Grumman aa1b operating costs.
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Theboys
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Theboys
About the same as a 172 or Cherokee.
AA1B, that's a 2-seater with a O235.
More like a 152.
They are covered under the EAA STC for mogas. There is probably no cheaper way to fly around than an AA1B on gas-cans from the marina.
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Grum.Man
En-Route
My AA1 burns on average 6 gallons per hour. My annual is usually around $600.00. It stays in an open t-hangar which is about $100.00 per month. My insurance for just liability is $200.00 a year. I change the oil my self and it burns a quart every 50 hours. Had the engine overhauled about 2 years ago. My father(an A&P) did the work with my assistance. I used chromed cylinders instead of new. Total price was about $8,000.00.
Agree. With an O-235, costs are probably on par with a Cessna 152.
Insurance might be a bit more than a 152, given its sporty reputation, but shouldn't be a deal breaker.
My AA1B was equipped with an O-320, and I gave it a hull value of $25k.
I paid $550/yr for insurance.
Annual inspection ran about $500, owner assisted.
Misc maintenance and repair was maybe $1000 per year, give or take, depending.
Fun time-builder!
Insurance might be a bit more than a 152, given its sporty reputation, but shouldn't be a deal breaker.
My AA1B was equipped with an O-320, and I gave it a hull value of $25k.
I paid $550/yr for insurance.
Annual inspection ran about $500, owner assisted.
Misc maintenance and repair was maybe $1000 per year, give or take, depending.
Fun time-builder!
They look nice and I have found a few for around $15k. It doesn't have to be pretty just safe and airworthy.
Turboz1r
Pre-takeoff checklist
I owned both a B and C model. now have a Tiger. The Grumman's are very low on maint, and what others have stated above is pretty much right on. Fly it by the numbers and stay on top of your airspeed and you will have a blast. Flying these will make you a better pilot when you step up to something faster and more high performance. Good Luck. Mike G
It would be used for time building. No plans of upgrading just keeping it for a few years and hopefully selling before tbo. I figure if I can get at least 150 hours out of it I break even on rental cost. That doesn't include the fixed cost but its mine when I want to fly
With the 15k ones, you have to look at the engine time. The problem is that if you have to overhaul, you are going to have more into the plane than the market will bear when you want to sell. A friend of mine has one that he is asking 14.5, but the engine is up there. Never been overhauled TR2 with original paint. If you overhaul, you get into a 'while we are here' problem. Might as well upgrade to 320 cylinders...... soon you have the nicest AA1B out there but nobody willing to pay for it.
The one I was looking at had 1509 smoh. What I saw was a 2400tbo. Please correct me if that tbo is wrong
I believe that is correct.
Grum.Man
En-Route
If the plane doesn't have an oil cooler I would expect to do a top overhaul sooner than later. If your cylinders are salvageable I would plan about 3-4000 for a top with chrome cylinders.
jaybee
Cleared for Takeoff
I was earnestly into the market last summer looking at AA1s anda guy I worked with, been an AP for a long time, told me if it didn't have the oil cooler STC to price it as needing a new engine. Problem was telling the seller that...
James331
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Hogwash.
The one I flew in and got for my buddy didn't have one, just watch the oil temp, no biggie.
If the person isn't managing his engine and paying attention he'll probably mess the engine up with or without a cooler
The one I flew in and got for my buddy didn't have one, just watch the oil temp, no biggie.
If the person isn't managing his engine and paying attention he'll probably mess the engine up with or without a cooler
That sounds like a great deal. How did it hold up?
James331
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Had a flap motor from replaced (couple hundred), had one aileron start to separate at th trailing edge just a little, super cheap fix, some new tires because the old ones were, well old, some minor bored on the weekend cosmetic stuff, that's about it, still buzzing around last I heard.
Grum.Man
En-Route
It is a biggie which is why almost all of them have been upgraded. To keep the oil temp in the summer down to where it is with the cooler would mean running around at 40%. The oil temp only tells you the temp at one location, it can be much hotter in others. Yes mismanaged engines will cook even with all the coolers in the world but it's a proven fact that the Yankee runs too hot.
jaybee
Cleared for Takeoff
I think I'd go with what you said though, pricing as needing a top instead of complete. I think maybe his thinking was pricing it as a complete was because of the price of the STC ? not sure what that costs. but yea, pretty well known that they run hot.
James331
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No doubt! I'm not sure if a cooler was ever put in the Grumman I knew, haven't been out that way in a while, if it was mine I would have added one as I don't recall it being that expensive of a project.
Still, saying to price a plane like it needs a top overhaul if it doesn't have one is silly, I mean I guess if you have to make a buy or don't buy decision on the spot and with no prebuy, but for a informed purchase it's silly.
If you want a quickie way of telling the condition of the plane, take her up with the old owner, see how she performs against the book numbers, better yet see how the owner handles the aircraft, that'll tell you heaps more then making some wild guess based on equipment installed.
The AA1A never had a jug needing replacement in the years I flew it, of course I didn't try to VY climb it into the FLs, nor did any of the students I instructed in it.
As for pricing, the oil cooler doesn't change my offer, price it like you want to flip it and make the most money you can, why would you do anything other then that? Let them say the first number, hit them low, peel them off the ceiling, pat them on the head and compliment them on their plane, now make your first more realistic offer. Standard sales.
Grum.Man
En-Route
Well I never said or meant to imply that the plane should be priced as if it needed a top overhaul. The thread is about operating cost so I was letting the potential buyer know how much a typical top overhaul would cost. A mid time original engine with no oil cooler has an extremely high likely hood of needing a top overhaul soon in a Grumman Yankee and should be budgeted for. After all, they are trainers and spend a lot of time doing pattern work which is very tough on an engine.
Turboz1r
Pre-takeoff checklist
I disagree, a few were used as trainers. Most were bought as first airplane purchases and were used for local flying and some shorter cross countrys.