Glider update

[cwyckham]

The spoilers on the 2-33 are very effective. I personally think all instructors should include demonstration and training for approaches to landings using full spoilers on the entire final approach so each student knows how steep their approach can be if needed rather than thinking they need to figure how much to extend their downwind and base legs if they are a little high in the pattern. Add a good forward slip and you can drop like an elevator if needed. Also good stuff to be comfortable with when landing at unfamiliar fields or off field if necessary.

I second that. I"ve never used them for a full final, but we certainly intentionally came in high a few times and then used full spoilers and maximum slip right to the flare. Tons of fun! It's very intimidating the first time you try it to be coming down that fast and that sideways. The 2-33 makes lots of noise too while you slip it. The you pop out of the slip and ease off the spoilers a bit and it gets quiet and you grease in the landing. Feels like a million bucks.

Chris

 

[vontresc]

Yeah slipping the 2-33 makes the pattern look almost like the space Shuttle though

If you want some really good airbrakes, the dual surface brakes on my Ka-6 will bring you down to earth in a hurry.

 

[wby0nder]

Vne limiting brakes like I think the K6 has are really great. Wish all gliders had them. You certainly can do breathtaking approaches with them. Example, with the Schweizer 2-32 (thats thirty TWO not thirty three, the almost 3 seat higher performance Schweizer) we'd occasionally do landings at Boulder where you'd start on final at 1000agl with the numbers out of sight below the nose. Pull the brakes, drop the nose, and dive nearly straight down (feels like straight down) flair, close the brakes, and land normally. Almost every time the phone in the office trailer would be ringing by the time you rolled up. Someone always thought a glider had crashed into the pond at the approach end of nine zero.

Vne on that ship is I think 150 knots and you could point it straight down with the boards out. Not to take anything away from the Cirrus but THAT is really civilized skydiving.

 

[cwyckham]

Vne on that ship is I think 150 knots and you could point it straight down with the boards out. Not to take anything away from the Cirrus but THAT is really civilized skydiving.

I have to try that!

 

[BillTIZ]

Over Jean NV last Saturday in an SGS 2-33A, you can see where the inversion layer is. With all this Global Warming, what's with all this snow in the Southwest Mojave Desert!

 

[vontresc]

Nice Shot,Bill. How high up were you?

 

[rottydaddy]

I second that. I"ve never used them for a full final, but we certainly intentionally came in high a few times and then used full spoilers and maximum slip right to the flare. Tons of fun! It's very intimidating the first time you try it to be coming down that fast and that sideways. The 2-33 makes lots of noise too while you slip it. The you pop out of the slip and ease off the spoilers a bit and it gets quiet and you grease in the landing. Feels like a million bucks.

Chris

Yes, I've already done that... and they do make quite a racket. First time he demo'd a proper slip in the 2-33 I was like "so... you're absolutely sure the tail in't coming off...?"

 

[wby0nder]

Yes, I've already done that... and they do make quite a racket. First time he demo'd a proper slip in the 2-33 I was like "so... you're absolutely sure the tail in't coming off...?"

The other thing some folks are paranoid about is stalling and spinning. Many gliders including the 33 are somewhat stall resistant in the slip. When you start to get too slow the rudder becomes less effective in holding the slip so you start to turn which on final approach is immediately noticable. At altitude try a full slip (rudder to the floor) and bring the stick all the way back. It rarely will break into a stall/spin. In even a mild skidding turn it will drop and spin like a top. Slip are good, skids are not good.

 

[rottydaddy]

The other thing some folks are paranoid about is stalling and spinning. Many gliders including the 33 are somewhat stall resistant in the slip. When you start to get too slow the rudder becomes less effective in holding the slip so you start to turn which on final approach is immediately noticable. At altitude try a full slip (rudder to the floor) and bring the stick all the way back. It rarely will break into a stall/spin. In even a mild skidding turn it will drop and spin like a top. Slip are good, skids are not good.

True... and I will try that (raising the nose in a good slip) next time.

I've done quite a bit of slipping, and intentional stalls, including accelerated stalls while maintaining a turn. It's a bit of work to stall it in general, let alone in a slip. At first, getting the same ruckus from the tail during slips and stalls was worrisome to me, but there are subtle differences, and the proof is in just doing these maneuvers. It's very reluctant to break in the direction the nose is pointed if you have the other wing down. Keep the string centered, and you can go around and around hauling the stick back and releasing without any ominous signs.

But if you're "overcoordinated" in a turn (too much "inside" rudder), that's another story.

I had a spin demo'd once, after a series of accelerated stalls... don't remember, but I guess he must have used "inside" rudder to force it to do that. But the spin was very predictable, with the nose wanting to drop a great deal, which helps in the recovery (as long as you don't wait too long).

The 2-33 is a very good "old school" trainer, I think.

 

[BillTIZ]

Nice Shot,Bill. How high up were you?

The inversion layer was at about 5K MSL or 2200AGL.. it was a 4K AGL tow to run a CFI candidate through the maneuvers one more time before his check ride that day.