Go arounds?

[poadeleted20]

1) How often do you practice them?

As an instructor, several times a month. As a pilot, I don't other than on my flight review every two years.

2) How often do you do one in real life?

Probably 4-6 times a year. But when you fly 400 hours a year, you get a lot more opportunities for that to be required than a typical nonprofessional pilot flying 50-75 hours a year just for fun.

 

[Captain]

As an instructor, several times a month. As a pilot, I don't other than on my flight review every two years.

Probably 4-6 times a year. But when you fly 400 hours a year, you get a lot more opportunities for that to be required than a typical nonprofessional pilot flying 50-75 hours a year just for fun.

Wow, 400 hours a year. Big numbers...

 

[weilke]

Experienced a go-around due to wind-shear on a commercial flight today.

 

[James331]

Wow, 400 hours a year. Big numbers...

I don't log nearly as many hours with my current job, last job I logged about 1k a year, think I'd average maybe one go around a year back then.

 

[upstateny]

Practicing go arounds/missed approaches will get you out of the mindset of landing expectancy.

+1
Instead of thinking of each landing as "I got it down", think "I didn't have to go around."

The trouble with practicing go-arounds is, you know when you're going to do it. Pick some decision points (altitude over threshold, above/below glide path or PAPI/VASI lights, too fast/slow over threshold, etc.) to trigger a go-around. Let them tell you to go around.

 

[Banjo33]

Timely thread. Did my BFR this morning. Tower sent me around on final after the plane ahead of me took too long to clear the runway. I don't practice them, but they do happen occasionally.

 

[woodchucker]

Speaking of go arounds.... what is the procedure for a go around once the wheels kiss the runway? Never really discussed that in training. Is it basically a T&G? Flaps up and power? Or... do you want to keep the flaps in landing configuration?

 

[jordane93]

Speaking of go arounds.... what is the procedure for a go around once the wheels kiss the runway? Never really discussed that in training. Is it basically a T&G? Flaps up and power? Or... do you want to keep the flaps in landing configuration?

Full power, establish positive rate of climb, get rid of landing flaps. Never dump all flaps at once when climbing out. You'll head straight back down to the ground.

 

[woodchucker]

Full power, establish positive rate of climb, get rid of landing flaps. Never dump all flaps at once when climbing out. You'll head straight back down to the ground.

So, the same procedure as a go around? Get off the runway first... establish positive rate, then incremental on the flaps?

That might be worth practicing? Or is that considered dangerous territory?

 

[StinkBug]

I dont generally practice them, but I can remember 3 that I've done somewhat recently. One was in a cardinal at an unfamiliar airport, came in a bit fast, blew through ground effect and bounced, immediately went full throttle and went around before coming down again. 2 weeks ago I flew a friend to Catalina for her birthday in an Arrow. I was high on final and called the go around from 200' up. I knew I wasn't gonna make it cleanly so I just tried again. Third was last saturday landing my new to me Mooney at a narrow private airstrip next to my favorite racetrack. Had a direct cross wind and came down with a little bounce, it would have settled down ok but i caught a gust that turned the plane enough that I called it and tried again. All 3 were pretty much non-events and I probably could have gotten all 3 on the ground without incident but there's no reason to test your luck. I like to fly, so what's wrong with another few minutes in the air?

 

[MAKG1]

Full power, establish positive rate of climb, get rid of landing flaps. Never dump all flaps at once when climbing out. You'll head straight back down to the ground.

FOLLOW THE POH. Cessna trainers differ from the procedure above. For a 172, it's 20 deg flap immediately, then milk the rest off with positive rate of climb. A 172N will not climb out of ground effect at full flap on a hot day, even at sea level.

 

[woodchucker]

FOLLOW THE POH. Cessna trainers differ from the procedure above. For a 172, it's 20 deg flap immediately, then milk the rest off with positive rate of climb. A 172N will not climb out of ground effect at full flap on a hot day, even at sea level.

I fly a 172N, and I can't find it in the POH, other than ... quote: "Normal and short field takeoffs are performed with flaps up....Use of 10* flaps is reserved for soft fields." It goes on to say that at altitude in hot temps with obstacles the use of any flaps is negated, and actually not recommended. Balked landings are discussed... the basic go-around procedure: full power, positive rate, flaps up in increments.

So, my question remains, if you get wheels on the ground but need to get the heck off the runway.... what do you do? Pull the flaps, or not?

 

[noobJohn]

I'm thinking that if you're solidly on the ground (i.e. not between bounces) but you need to take off immediately (stopping not an option) you should configure for short field takeoff and fly it off in that configuration. In the old 172 I fly most often that'd be no flaps and 65mph rotate/climb.

So, my question remains, if you get wheels on the ground but need to get the heck off the runway.... what do you do? Pull the flaps, or not?

 

[MAKG1]

I fly a 172N, and I can't find it in the POH, other than ... quote: "Normal and short field takeoffs are performed with flaps up....Use of 10* flaps is reserved for soft fields." It goes on to say that at altitude in hot temps with obstacles the use of any flaps is negated, and actually not recommended. Balked landings are discussed... the basic go-around procedure: full power, positive rate, flaps up in increments.

So, my question remains, if you get wheels on the ground but need to get the heck off the runway.... what do you do? Pull the flaps, or not?

Reread that balked landing checklist. You've paraphrased it a bit too much.

At full flap, attempting to take off again after planting the mains is not likely to avoid your new obstacle. You'll still hit it, only faster and with more ways to smush the aircraft. Remember, you can brake to a complete stop in 750 feet in standard conditions. How far off the runway can you be in those conditions with 40 deg flaps hanging out?

 

[woodchucker]

Reread that balked landing checklist. You've paraphrased it a bit too much.

At full flap, attempting to take off again after planting the mains is not likely to avoid your new obstacle. You'll still hit it, only faster and with more ways to smush the aircraft. Remember, you can brake to a complete stop in 750 feet in standard conditions. How far off the runway can you be in those conditions with 40 deg flaps hanging out?

Essentially, the POH in the plane I fly implies that a balked landing is something that occurs before wheels down.

I'm asking... on the spot... a grizzly bear decides to appear on the runway after the wheels are down...

Do you go full power with flaps hanging down to clear it?

Or... do you pull the flaps to 10 or 0?

Or... do you just slam on the brakes and hope it moves or the damage is slight?

It's a split second decision.... I have never thought about this nor trained for that.

Obviously if you pull the flaps you lose lift ... ditto if you go full power with full flaps for reasons of drag. This is just an interesting question for me. I'm a very low time pilot and curious on what others have experienced or trained for.

 

[ClimbnSink]

You should think about this stuff. As mentioned attempting a go around will sometimes just add energy to the crash and that is the last thing you want.

Essentially, the POH in the plane I fly implies that a balked landing is something that occurs before wheels down.

I'm asking... on the spot... a grizzly bear decides to appear on the runway after the wheels are down...

Do you go full power with flaps hanging down to clear it?

Or... do you pull the flaps to 10 or 0?

Or... do you just slam on the brakes and hope it moves or the damage is slight?

It's a split second decision.... I have never thought about this nor trained for that.

Obviously if you pull the flaps you lose lift ... ditto if you go full power with full flaps for reasons of drag. This is just an interesting question for me. I'm a very low time pilot and curious on what others have experienced or trained for.

 

[overdrive148]

During my checkride I did a soft field landing that the instructor told me to turn into a short field takeoff. I was hit with a wall of confusion and he walked me through it. I don't remember the sequence or the setup but we didn't die and my first thought was "pull in the flaps fully before rotating"

 

[BillTIZ]

I instruct in gliders. Go around is not an option. Every approach results in a landing somewhere. Hopefully where you want and in the proper direction.

Go around in power airplane, what ever the POH calls for.
Instrument approach to MDA and missed approach procedure.

Most aircraft I have flown call to retract the flaps to at least 1/2 during the initial phase.
High wing Cessnas really like to pitch up when power is applied with full flaps.

What are the soft or short field flap requirements for the plane?
Most planes are 10degrees or 1st notch with manual flaps.

 

[woodchucker]

You should think about this stuff. As mentioned attempting a go around will sometimes just add energy to the crash and that is the last thing you want.

This is why I am browsing this forum. And you are absolutely correct I really need to be thinking about this stuff. And that other stuff.... and all of that other stuff too.

 

[Gucci Pilot]

First go-around I did for real was on my initial solo. Guy decided to take the runway while I was on final. He wasn't paying attention and apologized, no harm no foul. As for practice, only what is required for currency.

 

[MAKG1]

Essentially, the POH in the plane I fly implies that a balked landing is something that occurs before wheels down.

I'm asking... on the spot... a grizzly bear decides to appear on the runway after the wheels are down...

Do you go full power with flaps hanging down to clear it?

Or... do you pull the flaps to 10 or 0?

Or... do you just slam on the brakes and hope it moves or the damage is slight?

It's a split second decision.... I have never thought about this nor trained for that.

Obviously if you pull the flaps you lose lift ... ditto if you go full power with full flaps for reasons of drag. This is just an interesting question for me. I'm a very low time pilot and curious on what others have experienced or trained for.

Do you want to hit the bear fast or slow? You're not going to clear it if it's within stopping distance.

 

[Stewartb]

You should think about this stuff. As mentioned attempting a go around will sometimes just add energy to the crash and that is the last thing you want.

What kind of airplanes do you fly? Your comment makes no sense to me so I'm trying to understand what aircraft type it might apply to.

My most common balked landings caused by runway incursions come from kids on four wheelers and dogs. Sometimes both. In winter I have to watch for snow machines. Boats when on floats. When in doubt I'll make a low pass. The noise of a big flat prop going from near idle to full RPM right over their heads is usually enough to scare them off.

 

[MAKG1]

What kind of airplanes do you fly? Your comment makes no sense to me so I'm trying to understand what aircraft type it might apply to.

My most common balked landings caused by runway incursions come from kids on four wheelers and dogs. Sometimes both. In winter I have to watch for snow machines. Boats when on floats. When in doubt I'll make a low pass. The noise of a big flat prop going from near idle to full RPM right over their heads is usually enough to scare them off.

Look at the context.

The poster is trying to justify a go-around with the mains planted at full flap.

There aren't many situations where that's going to work. The 50 foot distance at full flap is often much further than the stopping distance. Pushing that = stall/spin, as unless you've landed really flat and bounced, you're right at or below the stall speed. So, you'll skim along in ground effect with real high drag, and you're going to stay there. This ain't gonna end well.

A go-around from 100 feet up at approach speed is much more likely, and will be substantially more successful.

Even if a go-around is done correctly, a proper short field takeoff still takes more than the stopping distance. With a large obstruction like a bear or a quad, you're much better off to try threshold brake if the wheels are on the surface. Unless it's a sheet of ice and braking is out of the question. Even then, it still may be a better option to plow into it at 30 knots instead of Vx.

 

[danhagan]

why is direct wind a problem? 29 knots headwind with 3 knots for a gust factor aint bad and makes for a very slow and short landing

due to runway orientation kedc almost always has a crosswind.

It's not ... the word crosswind should follow the word direct. Around here you wouldn't fly if you couldn't handle high wind.

 

[MAKG1]

Dude, it is VERY different if you're still airborne. The poster asked about go arounds from the ground. Please react to the actual context, rather than inserting your own.

There are a number of common trainers -- especially 172M and 172Ns -- that simply are not going to climb with the flaps hanging all the way out, particularly if the weather is not -35 C.

While you can tell all the fish stories you want about 400 foot rollouts, it's all irrelevant to the question at hand. It was posed by a student pilot, not a hero.

 

[Stewartb]

Deleted. Have a nice flying career.

 

[Skyscraper]

Not all go-arounds are the pilot's fault.

Palo Alto was a zoo yesterday. When you sequence a 90 knot Diamond close behind a 55 knot 152, you can guess what's coming next.

I've gone around for slow student pilots, birds on short final or on the runway, other critters (except for one squirrel I made into a speed bump by the taxiway turnoff), opposite direction traffic (Watsonville), wind shear (reported and unreported), and of course the run-of-the-mill bad approach errors.

It was a joke. hence the ""

 

[Henning]

+1
Instead of thinking of each landing as "I got it down", think "I didn't have to go around."

The trouble with practicing go-arounds is, you know when you're going to do it. Pick some decision points (altitude over threshold, above/below glide path or PAPI/VASI lights, too fast/slow over threshold, etc.) to trigger a go-around. Let them tell you to go around.

There's one problem to this, it doesn't always hold true. Sometimes you are going to put it down period, go around is not an option whether due to terrain or power failure, so you better get used to it and learn to handle the plane down low same as up high.

You can't ever limit your thinking, and you should always train for worst case. Every flight is a training flight.

 

[OCviaMotorCity]

1) How often do you practice them?
2) How often do you do one in real life?

Confession time, my answers are :

1) Never (did 2 or 3 total in training)
2) I've done exactly 1 since getting my license

I think I need to start practicing them occasionally. Disclaimer, I don't land with hero crosswinds or fly into short fields.

Considering I train at KSNA, Class B, with a moderate amount of commercial aircraft and Southwest planes seeming to taxi at their pleasure, the understanding and ability to perform the go around at a moment's notice is critical.

Below is a youtube clip of one of my approaches where KSNA TWR called for a Go Around for me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDHuKrhKr30

 

[JHW]

the last time I landed at st louis (its been awhile) the conversation went like this:

tower: Lear 123 turn left next high speed
me: Lear no reversers
tower: TWA 123 heavy go around
my left seater to me: I just got back every twa ticket I've ever bought

 

[flyingmoose]

I can't say that I have actually practiced them on my own with no prompting. IPC's, Flight reviews etc... Although I make everyone do one during flight review time also. Done quite a few over the years for various reasons.