fowler?
 
Jordan Wall said:
How would I request an extension? I know getting anyone to answer is a beast in and of itself.
Click to expand...

write them! And now you do as they instruct, nothing more ... nothing less. do not concern yourself with SI's etc.
 
From my Lieutenant's view of the universe:

You won't make it in time. All the qualified guys are booked out through February.
Accept the denial, don't escalate (appeal), regroup and apply again when you have all that you need.
 
Jordan Wall said:
How would I get in contact with Dr Bruce or Dr Fowler?
Click to expand...

Doc Bruce’s info is above.

Meet Doc Fowler:

lbfjrmd said:
write them! And now you do as they instruct, nothing more ... nothing less. do not concern yourself with SI's etc.
Click to expand...

Louis B Fowler, MD
431 E GOVERNMENT ST
Pensacola, Florida 32501
Voice: (850) 433-9391

I’m sure he has a website, too.
 
bbchien said:
From my Lieutenant's view of the universe:

You won't make it in time. All the qualified guys are booked out through February.
Accept the denial, don't escalate (appeal), regroup and apply again when you have all that you need.
Click to expand...
Curious - how many extensions can you get? Can you keep getting them until you get your paperwork?
 
I am in a similar situation (PPL training has begun, and thank you Dr. Bruce for your valuable advice) ... I'm on an approved SSRI and have taken Ativan PRN in the past, for sleep. Am going to consult with HIMS AME when I can find an appointment. I've never been denied so the SP option is still open and I want to keep it that way.

Just trying now to determine if the SSRI protocol for Decision Path II SI will always mean CogScreen tests and BCP Psychiatrist visits every six months. Not sure I can feasibly do that. I know it's case-by-case, but LMK if anyone has experience. Thank You.
 
Jordan Wall said:
Im just going for class 3 license and in hindsight I should of just done basic med and been done but I didn't and now I am stuck with this medical application that seems to be dragging on.
Click to expand...

That's a hard lesson to learn. For people in a similar situation they should know that they could resume training immediately under Basic Med while they research the feasibility of pursuing a Class 3 medical. I read the other day that there are now over 60,000 pilots operating under Basic Med.

You should be able to get an extension and be able to get certified at the added time and cost but it could be worse, and it IS worse for a lot of applicants.
 
Last edited:
Petrus_829 said:
I am in a similar situation (PPL training has begun, and thank you Dr. Bruce for your valuable advice) ... I'm on an approved SSRI and have taken Ativan PRN in the past, for sleep. Am going to consult with HIMS AME when I can find an appointment. I've never been denied so the SP option is still open and I want to keep it that way.

Just trying now to determine if the SSRI protocol for Decision Path II SI will always mean CogScreen tests and BCP Psychiatrist visits every six months. Not sure I can feasibly do that. I know it's case-by-case, but LMK if anyone has experience. Thank You.
Click to expand...
It does. Every year for First & second class.
 
dbahn said:
That's a hard lesson to learn. For people in a similar situation they should know that they could resume training immediately under Basic Med while they research the feasibility of pursuing a Class 3 medical. I read the other day that there are now over 60,000 pilots operating under Basic Med.

You should be able to get an extension and be able to get certified at the added time and cost but it could be worse, and it IS worse for a lot of applicants.
Click to expand...

Can you still do Basic Med with an open Class 3 medical? Or would one have to get the class 3 medical and then maybe do Basic Med later on.
 
Jordan Wall said:
Can you still do Basic Med with an open Class 3 medical? Or would one have to get the class 3 medical and then maybe do Basic Med later on.
Click to expand...

You can get a class 3 medical and then immediately go to your primary care doc or someone similar and get the Basic Med paperwork done, even though your class 3 is still valid. You have to actually have or have had a medical, though, before Basic Med becomes an option.
 
SkyChaser said:
You can get a class 3 medical and then immediately go to your primary care doc or someone similar and get the Basic Med paperwork done, even though your class 3 is still valid. You have to actually have or have had a medical, though, before Basic Med becomes an option.
Click to expand...

I had an approved class 3 medical back in 2008 when I first started pursuing getting my license. In hindsight I should of done Basic Med this go around instead of opening up another class 3 medical application. Guessing theres no way to back track now though?
 
Jordan Wall said:
I had an approved class 3 medical back in 2008 when I first started pursuing getting my license. In hindsight I should of done Basic Med this go around instead of opening up another class 3 medical application. Guessing theres no way to back track now though?
Click to expand...

Can’t unring the bell once the AME has made the application active.
 
Jordan Wall said:
I had an approved class 3 medical back in 2008 when I first started pursuing getting my license. In hindsight I should of done Basic Med this go around instead of opening up another class 3 medical application. Guessing theres no way to back track now though?
Click to expand...
Once the AME has input the number of your application into the system, the only way to go back to BasicMed is to succeed in getting the FAA medical certificate first.
 
Jordan Wall said:
Can you still do Basic Med with an open Class 3 medical? Or would one have to get the class 3 medical and then maybe do Basic Med later on.
Click to expand...

Maybe for a short time before your new active application for a 3rd class gets denied. At which point you lose the Basic Med. In the end, the answer is “no, can’t do basic med to fix this situation”
 
Last edited:
WDD said:
Curious - how many extensions can you get? Can you keep getting them until you get your paperwork?
Click to expand...
You get 1 extension for up to 60 days. Then it becomes a denial for failure to provide. The requested extension starts from the day the request is made. It is recommended to call OKC a few days before your deadline to maximize the extension.
Another technique that could work in some situation is to send them something that would trigger the review process. For example send them a psych report from a local doctor. They will review it and find it does not meet their requirements. This would likely trigger another certificated letter effectively resetting the clock.
 
skywalker09 said:
You get 1 extension for up to 60 days. Then it becomes a denial for failure to provide. The requested extension starts from the day the request is made. It is recommended to call OKC a few days before your deadline to maximize the extension.
Another technique that could work in some situation is to send them something that would trigger the review process. For example send them a psych report from a local doctor. They will review it and find it does not meet their requirements. This would likely trigger another certificated letter effectively resetting the clock.
Click to expand...
I think this can also work the other way. If the FAA has received exactly what they requested but are not ready to issue, they can simply say they never received it and request all or part again to prolong the investigation. But a Federal agency would never do such thing.
 
FatherPilot said:
I think this can also work the other way. If the FAA has received exactly what they requested but are not ready to issue, they can simply say they never received it and request all or part again to prolong the investigation. But a Federal agency would never do such thing.
Click to expand...

Considering what's at stake and the costs associated with a denial, the cost of sending it by registered mail is negligible.

I've been through additional documentation requests several times, sent them in via registered letter, and never heard back from the FAA.
 
skywalker09 said:
You get 1 extension for up to 60 days. Then it becomes a denial for failure to provide. The requested extension starts from the day the request is made. It is recommended to call OKC a few days before your deadline to maximize the extension.
Another technique that could work in some situation is to send them something that would trigger the review process. For example send them a psych report from a local doctor. They will review it and find it does not meet their requirements. This would likely trigger another certificated letter effectively resetting the clock.
Click to expand...
They're only obliged to give you 30. And, ONE TIME. Rarely they'll give you "special consideration" and you get a one time, for 60.
 
Last edited:
skywalker09 said:
You get 1 extension for up to 60 days. Then it becomes a denial for failure to provide. The requested extension starts from the day the request is made. It is recommended to call OKC a few days before your deadline to maximize the extension.
Another technique that could work in some situation is to send them something that would trigger the review process. For example send them a psych report from a local doctor. They will review it and find it does not meet their requirements. This would likely trigger another certificated letter effectively resetting the clock.
Click to expand...

Anybody have a good # to call them? I cant find it out the MedXpress site anymore.
 
405-954-4821, Jordan....
If the private email correponsds to this string, I have to tell you that to get to a HIMS psychiatrist, you go through A HIMS AME. The list is unpublished (HIMS psychiatrist) and HMS AMEs are dismissed if they publish the names (to prevent "shopping for an opinion").

Most of the HIMS psychiatrsts are booked 60 days out, so givin 30 days to get your FAA medical reocd to teh HIMs psychiatrist, if you started TODAY, then to getting to see him , and then two weeks for his investigation/report generation, you're unlikely to make it.

But never mind. You accept the denial , and when you have whtat they want you repaply, with the correct stuff!! If you request appeal without what they want, you get a higher level denial....and that's not good. You can see where this is headed......

I call this the "Lieutenant's perspective". Retreat, regroup, reattack.
***
The REASON why this is FAA-necessary, is that an episode of need of psychiatgry support is in and of itself a risk factor for recurrence. FAA is not insterested in candidates with substanital chance of recurrence....unless they qualify for the "ON SSRI" program. But that's another chapter, altogether.
 
bbchien said:
But never mind. You accept the denial , and when you have what they want you reapply, with the correct stuff!! If you request appeal without what they want, you get a higher level denial....and that's not good. You can see where this is headed......
Click to expand...
More applicants need to understand this so I repeated it (and added typo corrections ;))
 
Jordan Wall said:
I had an approved class 3 medical back in 2008 when I first started pursuing getting my license. In hindsight I should of done Basic Med this go around instead of opening up another class 3 medical application. Guessing theres no way to back track now though?
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, no. Once the AME accessed the application using the code you gave them, it became live.
 
bbchien said:
405-954-4821, Jordan....
If the private email correponsds to this string, I have to tell you that to get to a HIMS psychiatrist, you go through A HIMS AME. The list is unpublished (HIMS psychiatrist) and HMS AMEs are dismissed if they publish the names (to prevent "shopping for an opinion").

Most of the HIMS psychiatrsts are booked 60 days out, so givin 30 days to get your FAA medical reocd to teh HIMs psychiatrist, if you started TODAY, then to getting to see him , and then two weeks for his investigation/report generation, you're unlikely to make it.

But never mind. You accept the denial , and when you have whtat they want you repaply, with the correct stuff!! If you request appeal without what they want, you get a higher level denial....and that's not good. You can see where this is headed......

I call this the "Lieutenant's perspective". Retreat, regroup, reattack.
***
The REASON why this is FAA-necessary, is that an episode of need of psychiatgry support is in and of itself a risk factor for recurrence. FAA is not insterested in candidates with substanital chance of recurrence....unless they qualify for the "ON SSRI" program. But that's another chapter, altogether.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the insight. Will plan to regroup and reattack with everything they'll need.....hopefully everything they'll need.
 
i essentially did this in 2013, accepted my denial and lived to fight another day. When I reapplied with a new AME earlier this year he essentially told me we were just reopening the old file and I literally did everything they asked me to in 2013 (absolutely nothing else) and when i had it all done he sent it in for me and i was issued a medical 5 months later. The only thing I had to do extra was write them a personal statement about my history of ADHD which was simple enough.
 
Chris Charanza said:
I literally did everything they asked me to
Click to expand...

In another Thread Dr Bruce emphasized this if they tell you, you need to do A,B and C, then do A,B and C. Don't try to do A and C or A,B and D.

Basically what Dr Bruce said was he likes working with Ex military personal, because they understand the just do exactly what they ask for attitude.

Brian
 
Old Thread: Hello . There have been no replies in this thread for 365 days.
Content in this thread may no longer be relevant.
Perhaps it would be better to start a new thread instead.
Back
Top