Ground Instructor Recency of Experience - the Chief Counsel Speaks!

TMetzinger

TMetzinger

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Tim
I got a Chief Counsel opinion back today on my question about a ground instructor recency of experience. I asked if a newly minted ground instructor needed an endorsement before beginning to instruct.

I've attached the opinion - in a nutshell they say that YES, a ground instructor must have the endorsement before providing instruction.

I understand the issue with a ground instructor certificate not expiring, and requiring some recency of experience, otherwise you can have a ground instructor who hasn't taught in decades just start teaching and endorsing. But I'm tempted to write back and ask how the FIRST EVER ground instructor was supposed to comply with this rule, if he was the only instructor on earth at the time. Theres a term in logic having to do with bootstrapping that applies here, I just don't know what it is.

Note that FLIGHT instructors don't have the same limitation - they're good to operate from the moment their certificate is issued to the moment it expires or is revoked.

I also believe that a ground instructor can still teach aviation related subjects outside the scope of 61.215, but teaching those subjects may not qualify as recent experience.
 

Attachments

  • Counsel opinion on newly minted ground instructors.pdf
    745.9 KB · Views: 93
Thanks, Tim.
That coincides with the guidance I was given by the DuPage FSDO when I asked that same question upon getting my CGI, though they had to kick it around internally a little. Based on that, I went to a local instructor and had him endorse me. It's past time for another endorsement, since I haven't done any active instructing since then! :(
 
It kind of makes sense -- CFI's don't get any privileges until they've passed a practical test on their instructing skills as well as the writtens, and they have to prove their continued competence every two years. GI's get their tickets after only passing a couple of written tests -- no demonstration of actual teaching skill.
 
CFIs don't have to really "prove" their continued competence, as the CFI refresher clinics don't require any teaching. But I do agree that there's a need for GIs to show recency of experience.

I still can't remember the term, but it was in one of my CS classes - essentially it's possible to design rules for a system that's already running so that it stays running without having rules for the initialization of the system - that's what the GI FARs are. Essentially, there can be no GIs teaching unless there is first a CFI to "intialize" the first GI.
 
TMetzinger said:
CFIs don't have to really "prove" their continued competence, as the CFI refresher clinics don't require any teaching. But I do agree that there's a need for GIs to show recency of experience.

I still can't remember the term, but it was in one of my CS classes - essentially it's possible to design rules for a system that's already running so that it stays running without having rules for the initialization of the system - that's what the GI FARs are. Essentially, there can be no GIs teaching unless there is first a CFI to "intialize" the first GI.
Click to expand...
Yeah. Orville. Or was it Wilbur?
 
TMetzinger said:
I understand the issue with a ground instructor certificate not expiring, and requiring some recency of experience, otherwise you can have a ground instructor who hasn't taught in decades just start teaching and endorsing. But I'm tempted to write back and ask how the FIRST EVER ground instructor was supposed to comply with this rule, if he was the only instructor on earth at the time. Theres a term in logic having to do with bootstrapping that applies here, I just don't know what it is.
Click to expand...
I think your question would be illogical - based on the faulty premise that the rule was exactly the same when the FIRST EVER ground instructor came into being.
 
Hello,
I have a question for your regarding this topic. In terms of the issuance of endorsements to take an aeronautical knowledge test, do you still need to first be endorsed as a newly cerfified AGI/IGI?
 
Why do you guys do this?

You just make more paper to hang yourself, and other pilots, with.

Sigh
 
But did Ron get a call from the Chief Counsel on his red phone? If not, it never happened, don't care what your letter says!

:goofy:

Screen-shot-2013-02-15-at-9.20.22-AM.png
 
I was ready to say, "Welcome back Tim" until I saw the date of the OP. And still no Tim:(
 
James331 said:
Why do you guys do this?

You just make more paper to hang yourself, and other pilots, with.

Sigh
Click to expand...


AMEN! As soon as I saw the thread title I thought 'here comes a brand new restriction, something to make GA just that little bit more expensive, with added hassle'.
 
sergio2339 said:
Hello,
I have a question for your regarding this topic. In terms of the issuance of endorsements to take an aeronautical knowledge test, do you still need to first be endorsed as a newly cerfified AGI/IGI?
Click to expand...
Since giving endorsements is one of the "duties" of a Ground Instructor (to use the wording of the letter at the top of this thread), then per that letter, I would say you must meet the recent experience requirement in order to give an endorsement.
 
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