GI-275 Question

[Joey Ferreyra]

Yes, it will have similar content as well as other avionics news. The webinars are interactive so if you have a question, it will be addressed by an expert answering them live.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Hi everyone, my name is Joey, I'm on the Garmin Aviation Team. I thought I could help address this and any other questions that come up. Unfortunately, the GI 275 does not display True Airspeed at this time. Displaying TAS, OAT and wind direction/speed when is on our list. As someone mentioned, the GTP 59 OAT probe is not required with installation of a GI 275 AI/ADI if the turn rate coordinator is maintained.

I would invite anyone interested to attend our webinars we're hosting this week in lieu of giving them in person at the Spring shows originally scheduled for this week. We will presenting on the GI 275 on Tuesday, March 31 and Thursday, April 3. While I await my link sharing privileges, you can find them by Googling "Garmin Aviation Webinars". Thank you all for your interest and either being a Garmin customer or considering becoming one!

Hey Joey,

Welcome aboard! Hope you can stick around here. Sucks to have to go to BeechTalk to find Trey every time there's a tough Garmin question.

 

[WannFly]

https://www.garmin.com/us/products/intheair/seminars

 

[Jdm]

Unable to get pics of the 275’s other pages yesterday. The airplane was already stacked in the hanger when I tried. Didn’t realize the other pages are totally inhibited when there’s no gps signal. I’ll have to get em next time it’s in action.

 

[Timothy Burchett]

Yes, it will have similar content as well as other avionics news. The webinars are interactive so if you have a question, it will be addressed by an expert answering them live.

Thanks for the tip on the Webinars. I listened to one today and got my questions answered.

 

[Jdm]

Here’s pics of all the GI275MFD pages that we have activated. Well, almost all of them. The 275’s internal GPS (VFR direct-to) pg. is only shown when there’s failure of the primary GPS source, which is the 650Xi in this case.
All shots were taken wile on the ground.
Pg 1: This is the default page. It always appears upon pwr up. We have this programmed as the CDI page. The CDI is coupled to to nav#1 and nav #2. I took a few pics as I toggled through a few CDI source options.
Pg 2: Moving Map page. It can be pinched in/out to zoom. Also, one finger can drag the map in any direction. Touching on a specific symbol displays extra info.
Pg 3: HSI. Looks super useful but I haven’t had a chance for to explore it.
Pg 4: MFD DATA pg.
Pg 5: Traffic
Pg 6: Weather
Pg 7: Terrain
Pg 8: Internal direct-to GPS w/database Requires failure of primary GPS to appear.

 

[Daniel Jeffrey Kennison]

I'm having two GI275 installed right now. I wan to pose a couple questions, is Garmin listening?
1. Does the USB data cord include some power output. I want to directly connect an apple lightning cable and feed it into my airgizmo panel mount for the ipad running garmin pilot. Will it charge the ipad?
2. For the list of compatible auto-pilots will there be any future enhancements to support altitude-preselect? The G500 supports that feature for KAP150 and some other 3rd party auto-pilots. It would be great to have that in the GI275.

 

[WannFly]

I'm having two GI275 installed right now. I wan to pose a couple questions, is Garmin listening?
1. Does the USB data cord include some power output. I want to directly connect an apple lightning cable and feed it into my airgizmo panel mount for the ipad running garmin pilot. Will it charge the ipad?
2. For the list of compatible auto-pilots will there be any future enhancements to support altitude-preselect? The G500 supports that feature for KAP150 and some other 3rd party auto-pilots. It would be great to have that in the GI275.

If memory serves, in the webinar, garmin said it’s only for data transfer. The best way unless someone else who has used it comments is to send an email to aviation.support@garmin.com and ask them. They are pretty fast to respond .

For the second, down the line , i hope. Right now 275 doesn’t even have support for their own GFC 500 AP that is coming later in the year

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I've got two GI275 ADAHRS sitting in the avionics shop for a couple weeks. I'm waiting to get a slot to go in to get them installed, they'll be the first installs that this shop does of them, but the quarantines have been messing things up.

Assuming (@flyingcheesehead ) doesn't steal them first.

Well, I didn't steal yours, but I still somehow got mine installed first! You're gonna love 'em. I kinda wish we had sprung for two... But I'm hoping our next piece of glass is much bigger.

Technically yes, however I'm just removing the vacuum system and leaving the remainder of my instruments. Two are required to remove the vacuum system.

Nope... We got one GI 275, and had the vacuum system removed. The trick is that our spinny-gyro HSI was already electrically powered, only the AI was on vacuum. The STC states what instruments you need to have as backup, and does not specify required power sources. With one GI 275, you need to have either a second gyro horizon, or you need to have altimeter, airspeed, and turn coordinator. Since we kept the latter three, we're good.

 

[Mtns2Skies]

Well, I didn't steal yours, but I still somehow got mine installed first! You're gonna love 'em. I kinda wish we had sprung for two... But I'm hoping our next piece of glass is much bigger.

Nope... We got one GI 275, and had the vacuum system removed. The trick is that our spinny-gyro HSI was already electrically powered, only the AI was on vacuum. The STC states what instruments you need to have as backup, and does not specify required power sources. With one GI 275, you need to have either a second gyro horizon, or you need to have altimeter, airspeed, and turn coordinator. Since we kept the latter three, we're good.

Pics or it didn't happen.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Pics or it didn't happen.

 

[Mtns2Skies]

No Synthetic vision? Peasant

 

[smv]

No Synthetic vision? Peasant

Not much terrain around there, but....

 

[Bill]

Kent, can a human over 40yrs old actually read all of that nice information on the AI? It looks good here in a blown up picture, and good on the big pictures on the Garmin web site, but real world?

 

[flyingcheesehead]

No Synthetic vision? Peasant

Guilty as charged.

We would have gotten it, but the synthetic vision also requires installation of a magnetometer. Had we done dual 275s right off the bat we'd have gotten it.

Kent, can a human over 40yrs old actually read all of that nice information on the AI? It looks good here in a blown up picture, and good on the big pictures on the Garmin web site, but real world?

Well, I am a human over 40 years old (46). I've never had glasses, but recently that's more because I'm stubbornly resisting them than because I don't need them. There are things on my phone I have some trouble with occasionally.

That said, I had no problem at all reading the Garmin display. It's very bright, high resolution, and the presentation of information is very well done.

 

[asicer]

That said, I had no problem at all reading the Garmin display. It's very bright, high resolution, and the presentation of information is very well done.

Do you or @Mtns2Skies have the install manual? I'm wondering if you can have a GPS on one ARINC429 input, a VHF#1 on another A429 input and a VHF#2 on an analog (composite) input. Or A429 + RS232(i.e. SL30) + analog.

Also, I haven't seen any HSI pictures showing a GPS course plus VHF bearing pointers. Have you? (I assume it's possible)

 

[smv]

Also, I haven't seen any HSI pictures showing a GPS course plus VHF bearing pointers. Have you? (I assume it's possible)

We have an Aspen PFD connected to a 375 and a KX155. While we cannot do ILS approaches, the HSI on the Aspen will show GPS course and two bearing pointers.

 

[smv]

Here is an example... Green arrow is GPS CDI and blue arrow is VOR bearing pointer.

A second bearing pointer is available but we have only the two inputs so one of them would be redundant.

 

[Ed Haywood]

Well, I am a human over 40 years old (46). I've never had glasses, but recently that's more because I'm stubbornly resisting them than because I don't need them. There are things on my phone I have some trouble with occasionally.

46 is right about the time it hits you. Wish to hell someone had told me to get my IR before that happened.

 

[asicer]

We have an Aspen PFD connected to a 375 and a KX155. While we cannot do ILS approaches, the HSI on the Aspen will show GPS course and two bearing pointers.

A G5 and G1000 will do the same. However, I'm specifically asking about the GI275, not Aspen or G5.

 

[smv]

A G5 and G1000 will do the same. However, I'm specifically asking about the GI275, not Aspen or G5.

Perhaps you are, but that was not very clear when you asked:

Also, I haven't seen any HSI pictures showing a GPS course plus VHF bearing pointers. Have you? (I assume it's possible)

 

[asicer]

Perhaps you are, but that was not very clear when you asked:

It helps if you read all 4 sentences instead of just the 1.

 

[smv]

It helps if you read all 4 sentences instead of just the 1.

Heh... Mea culpa. I got hung up on the "any HSI" part.

 

[Ryan F.]

Kent, can a human over 40yrs old actually read all of that nice information on the AI? It looks good here in a blown up picture, and good on the big pictures on the Garmin web site, but real world?

I fit the category of humans you describe. I still have uncorrected 20/20 vision but it's not what it used to be. I did a final eval of this just recently when I was considering a GI275 to replace my old legacy ADI that drives my autopilot. (I have a G5 ADI also.) I had seen a demo unit but I hadn't seen one in a panel... as soon as I did my opinion changed.

Honestly, it's an amazing device with very high resolution on its screen... but the screen is legitimately tiny. Using the GI 275 as a mini PFD was not going to be possible and for that matter a dual GI275 installation for ADI/HSI was just too small to deal with also.

It's a great concept but they're too small for use beyond basic functionality in my opinion. Basic ADI presentation would be fine, basic HSI too... airspeed/altitude tapes were completely unusable. GPS map function ("MFD") also unusable.

I'm still interested in possible getting one down the line if I can mix it into my dual G5 installation as a "3rd" ADI which can drive my autopilot, but that's most of its utility to me.

 

[AlphaMike]

46 is right about the time it hits you. Wish to hell someone had told me to get my IR before that happened.

I'm 47 and just finished my IFR. I had to upgrade my iPad from the mini to the big one! lol can’t keep taking off the foggles and putting on the readers or zooming in just to look at the charts. The full-size iPad made a huge difference for me!

 

[Ed Haywood]

I'm 47 and just finished my IFR. I had to upgrade my iPad from the mini to the big one! lol can’t keep taking off the foggles and putting on the readers or zooming in just to look at the charts. The full-size iPad made a huge difference for me!

For day VFR, Tifosi golf sunglasses are magic. They have reader insets on the bottom of the lens. With your head held normally, the top of the reader lens coincides with the glare shield, so instruments are magnified but your outside view is not.

 

[AlphaMike]

For day VFR, Tifosi golf sunglasses are magic. They have reader insets on the bottom of the lens. With your head held normally, the top of the reader lens coincides with the glare shield, so instruments are magnified but your outside view is not.

View attachment 89809

I’ll have to check those out, thanks! But those won’t help you when the CFII or DPE makes you put on the foggles. That was my issue. Bigger iPad or a magnifying glass was about my only options. LOL

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Do you or @Mtns2Skies have the install manual? I'm wondering if you can have a GPS on one ARINC429 input, a VHF#1 on another A429 input and a VHF#2 on an analog (composite) input. Or A429 + RS232(i.e. SL30) + analog.

Also, I haven't seen any HSI pictures showing a GPS course plus VHF bearing pointers. Have you? (I assume it's possible)

Yes, it's possible. This is from page 48 of the user manual (Rev. A):



The install manual says that Nav 1 and Nav 2 can be connected via HSDB (which would be Garmin-only, of course), RS-232, or ARINC 429. However, it notes that each GI 275 only supports one *analog* nav interface, and the AI version does not allow any analog navs to be connected. Not an issue if you have one nav that's digital, but otherwise you would need at least three GI 275s to get both analog navs connected.

I fit the category of humans you describe. I still have uncorrected 20/20 vision but it's not what it used to be. I did a final eval of this just recently when I was considering a GI275 to replace my old legacy ADI that drives my autopilot. (I have a G5 ADI also.) I had seen a demo unit but I hadn't seen one in a panel... as soon as I did my opinion changed.

Honestly, it's an amazing device with very high resolution on its screen... but the screen is legitimately tiny. Using the GI 275 as a mini PFD was not going to be possible and for that matter a dual GI275 installation for ADI/HSI was just too small to deal with also.

It's a great concept but they're too small for use beyond basic functionality in my opinion. Basic ADI presentation would be fine, basic HSI too... airspeed/altitude tapes were completely unusable. GPS map function ("MFD") also unusable.

Interesting that you say that, we went and looked at a GI 275 right next to a G5 before we agreed to the install, but came to the opposite conclusion and in actual use of the GI 275, with eyesight that I consider to be marginal (like I said, I have trouble reading small type on my phone), I have no trouble reading every single display and every character of text/numbers on the GI 275 with no effort. The display as a whole is fairly small, but the presentation is excellent.

 

[Ryan F.]

It's subjective in some respects... I've been flying behind glass, even "old" glass for most of my career. For a two-tube EFIS system (dating myself there) I expect to see two square or rectangular instruments with some space/real estate around them to draw my eye.

I looked at a GI 275 in ADI mode only. After looking at a couple of videos on YouTube I found it interesting to note that the display "appears" to be bigger than what I saw in person. I think the argument could be made that the HSI presentation is actually larger than the G5 HSI, although ironically to my eyes it still "feels" smaller.

I still find the G5 ADI much easier to interpret than the GI 275 ADI. For me the latter would just be a no-go for use as a PFD... it's a heck of a neat device but "feels" very constraining with a ton of information in a tiny space. The dimensions of the G5 are quite a bit more appealing possibly because of what seems like "wasted" space in the corners of the display... I like that space. I like the information that is placed there, not on the primary portion of the display itself. This is true for the G5 ADI but also the HSI. When Collins upgraded the ProLine 21 to "Advanced" one of the enhancements was increasing the width of the PFD presentation to the edges of the display, leaving a large amount of empty space there. The extra screen real estate wasn't used for extra information (well, there's a little extra, but not much.) That's desirable for a PFD.

But I'll go back to what I said at the start -- these presentations are different and there's a certain amount of subjectivity involved in finding what you like. If it was possible to pair up a G5 ADI and a GI 275 HSI I'd consider that, but it's not, so until I can add a GI 275 ADI as my "backup" ADI to drive my autopilot, it'll just be G5s for me.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

It's subjective in some respects...

Without a doubt.

I looked at a GI 275 in ADI mode only. After looking at a couple of videos on YouTube I found it interesting to note that the display "appears" to be bigger than what I saw in person.

One of the things that I think makes the GI 275 look smaller in some cases is the adapter plate that is used to fit it where a KI-256 (AI) or KI-525 (HSI) used to be:

This is ours, and I think is a good comparison with the KI-525 still in place. Our KI-256 attitude indicator had a similar bezel arrangement, and so while the instrument itself is smaller, the presentation is slightly larger.

I get what you're saying about the "crunched" AI when the tapes are in place, but you don't have to have the full PFD setup - The AI can display in three modes: Basic (with no tapes), 3-in-1 with airspeed and altitude tapes, and 4-in-1 with the track/heading tape at the bottom:

I think the argument could be made that the HSI presentation is actually larger than the G5 HSI, although ironically to my eyes it still "feels" smaller.

Looks like there's no argument, it is definitely larger:

I know what you're saying, though, and certainly having the corners available for additional information is nice. I'm still going back and forth about whether I like the touchscreen or not. I'm not a big fan of the menu structure on the G5 that's necessary to do almost anything, but I'm also not sure I like touching the screen to select something to change either!

If it was possible to pair up a G5 ADI and a GI 275 HSI I'd consider that, but it's not, so until I can add a GI 275 ADI as my "backup" ADI to drive my autopilot, it'll just be G5s for me.

Yeah, it's too bad you can't mix and match. We might have sprung for the HSI right away if it could have been a G5, but I understand why Garmin doesn't make them work with each other. It'd make BOTH units more expensive, and we'd likely have needed to spend just as much to do that (if it were possible) as we would have in reality with just getting a pair of GI 275s anyway.

Really, it's hard to go wrong either way. If it weren't for a working autopilot that we've already put a ton of money into (before the GFC 500 came out), we'd have gone with the G5s when they first became available. The GI 275 will allow us to keep the autopilot going for the foreseeable future while allowing us to ditch the vacuum system, and should we replace the autopilot it'll drive the GFC 500.

In your case - Well, I'm not sure that Garmin will ever bother certifying the GFC 500 (or 600) for the Twinkie. So an eventual GI 275 will at least allow you to keep the current autopilot going without a vacuum system.

 

[Ed Haywood]

The GI 275 HSI can display on moving map with traffic and weather. It also has built-in GPS with direct-to capability. Wonder how much harder it would be to build in full GPS Navigator capability?

 

[Ryan F.]

Looks like there's no argument, it is definitely larger:

Right, I'm saying there is an argument. That image comparison is not really apples to apples -- that's Garmin demonstrating a willingness to move a lot of information inside the compass rose. "Fair" or not? Subjective... also not a slam dunk about presentation size. Is the compass rose definitively larger? Of course, but it's sharing real estate with a lot of other data which is no small matter to contend with from my perspective. The most obvious intrusions are the heading indication at the lubber line, the glideslope indicator, and the course/heading indicators, which are located literally on the rose itself. Heck, even the heading bug rides on the rose. Put another way, if we were to count just how much of the compass rose is still visible, the G5's presentation would win easily in terms of "wholeness of display."

I know what you're saying, though, and certainly having the corners available for additional information is nice.

More than nice in my estimation... crucial to a decision on one vs. the other in my case. The clutter factor is simply a different proposition across the two.

To be clear, I'm really not anti-GI275 or pro-G5... and the price difference isn't a game changer for me. But in terms of using these devices as a combined PFD, I can work with the G5s, but the GI 275s are more than I'm willing to put in the center of my scan.

 

[bkspero]

Earlier today I watched a couple of Youtube videos by Austin Pilot about his GI-275 installation. He highlighted another characteristic that, for me, is a show stopper. Switching back and forth between GPSS mode and Heading mode takes 7 steps. 1) Knob push to display Menu1, 2) select Options, 3) select Nav Options, 4) Select GPSS (or Heading), 5) select Back, 6) select Back, 7) select Back.

I wouldn't be comfortable going missed in IMC and have to do all that to switch to heading mode because I get vectors from the controller. I could hand fly the missed (or the approach, I guess), but that's not why I would spend what it would cost to install 2 GI-275s.

The Garmin staffer with whom I spoke during their Virtual Oshkosh program replied to my email and confirmed this behavior. He said that there would be an update next spring which will add an external switch to make this change in one step. In certification months that likely means sometime in the autumn of 2021.

 

[Bill]

More than nice in my estimation... crucial to a decision on one vs. the other in my case. The clutter factor is simply a different proposition across the two.

To be clear, I'm really not anti-GI275 or pro-G5... and the price difference isn't a game changer for me. But in terms of using these devices as a combined PFD, I can work with the G5s, but the GI 275s are more than I'm willing to put in the center of my scan.

I get it, but only the 275 can provide attitude info to our perfectly functional KFC-200, and that is why we're going with the 275's.

 

[Ryan F.]

I get it, but only the 275 can provide attitude info to our perfectly functional KFC-200, and that is why we're going with the 275's.

Understood completely... driving an autopilot is a big deal.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Earlier today I watched a couple of Youtube videos by Austin Pilot about his GI-275 installation. He highlighted another characteristic that, for me, is a show stopper. Switching back and forth between GPSS mode and Heading mode takes 7 steps. 1) Knob push to display Menu1, 2) select Options, 3) select Nav Options, 4) Select GPSS (or Heading), 5) select Back, 6) select Back, 7) select Back.

Those last three can be combined into a single step. You don't have to do Back->Back->Back, you can just hold Back for a second and it backs completely out of the menu.

However... That is one of the two big UI fails of the GI 275, the menu structure is not optimal. A good menu design has the most-used stuff in the main menu, with the most used item of the most used group closest to the "top". Unfortunately, Garmin buried nearly everything you would use on a regular basis in flight under Menu->Options->Nav Options, which is highly suboptimal.

The other big fail is that the outer knob does nothing on the main page. IMO it should cycle between selecting Baro, Altitude, Airspeed, and Heading/Track bugs which would then be adjusted with the inner knob the way they already are. As it is, there's no way to adjust any of those except the baro without touching the screen.

 

[bkspero]

Those last three can be combined into a single step. You don't have to do Back->Back->Back, you can just hold Back for a second and it backs completely out of the menu.

Thanks. Better, but as you wrote, still not good.

 

[Bill]

Those last three can be combined into a single step. You don't have to do Back->Back->Back, you can just hold Back for a second and it backs completely out of the menu.

However... That is one of the two big UI fails of the GI 275, the menu structure is not optimal. A good menu design has the most-used stuff in the main menu, with the most used item of the most used group closest to the "top". Unfortunately, Garmin buried nearly everything you would use on a regular basis in flight under Menu->Options->Nav Options, which is highly suboptimal.

The other big fail is that the outer knob does nothing on the main page. IMO it should cycle between selecting Baro, Altitude, Airspeed, and Heading/Track bugs which would then be adjusted with the inner knob the way they already are. As it is, there's no way to adjust any of those except the baro without touching the screen.

Are the 275's bluetooth or wifi updatable from your phone? If so, with customer feedback, Garmin can improve the interface.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Are the 275's bluetooth or wifi updatable from your phone? If so, with customer feedback, Garmin can improve the interface.

I don't think you can software update from bluetooth, but you can from a USB stick if the shop either leaves a port under the panel for you (mine did), or if you install the GSB 15.

I do recommend the GSB 15, BTW. Much cleaner and more reliable than having a 12V plug to keep your gadgets running, and you can use it to upload and download data (incl. software updates) to/from the GI 275s.

 

[Ryan F.]

I don't think you can software update from bluetooth, but you can from a USB stick if the shop either leaves a port under the panel for you (mine did), or if you install the GSB 15.

I do recommend the GSB 15, BTW. Much cleaner and more reliable than having a 12V plug to keep your gadgets running, and you can use it to upload and download data (incl. software updates) to/from the GI 275s.

Have one of these going in soon... I am looking forward to it.