Going to learn tail wheel

40YearDream

40YearDream

Pre-takeoff checklist
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40YearDream
The flight school I've earned my PPL (PPC?) through now has a Cessna 140 (1946 edition) available for training. After a few short 'hamburger runs' with friends, I'm looking for something else. Tail wheel looks like a fun challenge. I've flown lots of r/c tail draggers, some were easy, some were unmanageable - will be interesting to see how this compares (besides the price!) Planning a first lesson this Saturday - grass fields love tail draggers!
 
40YearDream said:
The flight school I've earned my PPL (PPC?) through now has a Cessna 140 (1946 edition) available for training. After a few short 'hamburger runs' with friends, I'm looking for something else. Tail wheel looks like a fun challenge. I've flown lots of r/c tail draggers, some were easy, some were unmanageable - will be interesting to see how this compares (besides the price!) Planning a first lesson this Saturday - grass fields love tail draggers!
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It will ruin you. No trike will ever be fun again.
 
Another taildragger convert in the making! :thumbsup:

Early morning prepping the Dawg for a flight:
Early morning prep Dawg.jpg
 
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I've been trying to learn how to fly a tailwheel for nearly 10 years now. I ain't real good at it but I ain't bought nothing yet! :dunno:
 
I haven't flown with a training wheel in so long, that when someone asks me to fly their nose wheel, I'm actually a little nervous. Tailwheel is the only way to go.
 
Dan Thomas said:
It will ruin you. No trike will ever be fun again.
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Sure, it flies exactly the same as any other plane, the only difference is landing/takeoffs so if your goal is to make your landings more challenging ( and thus presumably more fun ) by switching to a platform that is inherently more unstable without offering any other real benefits , that’s your ticket.
 
There's a thrill in mastering something that few people master, and there's a thrill in finding out how flying used to be many years ago.

One in 500 people (0.2%) hold a pilot license or permit of any sort, in Canada or the US. That makes pilots pretty rare. Of those, I'd figure that no more than one in ten can fly a taildragger, making those people one in 5000.
 
Warmi said:
Sure, it flies exactly the same as any other plane, the only difference is landing/takeoffs so if your goal is to make your landings more challenging ( and thus presumably more fun ) by switching to a platform that is inherently more unstable without offering any other real benefits , that’s your ticket.
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No advantage? Have you ever been in and out of a REALLY rough field in a taildragger and the same field with your training wheels?
 
MBDiagMan said:
No advantage? Have you ever been in and out of a REALLY rough field in a taildragger and the same field with your training wheels?
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I don’t fly to “really rough fields”.
 
Warmi said:
I don’t fly to “really rough fields”.
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Some of us do. You wrote that there is NO advantage to a tail wheel implying that there is no advantage for anyone.

My high school geometry teacher said; “ say what you mean and mean what you say.”
 
MBDiagMan said:
Some of us do. You wrote that there is NO advantage to a tail wheel implying that there is no advantage for anyone.

My high school geometry teacher said; “ say what you mean and mean what you say.”
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There is no advantage to great majority of tail wheel pilots who never venture beyond paved runways or ,at best, grass strips.
It is mostly about bragging rights and “I don’t need your training wheels” attitude you so aptly demonstrated in your original post.
 
Warmi said:
There is no advantage to great majority of tail wheel pilots who never venture beyond paved runways or ,at best, grass strips.
It is mostly about bragging rights and “I don’t need your training wheels” attitude you so aptly demonstrated in your original post.
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The “I don’t need your training wheels” attitude isn’t an advantage?
 
Warmi said:
Sure, it flies exactly the same as any other plane, the only difference is landing/takeoffs...
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This statement is inaccurate.

Just a few minutes doing upper air work in a simple taildragger that does not have frise differential ailerons will demonstrate how little most tricycle Cessna trained pilots know about using the rudder.

For me, just doing something as simple as figure 8 steep turns in the Husky was an eye opener after decades of flying Cessnas and Pipers. Definitely improved my piloting skills in ways beyond takeoffs and landings.
 
The other day, flying with a pilot friend, he complimented me on my landings, "You land every single time with your nose wheel right smack dab on the centerline." Even though it's been several years since my tailwheel days, I still credit my tailwheel training with making that happen...not that I wasn't capable before getting my tailwheel, it just upped my game.
 
Country Flier said:
The other day, flying with a pilot friend, he complimented me on my landings, "You land every single time with your nose wheel right smack dab on the centerline." Even though it's been several years since my tailwheel days, I still credit my tailwheel training with making that happen...not that I wasn't capable before getting my tailwheel, it just upped my game.
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I demo’d a nosedragger Maule once...the salesman said I was the first pilot he’d seen actually touch down on the mains.
 
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Country Flier said:
The other day, flying with a pilot friend, he complimented me on my landings, "You land every single time with your nose wheel right smack dab on the centerline." Even though it's been several years since my tailwheel days, I still credit my tailwheel training with making that happen...not that I wasn't capable before getting my tailwheel, it just upped my game.
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All my prior instructors said "land on the centerline". My tailwheel instructor insisted that I land on "the center of the centerline".
 
GRG55 said:
This statement is inaccurate.

Just a few minutes doing upper air work in a simple taildragger that does not have frise differential ailerons will demonstrate how little most tricycle Cessna trained pilots know about using the rudder.

For me, just doing something as simple as figure 8 steep turns in the Husky was an eye opener after decades of flying Cessnas and Pipers. Definitely improved my piloting skills in ways beyond takeoffs and landings.
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But that's not inherent in a tailwheel aircraft, just older ones without some other aerodynamic advances. I'm guessing the Texas Tailwheel conversion Cessnas fly like any other Cessna.
 
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jsstevens said:
But that's not inherent in a tailwheel aircraft, just older ones without some other aerodynamic advances. I'm guessing the Texas Tailwheel conversion Cessnas fly like any other Cessna.
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I would venture the overwhelming majority of tailwheel aircraft out there flying are "older ones without some other aerodynamic advances" compared to the number of converted Cessna 150/152s currently flying.

Even the relatively modern Citabria in our Club fleet (which is newer than the last 152 Cessna built) does not have flaps, requiring students actually learn how to slip the airplane if they want to avoid a long shallow approach. And though it has differential ailerons, the adverse yaw is noticeably more than a Cessna 150 with frise ailerons. My 1996 Husky has simple ailerons (with spades to reduce the stick forces) and the adverse yaw, if I'm not leading slightly with the rudder, is quite impressive.
 
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GRG55 said:
I would venture the overwhelming majority of tailwheel aircraft out there flying are "older ones without some other aerodynamic advances" compared to the number of converted Cessna 150/152s currently flying.

Even the relatively modern Citabria in our Club fleet (which is newer than the last 152 Cessna built) does not have flaps, requiring students actually learn how to slip the airplane if they want to avoid a long shallow approach. And though it has differential ailerons, the adverse yaw is noticeably more than a Cessna 150 with frise ailerons. My 1996 Husky has simple ailerons (with spades to reduce the stick forces) and the adverse yaw, if I'm not leading slightly with the rudder, is quite impressive.
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I have no argument with that, simply pointing out that it is not inherent in the tail wheel, but in other characteristics of the airplanes.
 
Another advantage of tailwheel (beside the swagger effect on the pilot) is that less drag gives a bit more speed ... and more speed is something every pilot longs for!

Seriously, flying a tailwheel teaches you about being more in tune with the airplane and what it's doing as that stuff gets really important when the rubber meets the road (runway). I've rode with pilots in nose draggers that made landings and the side loading was quite noticeable. I usually remark that they would never get away with that slop in a taildragger!
 
Ya more speed is what I’m looking for.
Taildragger skill is highly over rated, it’s just a license to worry.
 
Warmi said:
There is no advantage to great majority of tail wheel pilots who never venture beyond paved runways or ,at best, grass strips.
It is mostly about bragging rights and “I don’t need your training wheels” attitude you so aptly demonstrated in your original post.
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I REALLY don’t get your attitude. There is no advantage to not being locked into a runway? There is no advantage to doing something because of the challenge and then coming to love it? I try to explain how much I enjoy tailwheel flying by describing how much of my time is tailwheel leading me to say that I love my airplane and that is demonstrating an attitude?? I was basically responding encouragement to the OP, and YOU get an attitude over it? Do you not love YOUR airplane? Maybe you need to do some challenging flying.

The Advantage, as you call it, is doing something challenging and that you love to do. I have been known to get in the pattern on a gusty, variable crosswind day just for the practice and challenge. Since you’ve apparently never successfully done that, how can you know if that is fun for someone else?

Fella, I think that YOU are the one with the insecurity.
 
Country Flier said:
The other day, flying with a pilot friend, he complimented me on my landings, "You land every single time with your nose wheel right smack dab on the centerline." Even though it's been several years since my tailwheel days, I still credit my tailwheel training with making that happen...not that I wasn't capable before getting my tailwheel, it just upped my game.
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Yes, it will definitely wake up your feet. My first 7 hours were in an Aeronca Champ. When I then got in a 150 with training wheels, I had enough constant rudder attention that it was almost as if the 150 had no rudder pedals.
 
I don't go into many places that "require" a tailwheel or my 29" bush wheels, but sometime I do. It would be quite hard on a tri gear to land in the hayfield where I do. It also gives me a bit of security if I have to land somewhere for an emergency.
Tricycle gear planes with bigger tires can go ALMOST everywhere I go, but with little stock tires, not many can go where I go.
 
MBDiagMan said:
I REALLY don’t get your attitude. There is no advantage to not being locked into a runway? There is no advantage to doing something because of the challenge and then coming to love it? I try to explain how much I enjoy tailwheel flying by describing how much of my time is tailwheel leading me to say that I love my airplane and that is demonstrating an attitude?? I was basically responding encouragement to the OP, and YOU get an attitude over it? Do you not love YOUR airplane? Maybe you need to do some challenging flying.

The Advantage, as you call it, is doing something challenging and that you love to do. I have been known to get in the pattern on a gusty, variable crosswind day just for the practice and challenge. Since you’ve apparently never successfully done that, how can you know if that is fun for someone else?

Fella, I think that YOU are the one with the insecurity.
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Just responded to your post where you suggested that flying a tricycle is something you do before you graduate to a real thing ( the training wheels comment ) - I don’t have attitude , but you do since you are the one grading people one what sort of planes they fly.
In any case ...I don’t really care so whatever man ... do your ‘real men fly X ‘ thing and I will keep doing my training wheels.
 
Grading people? You need to take a breath.

Yeah, it sounds like you’re not one that’s up for a challenge, and having fun, so that might be a good choice.

Come to think of it, you would probably be doing those of us who do things like retractible and tailwheel flying a favor by staying away from it. When people not cut out for it have their accidents, it runs up insurance costs even for those of us that have never had any such events.
 
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GRG55 said:
This statement is inaccurate.

Just a few minutes doing upper air work in a simple taildragger that does not have frise differential ailerons will demonstrate how little most tricycle Cessna trained pilots know about using the rudder.

For me, just doing something as simple as figure 8 steep turns in the Husky was an eye opener after decades of flying Cessnas and Pipers. Definitely improved my piloting skills in ways beyond takeoffs and landings.
Click to expand...

I like to point out that using the rudder for the purpose you are mentioning is not really a feature but a bug that designers and engineers been trying to compensate for the last 100 years or so.
So if you have a choice between a plane that can be flown mostly without worrying about it and one that forces you to constantly compensate for it, you are not really “improving your skills” , just wasting time compensating for something that you wouldn’t even have to worry about flying a modern plane.. it is like driving an 80 years old car and bragging about your highly tuned “engine cranking” skills ... but whatever floats your boat.
 
Puhlease!

Have you ever tried tailwheel flying? Just curious whether or not you are making statements with zero experience to base it on.
 
MBDiagMan said:
Grading people? You need to take a breath.

Yeah, it sounds like you’re not one that’s up for a challenge, and having fun, so that might be a good choice.
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I already said I am not but I can reiterate it for you again ... yes I am not up for that challenge - I fly recreationally, only when it is real nice out there and generally consider my flying sort of relaxing activity so obviously the less I have to sweat and worry about various mechanical and procedural parts of flying the better.

And yes I did try ... last year got myself 5 or 6 hours flying a Zlin Savage Cub classic (N511SM) just to give it a shoot and I found it mostly boring and uncomfortable compared to my regular ride so obviously I am not you and that’s that.
 
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Warmi said:
...So if you have a choice between a plane that can be flown mostly without worrying about it and one that forces you to constantly compensate for it, you are not really “improving your skills” , just wasting time compensating for something that you wouldn’t even have to worry about flying a modern plane...
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"Self-driving" cars should be a godsend for you.

Warmi said:
...I fly recreationally, only when it is real nice out there and generally consider my flying sort of relaxing activity...
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Exactly why I fly a taildragger.
 
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