Grumman Tiger like LSA?

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LandSickness

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fri tale
I just went through the 3rd class medical from hell and there's no way I'm doing that again.

I was very interested in owning or partnering in a Grumman Tiger. Now, I may not even be able to obtain my PPL. If, by chance I am granted a special issuance, I will settle for the Sport Pilot certificate. So, what light sport plane is most Tiger like flying characteristics wise? There's probably nothing that measures up to a Tiger's performance.
 
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Sonex. Bonus, the performance is right up there too. Light controls, great vis, high sink rate with power off(compared to other SE planes). Comes in trike with a castoring nose too.
 
So, Landsickness, did you apply BEFORE you knew the score?
Do you at least know the score now? Can the documentation get you the SI?

You're going to have to pass this one, or at least reapply after the denial to fly LSAs. And not to ask you to spill publically- but do you now have ducks lined up?
 
bbchien said:
So, Landsickness, did you apply BEFORE you knew the score?
Do you at least know the score now? Can the documentation get you the SI?

You're going to have to pass this one, or at least reapply after the denial to fly LSAs. And not to ask you to spill publically- but do you now have ducks lined up?
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I had a misunderstanding of the rules. I thought I had my ducks in a row, that is, until the AME told me that because of my condition, he couldn't issue the first 3rd class medical. He sent my file, along with letters from my Doctors to Okla. City, who in turn required an EKG. Wouldn't you know it, there was an abnormality. Nuke stress test, passed with flying colors. Previous EKG, an anomaly. Still waiting to hear.

I am, at the very least very aware of my condition and have every intention of remaining proactive treating it. I'm either gonna be a Pilot or spend the rest of my life taking dual instruction and a ton of discovery flights. I'll still fly, whether or not solo remains to be seen.
 
LandSickness said:
I just went through the 3rd class medical from hell and there's no way I'm doing that again.

I was very interested in owning or partnering in a Grumman Tiger. Now, I may not even be able to obtain my PPL. If, by chance I am granted a special issuance, I will settle for the Sport Pilot certificate. So, what light sport plane is most Tiger like flying characteristics wise? There's probably nothing that measures up to a Tiger's performance.
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Tecnam P-96 Golf is very nice but out of production. The P 2002 Sierra is also very nice and you can fly with the canopy open. The FA-04 Peregrine is faster and has a 44" wide cockpit but you can't fly with the cockpit open.
 
RV-12 might be a good choice. A few knots slower and two fewer seats than a Tiger, but I've heard they fly well.
 
RV-12 is a good plane, by a well respected company. Of course, the performance isn't up to the Sonex, and it costs a lot more, but it's still a contender.
 
RV-12 is a good Tiger-like substitute but I think an even better alternative is the Rans S-19.
 
Comparing any LSA to a Tiger is going to be dissapointing. It really isn't a fair comparison? Couple of knots difference? Tigers easily cruise at 135 KTAS, and more if you want to push it. The crisp yet stable handling is not going to be found in a much lighter airplane either.
 
I really dig the Sonex but the cockpit is too small for me. Great plane, though. The Tecnam offerings are also interesting. The FA 04 Preregrine is nice, but a bit out of my price range. I'm looking to spend between $50-60k, which eliminates most S-LSA with these characteristics. The Vans RV12 and Rans S-19 Tenterra are frontrunners for sure, but I'd be lucky to get into either at my price point. Maybe I can find a work in progress on Barnstormers or Trade-a-plane.
 
I'm certainly prepared to settle for less at this point. I have reasonable performance and flying characteristics expectations, certainly with my $60k budget.


Anthony said:
Comparing any LSA to a Tiger is going to be dissapointing. It really isn't a fair comparison? Couple of knots difference? Tigers easily cruise at 135 KTAS, and more if you want to push it. The crisp yet stable handling is not going to be found in a much lighter airplane either.
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LandSickness said:
I'm certainly prepared to settle for less at this point. I have reasonable performance and flying characteristics expectations, certainly with my $60k budget.
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Did you get your 3rd Class medical? If so the next one should be a lot eaiser. You can get a nice Tiger for $50K these days, or even less sometimes.
 
Still waiting to hear. If the next medical is easier, I may continue, though I'd rather be done with the required tests.

Anthony said:
Did you get your 3rd Class medical? If so the next one should be a lot eaiser. You can get a nice Tiger for $50K these days, or even less sometimes.
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Wait to see if they give you a special issuance (and if they do, what documentation they'll need to maintain and renew it), or if you get a regular medical after the review by OKC.

Based on what you said, I'm assuming you'll get an SI, but who knows?
 
LandSickness said:
I really dig the Sonex but the cockpit is too small for me. Great plane, though. The Tecnam offerings are also interesting. The FA 04 Preregrine is nice, but a bit out of my price range. I'm looking to spend between $50-60k, which eliminates most S-LSA with these characteristics. The Vans RV12 and Rans S-19 Tenterra are frontrunners for sure, but I'd be lucky to get into either at my price point. Maybe I can find a work in progress on Barnstormers or Trade-a-plane.
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If you're gonna build, get what you want. By the time you finish your RV-12, you're gonna be over $60k. At least, everyone ever built was well over that.

Sonex now offers a lowered seat option which gives 2" of additional headroom. If you are too wide for the cockpit, but can fit in an RV-12, that's rather surprising, as the RV-12 has 1.5" wider dimension on the inside.

RV-12 is not acro, Sonex is rated for acro. May not be of interest now, but consider it later.
 
TMetzinger said:
Wait to see if they give you a special issuance (and if they do, what documentation they'll need to maintain and renew it), or if you get a regular medical after the review by OKC.

Based on what you said, I'm assuming you'll get an SI, but who knows?
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And if he doesn't he's done.
 
Oh. I'm gonna guess that you had hypertension and a bundle branch block. After the nuke, they wil NEVER inquire as to this again.

Your AME needs to call OKC up and get the permission to issue. This is not that hard. It's AME-102 coursework. If he does this he can issue you TOMORROW.
 
maddog52 said:
Tecnam P-96 Golf is very nice but out of production. The P 2002 Sierra is also very nice and you can fly with the canopy open. The FA-04 Peregrine is faster and has a 44" wide cockpit but you can't fly with the cockpit open.
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The Tecnam P92 Eaglet is a joy to fly. I've never flown a Tiger (or really much else, for that matter), so I can't compare, but it has crisp handling and cruises on the high mid-range of LSA speeds. I think $60k might get you one on the used market, but I'm not sure...
 
bbchien said:
Oh. I'm gonna guess that you had hypertension and a bundle branch block. After the nuke, they wil NEVER inquire as to this again.

Your AME needs to call OKC up and get the permission to issue. This is not that hard. It's AME-102 coursework. If he does this he can issue you TOMORROW.
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Is this a request I should have made through my AME? I thought because he couldn't issue the medical that I was on my own. I've contacted OKC directly. As of yesterday afernoon, my application is "still under review." I will call him on Monday and request that he call OKC.
 
docmirror said:
Sonex. Bonus, the performance is right up there too. Light controls, great vis, high sink rate with power off(compared to other SE planes). Comes in trike with a castoring nose too.
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Tricycle gear Sonex is direct linkage steering, not castoring. I'm building one. :D
 
LandSickness said:
The Vans RV12 and Rans S-19 Tenterra are frontrunners for sure, but I'd be lucky to get into either at my price point.
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Price is a problem for RV-12. Another is that you have to have an LSA-like build, and that's going to be rare. Not only the weight has to be limited, but stall speed and maximum speed do too. Builders of EX-AB rarely concern themselves with compliance to those limits, and why would they?

The $50-60k S-LSA is basically unattainable, unfortunately. Even used Allegros only dip that low when they are ran out. Also, not much time passed since S-LSAs came into being, and most of the early models were much improved.

I think the only choice in that price bracket is an old Evektor SportMax with some 500-700 hours. I heard it's a nice airplane, but never flown one myself. Coincidentially, it's the only low-wing S-LSA that is friendly to tall people.

I am in a similar situation. Although I have got my medical back without SI, my budget is even smaller. At this point I resigned to flying something from 1946 and obtained a t/w endorsement.

At least I'm not yet reduced to a glider :)

P.S. People suggesting P-92: priced one recently? If anything, it's pricier than comparable RV-12. Of course you are guaranteed to get a compliant LSA and the build quality, so that's a plus. But I heard that dealing with Tecnam USA was as pleasant as a root canal.
 
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LandSickness said:
Is this a request I should have made through my AME? I thought because he couldn't issue the medical that I was on my own. I've contacted OKC directly. As of yesterday afernoon, my application is "still under review." I will call him on Monday and request that he call OKC.
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Jeepers.

A good AME would take it upon himself to push the process. Your guy is M.I.A.
 
bbchien said:
Jeepers.

A good AME would take it upon himself to push the process. Your guy is M.I.A.
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Seriously M.I.A. I called his office Monday to request his intervention calling OKC. He told his assistant to tell me that he was in fact "out of the loop" and that I should communicate with them directly. I'm on my own, but at least I know where not to go next time.
 
zaitcev said:
The $50-60k S-LSA is basically unattainable, unfortunately. Even used Allegros only dip that low when they are ran out. Also, not much time passed since S-LSAs came into being, and most of the early models were much improved.
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No it isn't. X-Air LS, list price of $59,995. Neat little airplane. Probably not suited for training, but for a personal fun plane, probably not too bad.
 
zaitcev said:
..... But I heard that dealing with Tecnam USA was as pleasant as a root canal.
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Don't know much about the current US distributor but I can tell you from first hand experience that if you shake hands with the guy running the factory you better count your fingers when your done.
 
KSCessnaDriver said:
X-Air LS, list price of $59,995. Neat little airplane. Probably not suited for training, but for a personal fun plane, probably not too bad.
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Oh I know that X-Air is a nice airplane. There's a guy in Utah who flies one everywhere. But it's made in India and $60k price is stuck on their website since 2010. Frankly I do no believe it, due to lack of any updates. A very similar airplane, Cheetah, was pushing $70k a year ago (with a 912). Note that X-Air did not register a sale in almost 2 years, or at least not enough to get on Dan Johnson's list.

Also, I habitually disqualified those S-LSAs that are unlikely to compete with Tiger, for the purposes of this thread. Allegro at least has plastic wings and is very clean aerodynamically, althogh I have some reservations about the construction of the rest. But X-Air's cruise speed is 85 mph!

Edit: Midwest Sportplanes sell a Cheetah stripper for $62k with an 80-hp 912. The airplane lacks, for instance, a transponder - with a lovely Sandia unit being an option for, oh, $2800.
 
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bullwinkle said:
Tricycle gear Sonex is direct linkage steering, not castoring. I'm building one. :D
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Sorry, I was thinking of the earlier model, one of them had castering. Anyway, none of the planes mentioned so far except the Sonex or the RV-12 will have the handling like the AA-5B. The Sonex is the only one that has a price point that is in the realm of possibility, so if the OP doesn't fit in one I think he's out of luck in his quest. Price, size, Tiger handling are three critera that can't be met.
 
X air has like the sailcloth skin right? So you're paying $60k for tubing powerplant and instruments? That should make for a pretty inexpensive E-lsa if they ever decided to sell them that way.
 
I'm 210lbs/6' and the Onex fit's fine that I'm building. Sonex ,Waiex much bigger.
They say up to 6' 4" works in all Sonex aircraft
All light sport,aerobatic, easy to build or cheaper to buy than others.
 
zaitcev said:
P.S. People suggesting P-92: priced one recently? If anything, it's pricier than comparable RV-12. Of course you are guaranteed to get a compliant LSA and the build quality, so that's a plus. But I heard that dealing with Tecnam USA was as pleasant as a root canal.
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There's a P92 for sale asking $55k right now that I've flown, and it's a nice airplane. Not gorgeous, but decently clean, and it'll get your butt up in the air. Not to mention that it flies beautifully. I'm not sure about dealing with Tecnam USA, because I'm only a renter.

maddog52 said:
Don't know much about the current US distributor but I can tell you from first hand experience that if you shake hands with the guy running the factory you better count your fingers when your done.
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What's that supposed to mean...?
 
I've owned a Tiger .. and a Sonex .. and now I'm building a Sonex. It's a
great flying, reasonably priced plane. Although it certainly flies as nice as
the Tiger .. it's not going to match the speed. I was seeing 128 to 130 mph indicated in my previous Sonex.

RV12's are very nice planes .. but cost more.

RT
 
jpower said:
There's a P92 for sale asking $55k right now that I've flown, and it's a nice airplane. Not gorgeous, but decently clean, and it'll get your butt up in the air. Not to mention that it flies beautifully. I'm not sure about dealing with Tecnam USA, because I'm only a renter.



What's that supposed to mean...?
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It means that wether he made a verbal contract, a handshake or a legal contract he is untrustworthy.
 
I still haven't heard from OKC yet, but I think the Sonex would be a good compromise if I survive this medical. I'd just like to be done with that medical process altogether.

And, if by chance, I don't survive the medical, I'll soar.....and build a Xenos.
 
I called OKC today. 3rd class medical special issuance granted. :yesnod:

What a relief. I'll wait until the paperwork arrives to see the conditions, but I'm pretty much done with that process. Sport pilot fits my mission so I'll do what I need to do to keep flying and learning. Because I pursued this first medical without a full understanding, I seriously dodged a bullet and I can't see myself running that risk again. The question is, will I be required to? I wasn't denied, so I'm in the clear, right?
 
LandSickness said:
I called OKC today. 3rd class medical special issuance granted. :yesnod:

What a relief. I'll wait until the paperwork arrives to see the conditions, but I'm pretty much done with that process. Sport pilot fits my mission so I'll do what I need to do to keep flying and learning. Because I pursued this first medical without a full understanding, I seriously dodged a bullet and I can't see myself running that risk again. The question is, will I be required to? I wasn't denied, so I'm in the clear, right?
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U b good to go.

You can let it expire and keep flying an LSA (assuming you are medically fit as determined by you and your family doctor (and, if you are not, you probably shouldn't be driving a car either (IMO)))
 
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