GTN 650 or 750?

[arnoha]

Help me decide...I'm getting an avionics upgrade in July for my 2003 172 SP. Going in during that time is:

• GTN-650
• GTX-345
• G5 HSI
• G5 AI

Coming out would be a KLN 94, KMD 550, KT 76C, KX 155A and indicator, and the entire vacuum system.

I'm having second thoughts about the GTN-650. Should I spend the $5K extra to get the 750? If I do that, should I remote the GTX-345? What would you guys do?

 

[tspear]

If you want to use the GTN for anything but switching radio frequencies, get the bigger unit.
Only reason to get the remote transponder is if you ran out of panel space.

Tim

Sent from my LG-TP260 using Tapatalk

 

[MickYoumans]

It really comes down to your budget. If you already have a good audio panel, the GTN650 does just about everything the 750 does. When I upgraded my avionics last summer I just couldn't justify the extra cost. If you have an extra $5000 to blow, go for it, but if budget is a concern you will be happy with the 650. I have the GTX345 paired with my 650 and love the combo.

 

[FORANE]

I installed a GTN 650 in our RV. The touch screen interface was frustrating for me. frequently I would inadvertently hit the wrong "button" resulting in having to go back and undo what I just did.

 

[mscard88]

I installed a GTN 650 in our RV. The touch screen interface was frustrating for me. frequently I would inadvertently hit the wrong "button" resulting in having to go back and undo what I just did.

Yup, there's a 650 in the PA28-140 at the flight school I teach in, and if it's bumpy I end up touching something else and have to redo it. Still a pretty sweet unit. Love the traffic alert it has.

 

[Radar Contact]

Help me decide...I'm getting an avionics upgrade in July for my 2003 172 SP. Going in during that time is:

• GTN-650
• GTX-345
• G5 HSI
• G5 AI

Coming out would be a KLN 94, KMD 550, KT 76C, KX 155A and indicator, and the entire vacuum system.

I'm having second thoughts about the GTN-650. Should I spend the $5K extra to get the 750? If I do that, should I remote the GTX-345? What would you guys do?

For what it's worth, I like your current plan listed. If you are happy with your autopilot (providing you have one) and you have the extra $, I would get the 750. The 750 is a GPS and MFD in one box. Otherwise, that 5K would go a long way towards a GFC500/Trio/etc.

 

[azure]

Personally, if it was a $5K difference, I would probably go for the 750. Someone I know who recently bought a Cirrus and put in a 650 said that the delta was more like $10K, installed. Of course, with the Cirrus's glass panel, he didn't really need an extra MFD; and also, some of that delta might have been for freeing up some panel space for the larger unit. YMMV.

 

[eman1200]

Is the 345r more moolah? Also, it may cost more for the install? I do really like the 650/345 combo. I'm sure I'd like the 750 as well.

 

[Topper]

I have talked to people that liked the remote transponder. I figure if you have the panel room, leave it separate so you don't have to pull it up on the 750 to change it, that being said, it is not a big deal on the g1000 to have to push a couple of buttons to get the xponder up. Loved my 750, sold that plane and now am either behind a g1000 or a 530/430.

 

[arnoha]

Personally, if it was a $5K difference, I would probably go for the 750. Someone I know who recently bought a Cirrus and put in a 650 said that the delta was more like $10K, installed. Of course, with the Cirrus's glass panel, he didn't really need an extra MFD; and also, some of that delta might have been for freeing up some panel space for the larger unit. YMMV.

The difference was exactly $4735 when the quotes came in. It's possible it'll be a little different if I ask for a change right now.

Other notes: the plane is a leaseback, so it flies a good bit, around 50 hours each month. There is room for the 750 and the 345 in the panel, but I'm not sure if I can do it and retain only the center stack. The 172SP has two more standard box spots in front of the right seat, where the transponder is right now. They're annoying to reach to, so if I can avoid it, I will. I do have an autopilot and the G5 does interface with it (KAP 140 w/preselect). It'll get me GPSS in the plane, finally. I can afford the 5 AMU; that's not the issue. Just trying to decide if this is where to spend the money.

 

[Unit74]

If you already had a MX20 or other MFD, 650. If you don't have anything, the screen real estate is a huge benefit.

 

[arnoha]

If you already had a MX20 or other MFD, 650. If you don't have anything, the screen real estate is a huge benefit.

I have the KMD 550, and I've been told it will interface, but it has a silly self-test error that my club is unhappy about. What's more, it's an old unit and the data cards are being phased out.

 

[coloradobluesky]

BOTH GOOD
BIGGER IS BETTER

 

[BGF_Yankee]

If you already had a MX20 or other MFD, 650. If you don't have anything, the screen real estate is a huge benefit.

Big screen you say? Or for less money you can go the route I did and do the poor man's MFD. Cross connected to the GTN and GTX, so all my information is doubled onto it like it is on the GTN...AND I have XM Radio available now too!

Other than that, only if it's really bumpy do you maybe hit the wrong button. Honestly, with the FS510, rarely do I even have to touch the GTN screen any longer. You can change frequencies with the knob, so bumpiness there isn't an issue. Like anything, you just need to learn to use it. Plus, most people don't read (or watch) the instructions and use the beveled edge to steady their hand like they are supposed to.

 

[wayne]

If you want to use the GTN for anything but switching radio frequencies, get the bigger unit.
Only reason to get the remote transponder is if you ran out of panel space.

^This

The 750 is much easier to enter a flight plan as you have all the letters and numbers on the screen at once. You have to scroll on the 650. Another option is Flightstream and upload from you compatible app, but that's more dollars too. May make it even easier, but more dollars.

 

[BGF_Yankee]

Another option is Flightstream and upload from you compatible app, but that's more dollars too. May make it even easier, but more dollars.

It's WAAAAAAAY easier...easier than even if you have the 750. Best $1,200 I've ever spent...at least in term of avionics. But even with the 650, it only takes a little practice to get used to the way the 650 requires you to scroll through the alphabet.

 

[Unit74]

I see you still have the factory screen protector on......


You know, once you remove that, it's not considered new anymore!






BTW,.... Mine is still there too. It was installed in 2012.

 

[BGF_Yankee]

Dang right! It almost came off after it got hot and bubbled, but I smoothed it back out. Gotta keep it fresh you know?!

 

[denverpilot]

We went 650 plus Flightstream 510. Any “need” for a larger screen is handled by the iPad, which in a very basic sense just ends up a remote screen for the 650 when you can cross-pollinate flight plans back and forth, but can do things the panel gear can’t.

The smaller screen on the 650 really isn’t bad at all. But we don’t have an enormous cockpit or have to put it a great distance from the pilot. The bigger the cockpit the more you’d want the bigger 750 screen.

Unless panel space is tight, I wouldn’t do the remote transponder. The transponder has other features like timers and altitude monitoring that would disappear in the remote version.

 

[jimmyjack]

Neither. Tell Garmin you don't want frustrating touchscreen non-sense by speaking with your wallet. Get a 400/430/530 or if you must have new the Avidyne that still has physical buttons.

 

[bnt83]

Neither. Tell Garmin you don't want frustrating touchscreen non-sense by speaking with your wallet. Get a 400/430/530 or if you must have new the Avidyne that still has physical buttons.

I love using the knobs on the GTN to dial in data when flying through turbulence.

 

[arnoha]

I love using the knobs on the GTN to dial in data when flying through turbulence.

Hmmm...mind if I ask a personal question? (Why do we do that to be polite? I'm obviously going to do it anyway. I guess it's a hint that I won't be offended in any way if you don't answer.) Given your arm, how does the touchscreen work out with that?

 

[arnoha]

Neither. Tell Garmin you don't want frustrating touchscreen non-sense by speaking with your wallet. Get a 400/430/530 or if you must have new the Avidyne that still has physical buttons.

I've use the GTN plenty, including in turbulence. I honestly prefer the touchscreen to the knobs any day of the week. It doesn't take much to learn to use the bezel anchor to steady a hand while bumping around and still get what you want. It's clear to me that Garmin thought that through. I wish they'd spend more time making it obvious how to use the anchor, as I know many pilots who didn't realize it was there.

The other nice thing is that, as a rental, there's little training required. With buttons and knobs, it's hard to find what you want. With the touchscreen, finding something is trivial. The only time I ever had an issue finding something on the GTN was, embarrassingly, Direct-To. Why? It's not in the touchscreen interface...it's only a hard button! All the searching through the menus and I missed that it was staring me in the face.

 

[arnoha]

I've seen Flight Stream mentioned a few times. What benefit would that get me that the GTX-345 does not? Database concierge and flight plan transfer, right? Thinking about skipping Flight Stream, as it doesn't make much sense in a rental, given the GTX 345 already gives me ADS-B In for traffic and weather to my devices.

 

[bnt83]

Hmmm...mind if I ask a personal question? (Why do we do that to be polite? I'm obviously going to do it anyway. I guess it's a hint that I won't be offended in any way if you don't answer.) Given your arm, how does the touchscreen work out with that?

That's what I love about it. Most always I spend a whole lot less time turning/dialing with my left arm when I'm using it, of course I still grab the knobs when its really turbulant or just forward a new flight plan from the ipad. The GPS it replaced was an old Garmin 250XL, don't miss that box one bit.

About the only time I touch it with the hook is to acknowledge messages or swap frequencies. GTN has a whole bunch of remote features that I still haven't wired up.

 

[denverpilot]

I've seen Flight Stream mentioned a few times. What benefit would that get me that the GTX-345 does not? Database concierge and flight plan transfer, right? Thinking about skipping Flight Stream, as it doesn't make much sense in a rental, given the GTX 345 already gives me ADS-B In for traffic and weather to my devices.

Mainly it gives the flight plan sync. I assume the 345 also provides an AHRS via Bluetooth to the iPad already without the Flightstream.

In previous non 345 setups you got an AHRS from the Flightstream 210 for attitude info to the iPad as an emergency backup but with a Flightstream 510 it’s coming from the 345. If you do 345 plus 210 you end up with double AHRS which is kinda silly, but if you have a GNC instead of a GTN you have to use the 210. A friend’s airplane has that setup.

Don’t downplay Concierge too much. I would happily give up ForeFlight and only pay for Garmin Pilot just to keep it now that I have it if I couldn’t afford both and I’d be all Garmin Pilot.

iPad downloads everything the airplane needs at home and its nearly instantly in the airplane and updated in seconds without messing with any SD cards or any stupid laptops or SD readers that won’t write them correctly. It’s brilliant. Love it. Airplane checks the iPad at every start up for updates and if the iPad has some, it grabs them.

The flight plan sync is great because of the screen size. Pops instantly into Garmin Pilot or ForeFlight in flight. It also makes flight planning at home a breeze. Get to the airplane, toss the plan into the panel and go.

But I do see the dilemma if it’s a rental. Probably not worth it and there’s a limit on how many devices it’ll remember. With our two pilot co-ownership it’s awesome. Airplane knows our devices and everything just works from power up.

 

[arnoha]

Mainly it gives the flight plan sync. I assume the 345 also provides an AHRS via Bluetooth to the iPad already without the Flightstream.
...
But I do see the dilemma if it’s a rental. Probably not worth it and there’s a limit on how many devices it’ll remember. With our two pilot co-ownership it’s awesome. Airplane knows our devices and everything just works from power up.

So, I figure if I'm wrong about FlightStream, I can always just buy the FS510 and pop it in. Do I need a shop to make it work? Either way, shouldn't be many hours, just config.

 

[denverpilot]

So, I figure if I'm wrong about FlightStream, I can always just buy the FS510 and pop it in. Do I need a shop to make it work? Either way, shouldn't be many hours, just config.

They’ll only sell them through dealers so I assume you’d have to pay something. Our shop sells and puts them in for $1200 which he says is $100 profit. MSRP is like $1500 I think.

They have to go into the 345 and disable the Bluetooth to meet the STC which is kinda stupid. Garmin should have left it on in case the 650/750 dies.

And then they tell the 650/750 that it has one and they do any firmware updates either unit needs to behave with the 510.

 

[arnoha]

Discussed with my wife and decided to go for it. GTN-750 going in. No remote on the GTX-345, it'll have to go in the secondary stack.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

It's WAAAAAAAY easier...easier than even if you have the 750. Best $1,200 I've ever spent...at least in term of avionics. But even with the 650, it only takes a little practice to get used to the way the 650 requires you to scroll through the alphabet.

This. We went with the 750 to get the whole keyboard on the screen, but with the FlightStream we rarely use the keyboard. And flight plan sync is SO much better than... Well, no flight plan sync.

I've seen Flight Stream mentioned a few times. What benefit would that get me that the GTX-345 does not? Database concierge and flight plan transfer, right? Thinking about skipping Flight Stream, as it doesn't make much sense in a rental, given the GTX 345 already gives me ADS-B In for traffic and weather to my devices.

Those are the main things, yes. But do you ever fly this plane? And do you keep the databases up to date? If either of those is a yes, you should get the FlightStream.

I would even say that it'd be better to have 650+FlightStream than 750 without FlightStream if it came down to that.

 

[arnoha]

This. We went with the 750 to get the whole keyboard on the screen, but with the FlightStream we rarely use the keyboard. And flight plan sync is SO much better than... Well, no flight plan sync.

Those are the main things, yes. But do you ever fly this plane? And do you keep the databases up to date? If either of those is a yes, you should get the FlightStream.

I would even say that it'd be better to have 650+FlightStream than 750 without FlightStream if it came down to that.

Well, I do fly the plane but I don't update the databases. It's a leaseback, so, um, I guess I have people for that. LOL...when did I become a snooty rich bastard. Could you pass the Grey Poupon, please? (They wouldn't use DB concierge. They do a mass card update, then swap cards in all the Garmin planes. If I've got my count right, they have 57 Garmin cards to update, along with a couple dozen KLN 94 cards and a bunch of Avidyne cards.)

It's unlikely I'll ever have this as a pure personal plane. If I get tired of leaseback, I'll sell the plane and get something cheaper, faster, and more capable. 172SP is kind of a terrible personal plane.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Well, I do fly the plane but I don't update the databases. It's a leaseback, so, um, I guess I have people for that. LOL...when did I become a snooty rich bastard. Could you pass the Grey Poupon, please? (They wouldn't use DB concierge. They do a mass card update, then swap cards in all the Garmin planes. If I've got my count right, they have 57 Garmin cards to update, along with a couple dozen KLN 94 cards and a bunch of Avidyne cards.)

It's unlikely I'll ever have this as a pure personal plane. If I get tired of leaseback, I'll sell the plane and get something cheaper, faster, and more capable. 172SP is kind of a terrible personal plane.

Makes sense then. You wouldn't want to get a $1400 FlightStream 510, only to have them accidentally swap it into a different plane!