Great, great, great, great, great, great, great.... Then BAD

RalphInCA

RalphInCA

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RalphInCA
Landing practice in the Remos today. Most landings were pretty good, except for the last one. Came in with too much power, bounced landing, then another bounce, then another. Should have gone around after the first bounce.

Lesson learned.

Don't get cocky!
 
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You learned a good lesson today,never let alight sport bounce more than once without going around. The gear is not made to withstand bouncing.
 
You come in with too much power and have trouble managing the energy and controlling the plane.

It's a 700+lb plane, why do you need power? Can you land it with full flaps and a closed throttle? It takes a steep approach to keep energy available and lots of flaps to control speed. Are you trimming for your final approach speed?

IMO a good light sport pilot manages energy with tight patterns and slips and he lands at minimum speed with the throttle closed and full flaps. Most light sport pilots fly it on with power and take-off flaps.

What you learn first is what you will become. :)
 
CharlieTango said:
You come in with too much power and have trouble managing the energy and controlling the plane.

It's a 700+lb plane, why do you need power? Can you land it with full flaps and a closed throttle? It takes a steep approach to keep energy available and lots of flaps to control speed. Are you trimming for your final approach speed?

IMO a good light sport pilot manages energy with tight patterns and slips and he lands at minimum speed with the throttle closed and full flaps. Most light sport pilots fly it on with power and take-off flaps.

What you learn first is what you will become. :)
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Points well taken.

Will be going up again tomorrow for more practice.
 
Don't let the bad one at the end get into your head too much. Focus on the good ones. What did you do right? One of the toughest things I learned is the discipline to go around when things don't seem right. Too often for me a bad landing was obvious well before touching down.

Flying tailwheels taught me a lot about deciding to get out of trouble early as well.

Either way, keep at it! The challenge is what makes it all worth it. If it were easy, it would be boring as a lot of other stupid hobbies.
 
If the airplane will fly again it is a learning experience and nothing more. Sounds like a good day of flying.
 
PilotRPI said:
Too often for me a bad landing was obvious well before touching down.
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Great point. I was kind of distracted during the last landing, the pattern was starting to get full (uncontrolled field) and there was a guy in the pattern with me who was in a faster airplane that was making a little nervous (I.e. a couple of times he was behind me on final, when I was on final), and I was trying out some new things with power settings and etc.

I'm sure tomorrow will be better.

I only have about a dozen landings in that airplane so far. Lots still to learn.
 
RalphInCA said:
Landing practice in the Remos today. Most landings were pretty good, except for the last one. Came in with too much power, bounced landing, then another bounce, then another. Should have gone around after the first bounce.

Lesson learned.

Don't get cocky!
Click to expand...

After the first bounce , with just a little power and stick adjustment you could have smoothed it out and never bounced the second time. This all comes with experience and it happens often if you fly a lot. Wind shifts, gusts, etc. Slow fly it down the runway, stick back, with just enough throttle to keep it airborne. I used to practice this and it helped plus it was fun. It took me about 500 hours in taildraggers to get it down pat.
 
+1 with J.C. that if you have a long enough strip, you don't have to go around on the first bounce.

Throttle up or engage authoritative back pressure enough to let it float out and settle back down. Try to hold it off ... hold it off ... hold it ...

It all depends on how bad the bounce, length of strip left to play with, etc ... if you start porpoising, that's different. Full power and get out of there.
 
500 hours to get it right !!!!????

I've got a long way to go then. I have less than 200 total, most of that was thirty plus years ago - long before LSA was around.
 
txflyer said:
+1 with J.C. that if you have a long enough strip, you don't have to go around on the first bounce.

Throttle up or engage authoritative back pressure enough to let it float out and settle back down. Try to hold it off ... hold it off ... hold it ...

It all depends on how bad the bounce, length of strip left to play with, etc ... if you start porpoising, that's different. Full power and get out of there.
Click to expand...

Yep, unless strip length is an issue, if I bounce a nose dragger, I just throttle up a few hundred RPM and level off in ground effect, then cut the throttle and let it settle in again.
 
RalphInCA said:
500 hours to get it right !!!!????

I've got a long way to go then. I have less than 200 total, most of that was thirty plus years ago - long before LSA was around.
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No, LSA WAS around even fifty or sixty years ago. It was called j3 cub, taylorcraft, champ, etc. they are all light sport capable even today. The weight has no real bearing on it, IE: a taylorcraft weighs around 750 lbs, a Stearman, loaded, about 2500 lbs. same rules and technique apply to both. If you don't have some taildragger time, get some. A private pilot license is only the very beginning, then you really start to learn. I did not haul passengers until I had around four to five hundred hours. By that time I was confident and knew how to correct potential bad landings, cross winds, etc.
 
Jimmy cooper said:
No, LSA WAS around even fifty or sixty years ago. It was called j3 cub, taylorcraft, champ, etc. they are all light sport capable even today.
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True, and I was thinking about that as I pressed post. I knew somebody would point out that little airplanes have been around for a long time.

Also, true that weight has little to do with this conversation. Basic landing technique is the topic.

Thanks guys!
 
Henning said:
Yep, unless strip length is an issue, if I bounce a nose dragger, I just throttle up a few hundred RPM and level off in ground effect, then cut the throttle and let it settle in again.
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Yeah, it really depends on the severity of the bounce and how much room you have to play with.

A very bad bounce can put you almost at stall or stalled.

My rule of thumb is if the bounce is bad enough that you can't see ground over the glareshield, firewall it. It's really a matter of learned limitations in the aircraft and what it can do. :dunno:
 
txflyer said:
Yeah, it really depends on the severity of the bounce and how much room you have to play with.

A very bad bounce can put you almost at stall or stalled.

My rule of thumb is if the bounce is bad enough that you can't see ground over the glareshield, firewall it. It's really a matter of learned limitations in the aircraft and what it can do. :dunno:
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If I have the ability to go around, I have the ability to recover a bounce to flight in ground effect, it is just a matter of lesser degree of power and greater degree of finesse. I achieve the same effect of re approaching the flare with corrected energy, I just don't go through the pattern to do it, I just use up an extra 300-500' of runway is all. If I know I have more than twice the runway I need to land, it's no big stress.
 
During my second solo in the C162 I started porpoising. I think it took 2 bounces
before I realized it was time to give up which was 1 bounce too many.

I was told to never move the stick forward beyond neutral even if you bounce.
It takes awhile to build up that natural instinct. If you bounce once, go around.
I was lucky the airplane did not end up in a pile on the side of the runway.

Here's the link to my original thread with a detailed description of what
happened: http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=71120
 
Recognize an issue before it is an issue.

Go stall the plane again and write down the stall and put it on a pie e of tape next to the airspeed doohicky. RonL will be along shortly with many definitions including quotes from FARS. :rolleyes:

Pull the nose up so the mains are 2' above the runway way and hold it until the plane lands. If you go more than 200' you have too much speed landing. :yes:

Go around and look at the stall speed -v- your landing speed. Adjust accordingly.

If you feel this info was worth while send me money. In the memo write "consulting fees" . ;)
 
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I just count the bounces and total them up in my logbook.
 
Here's my logic...

If you had a normal, stabilized final and plenty of time and still bounced, what makes you think that now, rushed and destabilized and putting some power in only to take it out again, will have a better result?

But to reiterate what others have said or implied, there are bounces and there are BOUNCES! The former may be easily handled with a smidgen of power and another flare. The latter is best handled by full power and a go around.

But after the second bounce, go around regardless. I let a student try a third time on a wheel landing in a Citabria once, and we ended up going 50/50 for a new prop.

You know what they say about discretion and valor and all that.
 
VictorValencia said:
During my second solo in the C162 I started porpoising. I think it took 2 bounces
before I realized it was time to give up which was 1 bounce too many.

I was told to never move the stick forward beyond neutral even if you bounce.
It takes awhile to build up that natural instinct. If you bounce once, go around.
I was lucky the airplane did not end up in a pile on the side of the runway.

Here's the link to my original thread with a detailed description of what
happened: http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/showthread.php?t=71120
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I never like hearing statements like that. There are no motions that are unallowable, you use whatever motion required to adjust your attitude as require, pushing forward in a bounce may be necessary depending on how the bounce goes. You shouldn't even be thinking about the control motions, you just move them as required by the situation.
 
RalphInCA said:
Landing practice in the Remos today. Most landings were pretty good, except for the last one. Came in with too much power, bounced landing, then another bounce, then another. Should have gone around after the first bounce.

Lesson learned.

Don't get cocky!
Click to expand...

Yes , in my Light Sport, my landing budget is one bounce, then I'm airborne again. :yes:

Cheers
 
Did some more pattern work today. Went very well. Flared a little high for first approach, and although I probably could have saved it, elected to go around.

All other landings were pretty close to perfect.

Now I need to work on not exceeding pattern altitude on climb out. That airplane wants to climb!
 
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