Girdwood crash, August 4 2019, stupid pilot tricks

Even better is the rest of the pilot community when interviewed... “oh yeah he and the airplane owner always drank like fish anytime they got into an argument”. LOL.
 
Pretty hard to believe someone would be so reckless with the lives of his passengers. Senseless loss of life
 
It wasn't the best performing plane and conditions pretty much assured drafts along the ridges. Y'all will blame alcohol but there were other factors involved. Three strike rule.
 
Stewartb said:
It wasn't the best performing plane and conditions pretty much assured drafts along the ridges. Y'all will blame alcohol but there were other factors involved. Three strike rule.
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Yabut everyone knows that alcohol impairs judgement. Their decision to fly after drinking heavily has to be the primary factor. -Skip
 
(Pilot + Alcohol) & Passengers = Murder in the First Degree
 
I wonder what the actual cause of the crash was.. and how many times this guy flew while plastered..
 
As I recall there was an instructor in the right seat and his blood alcohol, while present, was much better than the guy the papers identify as the pilot. No doubt alcohol is a factor. But that flight, which I'm familiar with, is not always simple.
 
I have flown in Alaska with several different pilots, and never a whiff of alcohol any time. I have hung out at several airports, and never smelled alcohol around any one there to fly, and only one passenger smelled.

He was an old prospector forced by his employer to fly to a new area and establish a claim. He had never flown, and did not want to have the first flight. He had a few, to steady his nerves. Central to Eagle flight in a Navajo Chieftain.

Those pilots are a mostly sober lot, when flying. They do drink off duty, like most people, but are pretty reliable on the 8 hour rule.
 
Maybe more common than you think...an interim report from the FAA received through freedom of information act when one of their active employees crashed in my airplane killing him and his six year old daughter, indicated five empty bottles of Reds Apple Ale and the receipt of purchase...also that alcohol not yet considered a factor...but maybe that’s be cause the six year old girl was at .178 BAC. 17 months and no NTSB report for PA-28 crash.
 
Bell206 said:
Curious. How much time have you actually spent in or flown in Alaska?
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Less time flying in Alaska as observing how people fly in Alaska. What I have observed is a lot of pilots taking totally unwarranted risks when safer options were readily available. “That was nuts” was a phrase I openly said a lot.
 
Clip4 said:
Less time flying in Alaska as observing how people fly in Alaska. What I have observed is a lot of pilots taking totally unwarranted risks when safer options were readily available. “That was nuts” was a phrase I openly said a lot.
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I read a book by an Alaskan bush pilot, and I was amazed at the level to which he took scud-running. :eek2:

I have no idea whether he was typical, however.
 
Palmpilot said:
I read a book by an Alaskan bush pilot, and I was amazed at the level to which he took scud-running. :eek2:

I have no idea whether he was typical, however.
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Typical, pilots in Alaska get angry when aircraft arrive IFR because it stops all the SVFRs.

The Anchorage FSDO used to publish a pamphlet for the public giving indications of unsafe operation
 
Where did you observe that? Be specific. Were the pilots intoxicated?
 
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Warlock said:
Maybe more common than you think...an interim report from the FAA received through freedom of information act when one of their active employees crashed in my airplane killing him and his six year old daughter, indicated five empty bottles of Reds Apple Ale and the receipt of purchase...also that alcohol not yet considered a factor...but maybe that’s be cause the six year old girl was at .178 BAC. 17 months and no NTSB report for PA-28 crash.
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Every time you let more detail out on that situation the worse it gets
 
Clip4 said:
What I have observed is a lot of pilots taking totally unwarranted risks when safer options were readily available.
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And that doesn't happen in the lower 48 on a weekly basis? A PC-12 pilot recently took an "unwarranted risk" and wiped out half his family. So it's hardly an Alaska issue as you put it.
Clip4 said:
Less time flying in Alaska.
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By less time, do you mean you mean you've actually been there or not? Your comments above indicate you have very limited personal exposure to Alaskan aviation.
 
Warlock said:
Maybe more common than you think...an interim report from the FAA received through freedom of information act when one of their active employees crashed in my airplane killing him and his six year old daughter, indicated five empty bottles of Reds Apple Ale and the receipt of purchase...also that alcohol not yet considered a factor...but maybe that’s be cause the six year old girl was at .178 BAC. 17 months and no NTSB report for PA-28 crash.
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What's your point?
 
I don't claim to know a whole lot of my fellow Alaskan pilots, but in general I find they are as just as much a safety-conscious bunch as any other pilots, sometimes even more so, given the nature of the risks here. The dramatic terrain, the routes where the only way there is through a narrow pass or over water, the mountains that make their own weather and it can change quickly... MEA's are very high and there's a lot of ice, so IFR is uncommon for Part 91-ers. Destinations might be places that do not have any road service, so the pressure to make a flight (because your passengers have no other option to go by ground) can be enormous. Lots of places without radar or emergency services, or runways.

Looking into why Alaska has such a "crashy" reputation will lead to an interesting discussion, but "widespread pilot drunkenness" would not be on the list. There's maybe more of the "off-runway machismo" effect amongst some of the tundra-tire Super-Cub flyers (no offense, @Stewartb!), but I'm guessing the idiot-to-competent ratio is pretty similar to other places, it's just that Alaska is less forgiving of the screwups.

We're all just as horrified at the alcohol-influence of this crash in Girdwood. Completely preventable and needlessly tragic.
 
No offense taken. I enjoy the STOL category and built a very specialized plane for it. Being immersed in that culture I don't hear of many accidents with injuries. Some nose-overs happen. Not much else.

Great comment about part 91. Not much IFR and only a couple of handfuls of ATC facilities in the state. Most of us are flying to and from uncontrolled strips. We're used to self-responsibility and we have a good maintenance and safety culture as a result. The FAA has been on a safety crusade for most of this century and it's working.

Part 135 has big problems but none I've heard of include alcohol. If you read the news that's more common for the 121s.
 
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hindsight2020 said:
What's your point?
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Alcohol may be more common than we think...You have a problem with me stating the fact? I find your question a little strange...a little to close to home?
 
Clip4 said:
Less time flying in Alaska as observing how people fly in Alaska. What I have observed is a lot of pilots taking totally unwarranted risks when safer options were readily available. “That was nuts” was a phrase I openly said a lot.
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I have roughly 6500 hours flying in Alaska. What you consider nuts I would probably consider a normal day. VFR is legal at 500 and 2 or 1000 and 1. And safe, unless it is icing conditions or trying to go through a mountain pass without being able to see the other end. I have flown more Special VFRs than I can even think of, and it never bothered me having to wait for an IFR to come in. Knowing the local terrain and local weather anomalies makes flying safer. I have used, and I have heard other pilots using the radio to talk to other pilots to get a pirep on conditions in the area. On weather days pilots are using the radio making position reports and asking/reporting weather conditions. Flying in white out conditions is not nearly as scary as books and Tv shows want you to believe, but then again they are selling books to make money. If I wrote about 98% of my flights in Alaska it would be very boring.

I will go so far the say that flying in Alaska is not as scary or as life threatening as most folks think. Now with web cams it is so much easier to check weather in villages. https://avcams.faa.gov/

I hated to have private pilots from the lower 48 as a passenger in Alaska because they always think they know more than me when it comes to flying.

Then there is ''Eskimo ADF''.
 
Where in the bush would you be burning time on a special for an IFR arrival?
 
Warlock said:
Alcohol may be more common than we think...You have a problem with me stating the fact? I find your question a little strange...a little to close to home?
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Oh not all, it was a face value question. I actually dont drink, so swing and a miss there. But no, of course I dont have a problem with your comments in regards to alcohol. I have no dog in that fight as someone who doesn't have to worry about occupational concerns relating to alcohol, as a non drinker pilot.

Thank you for clarifying. cheers! (no pun intended) :D
 
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Stewartb said:
Where in the bush would you be burning time on a special for an IFR arrival?
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Class E airspace is the most common. For example, Nome, Kotzebue, Point Hope and the village formerly known as Barrow.

Bethel is a totally different SVFR experience. There is 4 different holding areas, and there could be 10 or more planes waiting. The tower will designate someone as the leader and when the airspace is returned to the tower then the tower will clear all planes in that holding pattern for a SVFR into the airspace. Totally nuts but effective in getting everyone in.
 
Hood does the same. SVFR holding traffic must have visual with all others. You know the drill. As soon as somebody says contact lost they all get sent away, so they lie. Me? I turn around.
 
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