Getting your Commercial Rating & CFI

labbadabba

labbadabba

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labbadabba
Wrapping my instrument rating and I'm not too far off in terms of my hours in going after my commercial rating. Could I also start working in earnest towards my CFI rating as well or should I focus just on the Commercial first?

Do pilots often try to do both their Commercial and CFI ratings concurrently?
 
It has been a few decades since I got my Commercial and CFI. My recommendation is to get you Commercial first then work on the CFI.

1. You have to have you Commercial to get your CFI.

2. Working on the Commercial you are getting instruction.

3. Working on your CFI you are learning on how to give instruction.
 
In the last few months when I was doing my training - I did commercial and CFI at the same exact time

I didn't officially fly right seat until after I passed my CPL checkride, but I did do a few cross country practice flights from the right seat (with another pilot onboard of course) just to get comfortable.

Once I passed my CPL, I only flew right seat, and 2 weeks later passed my CFI check ride

Keep in mind that CFI training is going to be 85% ground, so there's no rush to practice right seat. The good news is that whatever ground material you study for CFI - it's going to be the same for your commercial. So the commercial oral will be a breeze for you.
 
Focus on mastering everything you need to pass the commercial checkride, or better yet, to make you a good pilot. Once you have the commercial ticket in hand, then dedicate the time necessary to master the FOI material, develop your lesson plans, and ace the CFI checkride.

Don't sweat right seat flying. The transition takes very little time.
 
I completed my CFI training concurrently with instrument and commercial. Prior to starting my instrument/commercial I started studying for CFI. During study I wrote a full syllabus with lesson plans for instrument and commercial. Once finished to my instructors satisfaction we started training. Every morning he would teach me the lesson I wrote. That afternoon I taught him the same lesson. I took my cfi ride about a week after the commercial. Worked out well. I was working as a CFI before the instrument was processed and mailed to me. All done part 61 most ricky tick. When I started the training I already had about 200 hours and most of the commercial requirements met. The dual for instrument and commercial made up the difference for commercial requirements.
 
labbadabba said:
Wrapping my instrument rating and I'm not too far off in terms of my hours in going after my commercial rating. Could I also start working in earnest towards my CFI rating as well or should I focus just on the Commercial first?

Do pilots often try to do both their Commercial and CFI ratings concurrently?
Click to expand...

In a way, but probably not in the way you think. Building blocks.

I just completed my initial CFI so I'll share my thoughts or just amplify some opinions already given...

For background, I went "backward". Commercial Multiengine with a Instrument first, then CFI-ME, and I'll start working on single engine add-ons to both soon. I started at Private Single Engine Instrument. Currently I have MEI that the ink isn't yet dry on it, with no CFI-I, and and Private Instrument privileges in single engine.

CFI Checkride that I passed was literally yesterday. Checkride I failed was because I didn't quite get this concept I'll share below, a month ago.

Plano Pilot said:
It has been a few decades since I got my Commercial and CFI. My recommendation is to get you Commercial first then work on the CFI.

1. You have to have you Commercial to get your CFI.

2. Working on the Commercial you are getting instruction.

3. Working on your CFI you are learning on how to give instruction.
Click to expand...

This. It's two distinct skill sets. You must show "instructional competency" for the CFI. See how often this is repeated in the CFI PTS. The CFI PTS basically says... you must teach everything in the Private ACS and Commerical PTS -- on the ground and while flying, and while flying you must do it to Commercial PTS standards, just because that's the level you are certified to -- and do it while teaching in the cockpit.

Flying to Commercial standards is a sub-task (and a big one) inside of the whole of "CFI", which is testing if you can TEACH someone from walking in off the street all the way to that same standard that you can accomplish.

Harold Rutila said:
Focus on mastering everything you need to pass the commercial checkride, or better yet, to make you a good pilot. Once you have the commercial ticket in hand, then dedicate the time necessary to master the FOI material, develop your lesson plans, and ace the CFI checkride.

Don't sweat right seat flying. The transition takes very little time.
Click to expand...

This also. My CFI takes people quickly through this process all of the time. Focus on truly being a Commerical Pilot first. Mindset. Attitude. Skill set.

Next, start thinking about how to teach that mindset, attitude, and skill set. To someone who just walked up and has no idea their car even has an oil cap. (Remember you need to teach systems along with regulations, aerodynamics, weather, basic flying skills, more advanced flying skills, emergency procedures, navigation, decision making and risk management, etc etc etc.)

Everything -- every single thing -- in the ACS or PTS that you just demonstrated on your Commercial checkride... you have to teach to me. Mr. What's An Oil Cap? I've never been to an airport before other than as a Commerical airline passenger and I've never been close enough to the outside of an airplane to touch one.

THAT's the difference between the Commerical and CFI checkride.

In fact, a better way to look at the CFI checkride is that it's a huge ALL day lesson to one crazy student who wants to learn a little bit of everything both on the ground and in the aircraft in a single day. You'll start teaching at 9:00 and be done around 17:00 if you're lucky, but you won't stop teaching until the examiner either says "Not working for me" or "Congratulations, you figured out how to get Mr. Oil Cap enough information into his head to do the task assigned and demonstrated that you could teach other Mr. or Ms. Oil Caps" -- all of those things you already knew going into your Commercial checkride.

Agree on the seat change: My CFI does exactly one "let's see how they do" flight in the Seminole and says there's almost always exactly two groups of people. Those who make the spatial adjustment instantly and the other seat doesn't bother them much at all. Those folk need one flight with pattern work and some landings after confidence builders like steep turns and doing the flying with their hands reversed on the controls to make the seat change, and the other group needs about three flights. It's not a hard transition for the majority of folks. I fell into the one-flight group and needed to move my sense of where the centerline was and also get used to flying with my right hand and operation of everything else with my left. I was comfortable enough with it in a a single 2 hour flight that I never had any other problems other than the occasional reach with the wrong hand.

The seat move is the least of your concerns. Learning to teach is.

Make sense?
 
labbadabba said:
Wow, that was awesome. Thanks! Kinda actually pumped about it now. : )
Click to expand...

Figured I'd help save you the initial bust. Like I did. Hahaha. I was NOT ready to teach that day. Deer in the headlights.

And after I busted and talked to some folks, they ALL said that's the absolute most common reason for the initial CFI bust.

I had accidentally fooled my own CFI (or maybe he knew I needed to bust and knock my head straight -- we will never know, but I don't assume he set me up for failure in any way) into thinking I was teaching, when I was just regurgitating information.

I survived about three and a half hours of oral the first time out with the examiner looking more and more uncomfortable as the time went on.

It's good to note that your CFI and examiner both WANT you to pass. They're rooting for you. The examiner probably even showed up with the paperwork completed and ready to circle a spot that says "pass" and doesn't want to circle the "fail" on their sheet they're using to make sure they've done their part.

But if you can't teach... they'll let you get as far as you can, but they're going to circle the "fail" and you get to do the walk of shame to the computer to put it in IACRA -- or at least it feels that way.

That said, if you do bust, realize it's a hard ride and lots and lots bust it the first time. You can "dig a hole" pretty easily on a topic you're weak in. And everyone is weak in something.

Another tip. You're allowed to take a break at ANY time. If something is going sideways -- you're the instructor in this checkride/scenario. Tell your "student" you want to take a break and regroup on what you're teaching, grab a water, walk out in the hall, and settle nerves and THINK.

Just like you'd do if you were having a bad hair day with a real student. You have SOME control over this process because you're the teacher.

Obviously you can't pull this card out and use it for every topic presented but you CAN pause and say you'd like to look an item up before launching into your instruction, because the examiner knows in the real world you would have prepped for today's lesson with your student ahead of time and the checkride is like ten or fifteen mini-lessons back to back and a few longer ones in the oral... don't fall into the trap of the examiner saying "okay that leads to this next thing you can teach me..." and thinking it's all one big lesson -- a real student lesson won't be that long or in-depth... tell the examiner you recognize the topic change and you'll gather some information and maybe a visual aid or two, take a deep breath, and start on the next thing. Maybe digging out some of your lesson plan notes for that topic and reviewing your own words to yourself and the student before launching into a spiel with the white board and markers. (Hell, I even had some drawings on paper that their only purpose wasn't to show them to the student, they were in the box to remind ME how to draw the picture on the whiteboard! Even down to use of color -- draw the prop handle with the blue dry erase marker... draw the RPM locks in the prop hub in red...)

I say that... but I had a hard time doing itand slowing myself down. Real bad. My examiner even joked that he has had CFI candidates who were nervous with adrenaline take a break and step out in the hall and do jumping jacks to take the edge off.

You feel like you're "on the clock" and maybe even thinking "this guy isn't paying me to dig through my box of reference material!" if you're really "in character" but that's a significant difference between the checkride and the real world.

Anyway -- you get the idea. Slow down, teach, be prepared, be willing to pause and look up some items and then back into "character" and teach some more.

It's a long assed day. It really is. I won't lie. And after you finish all that teaching in the oral then you have to reset your brain, with some fatigue creeping in, and go teach in the airplane.

You'll be wiped. And yet totally wide awake and excited if the examiner says "congratulations!" at the end. Focus on the teaching.

Here's a phrase my examiner said...

"You're here to teach flight. Some people teach golf. Ever hear of anyone dying from bad golf instruction? Ever hear of anyone dying from bad flight instruction? This is serious business. Teach."
 
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