Good first plane , good price ?

Jeffgis12b

Jeffgis12b

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
Jan 19, 2014
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104
Location
Liberty,Mo
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Display name:
Kenny
I am looking at (within a day of purchasing) a nice little 1975 piper warrior with a 160hp upgrade , it is IFR certified and recent annual, it has a decent avionics package (dual kx155s, natco at165 tso transponder, King kr 86 adf, Narco 890 DME, ps 6000 audio pannel,ect..) and its a really nice looking plane with great interior prob 7/8 out of 10. The logs are 100 percent complete from the day it was new with all ADs complied with and has no corrosion issues. It has about 4700tt and about 460smoh. it takes 35k to buy it and was wondering if that's a good price, I am starting my pilot training and was wanting to learn in the plane I would be flying. It's hard knowing what the right one is when your new and dont want to mess up - but its exciting at the same time

Any advice would be great
 
$35,000 seems high, especially with that panel. Has the market rebounded that much?
 
First guess would be it is worth about $30,000 . Offer cash he will take it. Be sure to get a good prebuy done by someone of your choosing, not his man. How long since overhaul ?. Be sure the AD for the wing spar inspection was actually done and it needs to be redone evry 7 years. Major expense if there is a spar problem. Might be a little over priced at $35 but if you really love it and the prebuy is great then maybe. Is it IFR equipped ?. Aoutopilot ?
 
I think it might be a tad high but you should run it through TAP's valuation tool. In the end its only worth what someone will pay for it. Also since your new to flying I'd recommend having someone with experience guide you through the purchase. Best of Luck!
 
Vaflier said:
First guess would be it is worth about $30,000 . Offer cash he will take it. Be sure to get a good prebuy done by someone of your choosing, not his man. How long since overhaul ?. Be sure the AD for the wing spar inspection was actually done and it needs to be redone evry 7 years. Major expense if there is a spar problem. Might be a little over priced at $35 but if you really love it and the prebuy is great then maybe. Is it IFR equipped ?. Aoutopilot ?
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There is no AD for a wing spar inspection on a PA-28. There is an SB. Big difference.

Definitely want to see if there is corrosion anywhere - history of the aircraft is important here. If it's been hangared all it's life then there is less concern unless it was in a coastal area.

The price might be okay if everything works. Sometimes the autopilot gets neglected and it can be $$$$ to fix.

Make sure a pre-buy inspection is completed by a mechanic you select and pay. If you don't know what to have inspected then get mechanic's recommendation. If you don't like what a mechanic suggests you can always fall back to saying give it a 100 hr inspection.
 
Here is a couple picture of the plane , obviously some of you may have seen on barnstormers. He has a lot of people calling on it so it may not last long
 

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Stop. Just stop. Do not let enthusiasm get the best of you.
Have you reviewed the logbooks for ADs or are you believing what the owner tells you?
Do you know an A&P you trust to perform the pre-buy inspection?
Do you have a copy of AOPAs paperwork on purchasing, escrow, etc?
 
Word of advice I once heard, "never buy the first plane you look at".

That said, do you due diligence and if you satisfied, make an offer.
 
I have reviewed all the logs and had my local mechanic look as well , he said the logs all look great - the current owner has only owned since August but the prior owner owned for 15 years , I was going to call and talk to the previous owners A&P and see what he has to say. I figure now that the plane is 8 states away he would have no reason to hold back any truth about the plane. The plane came from Atlanta area until it went to Texas in August , I left a couple messages today with shops at Denton Airfield in hope to get a prebuy done. I have been looking at many planes but seems like they all have had little discrepancies in one place or another , so far this is he cleanest one I have came across within my price range but not sure if the price is right. That being said I can only go by seller comments as to his other interested parties , he seems to think the price is to cheap but me being a rookie I can't take his word only (obviously)
 
Looks like a pretty nice ship. I like the pic of the interior fuselage. Tells me the guy isn't trying to paint a pig. Ask if the repaint was a scuff and paint, or strip and paint.

Test all radios and A/P carefully. If you like it, give it a try.
 
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FYI; I'm based at Denton and am willing to help as needed.... including recommending someone to do the mech look see.

And I concur that $35k is a tad high.
 
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AggieMike88 said:
FYI; I'm based at Denton and am willing to help as needed.... including recommending someone to do the mech look see.

And I concur that $35k is a tad high.
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Transponder is Narco. When it dies, no repair, will require a replacement. Same for DME, if you don't get a GPS in the future. Excellent audio panel, ok nav/coms.

A few of the SBs may turn into ADs and should be looked into.

Do all the instrument and avionics lights work ? Muffler leak or in good condition? High pressure hoses in good shape? Scat hoses? It's the little things that can accumulate into serious money. Turn everything on with the engine running....any static in the radios?

I'm in agreement with the initial $30K offer.
 
35 k seems high,the panel needs a serious upgrade. Make sure you get a pre buy. The airplane doesn't fly any better with nice paint. Ask why is the current owner selling?
 
Jeffgis12b said:
Here is a couple picture of the plane , obviously some of you may have seen on barnstormers. He has a lot of people calling on it so it may not last long
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:rofl: Sounds like quite the salesman. Its been relisted at least 3 times/months that I've seen for the same price, don't rush into it thinking someone is going to try and buy it out from under you.
 
FredFenster said:
:rofl: Sounds like quite the salesman. Its been relisted at least 3 times/months that I've seen for the same price, don't rush into it thinking someone is going to try and buy it out from under you.
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I honesty thought it was a good price so that's why I came to you guys for advice hoping for unbiased opinions
 
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What am I missing about the panel? Std six pack, nav heads where they belong, what looks like CBs rather than fuses, radio stack in the right place.

When I bought my last plane, it started on BS for substantially more money. As time went on, the price came down to market levels and I finally put it out of its misery and made an offer.
 
You never know if you got a good deal until you've flown the plane for three years.
 
Jeffgis12b said:
I have reviewed all the logs and had my local mechanic look as well , he said the logs all look great - the current owner has only owned since August but the prior owner owned for 15 years , I was going to call and talk to the previous owners A&P and see what he has to say. I figure now that the plane is 8 states away he would have no reason to hold back any truth about the plane. The plane came from Atlanta area until it went to Texas in August , I left a couple messages today with shops at Denton Airfield in hope to get a prebuy done. I have been looking at many planes but seems like they all have had little discrepancies in one place or another , so far this is he cleanest one I have came across within my price range but not sure if the price is right. That being said I can only go by seller comments as to his other interested parties , he seems to think the price is to cheap but me being a rookie I can't take his word only (obviously)
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Why did he change his mind so fast after buying in August...is he a broker flipping the plane after a good deal, or did he discover a problem he's trying to unload now?
 
Jeffgis12b said:
Here is a couple picture of the plane , obviously some of you may have seen on barnstormers. He has a lot of people calling on it so it may not last long
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Sounds like you talked to him. After talking to dozens of people with planes for sale. If I heard a line like that. I'd thank him for his time and hang up and that would be the end of it. The only one I had to just hang up on was pastor in Alabama.

Plane seems over priced. I sold a better equipped one with similar times but 10 years older for half his asking price.

Move on.
 
mnewb1 said:
Why did he change his mind so fast after buying in August...is he a broker flipping the plane after a good deal, or did he discover a problem he's trying to unload now?
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Not sure if that is a Red Flag, but would certainly be a Yellow Flag.

I would ask for a copy of the Pre-Buy that was done on the last sale, if he will give it to you. Might also track down the previous owner.
 
A 160 Warrior is a perfectly good first plane, and a very good one for primary flight training. Of course, it would be nice to know just what your requirements are for a plane you'd own, like number of passengers, range, the sort of airports, etc., but the 150-160HP all-metal simple 4-seater is usually an excellent starter plane.

However, I would advise at least training through solo before you buy a plane -- just to make sure this is really something you want to do, can do, and have the determination to finish.
 
mnewb1 said:
Why did he change his mind so fast after buying in August...is he a broker flipping the plane after a good deal, or did he discover a problem he's trying to unload now?
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I got the chance to speak with the OP today about this aircraft.

Aircraft was purchased with the dream that his teenage son would join the seller in the professional pilot ranks. That isn't going to happen due to no interest from the teenager. The seller doesn't have time to properly exercise this Warrior, so the decision was made to sell it.

And the OP shared many things with me that gives me the belief that he has been paying attention to our various discussions on the correct and safe way to purchase an aircraft.

If the right bullet points can be put into the purchase agreement and signed off on by both parties, this aircraft looks to be a good choice for the OP.
 
I would like to think everyone for there advice, I did speak with previous A&Ps and the prior owner - at the end of the day it was a dicision that needed to be made but myself along with advice I got from Friend,instructor,local A&P, as well as forums as this. I looked and reviewed many airplanes before deciding on one and feel I made a good decision.

If it turns out i made a 5k mistake then I guess many of people have lost much more money on driving a brand new car off the lot (I havnt bought a new car in 19 years)

Piece of mind is worth something to me and I have a ton of great feedback from everyone that came into to contact with the mentioned plane as well as the previous and current owner, I do know reasons for him selling and the are legit reasons but didnt feel anyone would care about why he is selling but I am sure he will like his new faster plane since his son is no longer going to be learnig to fly (at least for now)


*Ron - I have flown right seat with a friend in his 172 for awile and have no doubt it will find enjoyment in finishing but I do absolutely agree that in most cases a person should rent and wait , thank you for the positive advice on it being a good starter plane is much appreciated as I like the 172 but really just was looking for a low wing (maybe just to be different from his , I like the looks better)
 
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Jeffgis12b said:
*Ron - I have flown right seat with a friend in his 172 for awile and have no doubt it will find enjoyment in finishing but I do absolutely agree that in most cases a person should rent and wait , thank you for the positive advice on it being a good starter plane is much appreciated as I like the 172 but really just was looking for a low wing (maybe just to be different from his , I like the looks better)
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Even if you do purchase this plane, you can always rent someone else's aircraft while you get a handle on proper landings. Then once you've mastered solo flight, spend another 2-4 hours getting the upper hand of the Warrior and continue on with training until done.
 
AggieMike88 said:
Even if you do purchase this plane, you can always rent someone else's aircraft while you get a handle on proper landings. Then once you've mastered solo flight, spend another 2-4 hours getting the upper hand of the Warrior and continue on with training until done.
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That's actually a great idea !!! I never even thought of that but sure would make me feel better if I put it in a little to hard to know its a trainer plane that is used to it , up until now the warrior has never been used much as a trainer plane
 
Wait..your the reason my offer didn't get accepted!:D you will have you a nice plane, good luck with the training! He told me when he turned my offer down that there were 5 people going after it. Regardless if you get it, it will be a nice plane.
 
Geico266 said:
Fly in an RV-6, you will throw rocks at the Piper. :yes:
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Nothing like taking your spouse on a nice getaway packing little more than underwear and a toothbrush.

Congrats to the OP, don't listen to any of these guys. You'll do just fine in your airplane, and once you're past the solo you'll have freedom like you've never seen. All you need is a CFI to sign off and you can fly wherever you want. The only real down side is if you go for the IFR you are limited to what's in the aircraft unless you want to shell out for avionics, and that gets expensive in a hurry. Don't ask me how I know.

Good luck.
 
simtech said:
Wait..your the reason my offer didn't get accepted!:D you will have you a nice plane, good luck with the training! He told me when he turned my offer down that there were 5 people going after it. Regardless if you get it, it will be a nice plane.
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Thank you Simtech for the positive feedback , i was somewhat questioning myself for awile and by no means was that my intention to beat anyone out of a purchase - i think he told me about you after I bought it, he had said someone from Mississippi was wanting to take a look at it and he assumed you was serious. He said he also had a local guy wanting to look this coming weekend but I can't confirm that to be truth but it does make me feel good to know he told me the truth about you. You may have been better at negotiation then myself but overall I was after a nice clean low hour engine/complete logs plane that had recent Annual & IFR certification - if I paid a little more then I should have, well so be it I just felt it met my needs better then many I was looking at in my price range.

Hope you find what your looking for and for a great price.
 
He said he also had a local guy wanting to look this coming weekend but I can't confirm that
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That was likely me.... Simtech had contacted me to go eyeball and photograph the aircraft for him :)
 
I love it when a plan comes together.

No one told me what's wrong with the panel. Congrats on the purchase. May it provide many hours of dutiful service.
 
Congrats.
My first plane was a Piper 140.
I had 100 hours of fun with it.
Hope you have fun in yours.
Looks like a great plane.
 
tinerj said:
You never know if you got a good deal until you've flown the plane for three years.
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Truer words have never been spoken.

As the OP said, you gotta jump in somewhere and 5k in aviation ain't gonna kill ya! Might sting a bit tho...
 
Jeffgis12b said:
Thank you Simtech for the positive feedback , i was somewhat questioning myself for awile and by no means was that my intention to beat anyone out of a purchase - i think he told me about you after I bought it, he had said someone from Mississippi was wanting to take a look at it and he assumed you was serious. He said he also had a local guy wanting to look this coming weekend but I can't confirm that to be truth but it does make me feel good to know he told me the truth about you. You may have been better at negotiation then myself but overall I was after a nice clean low hour engine/complete logs plane that had recent Annual & IFR certification - if I paid a little more then I should have, well so be it I just felt it met my needs better then many I was looking at in my price range.

Hope you find what your looking for and for a great price.
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Yup that was me and more than likely that was AggieMike going on my behalf to look at it and give me a report. No worries here my man, dont second guess, if your happy thats all that matters! I think you got a great plane and it will serve you well.

Thanks, im still looking of course and one will find me.:)
 
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