Gotta love the FAA... who comes up with this stuff?

[Hank S]

I deleted my post because I might have been wrong.

Hank S. took off from Airport A, then landed at airport A. He then took off and flew 318nm and landed at Airport B. Then he took off and flew 447nm to Airport C and landed. So I guess he did actually land at 3 different places. That's if I'm reading it right, the story was a little confusing.

Yep,that's my story. The consensus here is that it doesn't count for the Commercial Long XC. So I'll just keep on waiting for a need to go 250 nm solo again, and make two stops enroute, which will only take more time and more gas. I've got many 400 nm XCs in my logbook, a few solo, many with my non-rated wife who won't touch the controls longer than it takes me to open the approach plate, and then only sometimes. But most of them have just one landing,mat the destination 400 nm away.

 

[Checkout_my_Six]

that's what you get for logging your pax....

 

[BillTIZ]

Look at the rules quoted above:

The dual flights:
One 2-hour cross country flight in a single engine airplane...that consists of a total straight-line distance of more than 100 nautical miles from the original point of departure;

The solo flight:
One cross-country flight of not less than 300 nautical miles total distance, with landings at a minimum of three points, one of which is a straight-line distance of at least 250 nautical miles from the original departure point​

What do you see there that suggests to you that any landings anywhere along the way don't count?

The first landing was not "along the way" it was at his departure airport before he left.

 

[midlifeflyer]

The first landing was not "along the way" it was at his departure airport before he left.

Guess I missed that one.

 

[dmspilot]

Guess I missed that one.

So does Hank's flight count? I said no at first as it seems like it shouldn't, but is that supported by the reg?

Consider Hypothetical Scenario 1, in which you takeoff from Alpha airport, fly 125nm to Bravo airport and land, then fly 125nm in the same direction to Charlie airport and land (Alpha and Charlie are 250nm apart), then fly 50nm in any direction and land at Delta Airport, for a total distance of 300nm. It should count right?

Consider Hypothetical Scenario 2, which is the same as the previous scenario except Alpha and Bravo are 50nm apart and Bravo and Charlie are 200nm apart. Would that count?

Consider Hypothetical Scenario 3, in which Alpha and Bravo are 5nm apart and Bravo and Charlie are 245nm apart. Would that count?

Do you see where this is leading?

 

[midlifeflyer]

So does Hank's flight count? I said no at first as it seems like it shouldn't, but is that supported by the reg?

***

Do you see where this is leading?

I do. Since I already missed it, let's review the scenario:

I needed to get my tanks resealed immediately after annual. So I fired up, went once around the pattern and landed full stop to make sure everything worked. Had no taxiway, and there were tall trees at the end of the 3000' runway, so no touch and go, I just back taxied and took off again right at sunset. Landed 318 nm later, should have been ~2:20 enroute, and spent the night. Next morning, fired up again and went an additional 447 nm and dropped off the plane (should have been a little over 3 hours, I was vectored from the Atlantic coast over Lake Okechobee, through the Everglades then 4 miles out to sea at 2000 msl before being turned back in to land).​

I'll make up the airports and simplify. And we're talking about the long solo, not the day/night flights since the scenario doesn't say it was dual:

1. KAAA → KAAA, a takeoff and once around the pattern for a specific purpose, "to make sure everything worked." I'm going with a no for two reasons. One is, a this is a personal opinion only, if asked the FAA would tell us "with landings at a minimum of three points" means 3 different points in part because its the only interpretation that makes sense in the context of the reg as a whole. The other reason is that, while the FAA is very liberal on what constitutes a "flight" for cross country purposes, the scenario as written says the pilot didn't consider that first flight in the pattern to be part of the cross country.
   
   
2. KAAA → KBBB: 318 NM. Assuming that was at least a straight line distance of at least 250, yep, it counts as one of the three landings.
   
   
3. KBBB → KAAA the next morning: With the same assumption as in #2, yep, it's part of the cross country under long-standing FAA policy that an overnight stop does not necessarily end a cross country flight. Yep, the second landing, back home.

 

[midlifeflyer]

But let's do your secnarios:

Consider Hypothetical Scenario 1, in which you takeoff from Alpha airport, fly 125nm to Bravo airport and land, then fly 125nm in the same direction to Charlie airport and land (Alpha and Charlie are 250nm apart), then fly 50nm in any direction and land at Delta Airport, for a total distance of 300nm. It should count right?

I'll go along with that.

Consider Hypothetical Scenario 2, which is the same as the previous scenario except Alpha and Bravo are 50nm apart and Bravo and Charlie are 200nm apart. Would that count?

Sure, no problem.
Alpha — 50 NM → Bravo — 200 → Charlie — 50 NM → Delta.
Three different points of landing, check.
One of the points of landing at least 250 NM from the origin, check.
300 NM total, check. [/quote]

Consider Hypothetical Scenario 3, in which Alpha and Bravo are 5nm apart and Bravo and Charlie are 245nm apart. Would that count?
Sure, no problem.

Alpha — 5 NM → Bravo — 245 → Charlie — 50 NM → Delta.
Three different points of landing, check.
One of the points of landing at least 250 NM from the origin, check.
300 NM total, check.

Want to make Bravo 1 mile away and make it up with 249 NM on the second leg? I'm fine with that too.

 

[Hank S]

So KAAA --> KAAA --> KBBB (318 nm) --> KCCC (447 nm) doesn't count? Why does a lap around the pattern, full stop, backtaxi and go not count as a landing???

 

[dmspilot]

One is, a this is a personal opinion only, if asked the FAA would tell us "with landings at a minimum of three points" means 3 different points in part because its the only interpretation that makes sense in the context of the reg as a whole.

He did land at 3 different points though. He only landed at his departure airport once. It is common to land at the original departure airport at the end of the flight, he just happened to do so at the beginning.

The other reason is that, while the FAA is very liberal on what constitutes a "flight" for cross country purposes, the scenario as written says the pilot didn't consider that first flight in the pattern to be part of the cross country.

Okay.