Getting "Trapped" By AME's Refusing Fast Track

[mryan75]

And so on…YES or NO. Simple objective criteria.

Yep, “and so on”. And by “and so on” you mean such simple, objective criteria as “This condition has unresolved sequelae or continued symptoms severe enough to
interfere with safety related duties”.

Yeah. A childish understanding of what this entails.

 

[UTLonghorn_1979]

You make assumptions about what people think with no basis in fact. Your ignorance and naïveté is glaring.

Oh look, you can cut and paste “naïveté."

 

[mryan75]

The whole reason the person got to this point is because of a diagnosis of "ANXIETY, DEPRESSION, AND RELATED CONDITIONS.” So, yes, it is a simple question of whether they have been diagnosed with one of the listed, or unlisted “additional" diagnoses.

Fail:

“Does the individual have any additional mental health diagnosis or symptoms such as
bipolar disorder, psychosis, neuro-developmental disorder, autism, personality disorder, somatoform disorder, impulse control disorders, substance misuse or
disorder, eating disorder, or any diagnosis NOT listed as acceptable?”

You either don’t understand what you read or are just lying. Do you honestly think people won’t notice? It’s written right there. Like you said, simple. People here are not as stupid as you clearly think we are.

 

[mryan75]

No, it doesn’t. The full text…again:

1. Does the individual have any additional mental health diagnosis or symptoms such as bipolar disorder, psychosis, neuro-developmental disorder, autism, personality disorder, somatoform disorder, impulse control disorders, substance misuse or disorder, eating disorder, or any diagnosis NOT listed as acceptable?

It’s asking the AME if the applicant has a history of other recorded diagnoses or symptoms. Not to diagnose anything. It’s a YES OR NO question.

Have fun.

View attachment 133988

So it doesn’t ask for additional symptoms? I would leave too if I were you.

 

[UTLonghorn_1979]

This really is the counter argument of a child to what Bruce wrote.

“…or symptoms…”

If you think it’s “simple” for a doctor to make this determination in a 30-minute general exam of someone they’ve never met before, I genuinely don’t know what to say.

Wow, just wow. You literally don’t understand that this question isn’t asking the AME to diagnose any condition or symptoms, do you? It’s asking if the applicant has ever been diagnosed/had symptoms reported by the applicant’s treating physician.

 

[mryan75]

Oh look, you can cut and paste “naïveté."

Can the mods just do us all a favor here? Seriously.

 

[UTLonghorn_1979]

Fail:

“Does the individual have any additional mental health diagnosis or symptoms such as
bipolar disorder, psychosis, neuro-developmental disorder, autism, personality disorder, somatoform disorder, impulse control disorders, substance misuse or
disorder, eating disorder, or any diagnosis NOT listed as acceptable?”

You either don’t understand what you read or are just lying. Do you honestly think people won’t notice? It’s written right there. Like you said, simple. People here are not as stupid as you clearly think we are.

Keep going dude.

 

[mryan75]

Wow, just wow. You literally don’t understand that this question isn’t asking the AME to diagnose any condition or symptoms, do you? It’s asking if the applicant has ever been diagnosed/had symptoms reported by the applicant’s treating physician.

Interesting, as I don’t see “treating physician” anywhere in that question.

 

[UTLonghorn_1979]

Can the mods just do us all a favor here? Seriously.

Call in big brother to fight your battles, cool.

 

[mryan75]

Keep going dude.

I will. I know you’re getting frustrated. It must be pretty embarrassing for you when you say something isn’t there and it is, and to have it shown to you repeatedly. It must be humiliating for someone as defensive and insecure as you.

 

[UTLonghorn_1979]

Interesting, as I don’t see “treating physician” anywhere in that question.

AME Instructions: Address each of the following items in your in-office exam and history review.

 

[UTLonghorn_1979]

I will. I know you’re getting frustrated. It must be pretty embarrassing for you when you say something isn’t there and it is, and to have it shown to you repeatedly. It must be humiliating for someone as defensive and insecure as you.

 

[jbarrass]

So you’re saying the form asks an eye doctor (for example) if they see mental disorders? And that observation is a medical basis?

It's a bit worse than that. The AME is required to use the definitions per DSM IV even though it was replaced over a decade ago. The real doctors are using DSM V which has notably different definitions, particularly as it pertains to mental concerns.

 

[Lindberg]

You seem to be confusing binary decisions with easy or simple decisions. Do you have a substance abuse problem? That's a yes/no question. And yet, it's not black and white, is it?

Your example is a subjective question. Unlike the questions:

1) Does the individual have any additional mental health diagnosis or symptoms such as . . . substance misuse or disorder . . . ?

 

[Lindberg]

The whole reason the person got to this point is because of a diagnosis of "ANXIETY, DEPRESSION, AND RELATED CONDITIONS.” So, yes, it is a simple question of whether they have been diagnosed with one of the listed, or unlisted “additional" diagnoses. This comes from the same persons(s) that diagnosed them with the original condition. The only response is YES OR NO. SIMPLE.

And yet the reports submitted to the FAA revealed the person also has a substance abuse disorder.

 

[UTLonghorn_1979]

Lindberg said:
You seem to be confusing binary decisions with easy or simple decisions. Do you have a substance abuse problem? That's a yes/no question. And yet, it's not black and white, is it?


In the eyes of the FAA, it is black and white. Nice try though.

 

[mryan75]

AME Instructions: Address each of the following items in your in-office exam and history review.

Wow, I almost missed where it said “in your in-office exam”. But just at the last second I saw it right in the middle of the sentence and realized that you’re wrong. Again.

 

[UTLonghorn_1979]

Wow, I almost missed where it said “in your in-office exam”. But just at the last second I saw it right in the middle of the sentence and realized that you’re wrong. Again.

You really are special. Moving on.

 

[Lindberg]

Lindberg said:
You seem to be confusing binary decisions with easy or simple decisions. Do you have a substance abuse problem? That's a yes/no question. And yet, it's not black and white, is it?


In the eyes of the FAA, it is black and white. Nice try though.

Ok then, do you have a substance abuse problem?

 

[UTLonghorn_1979]

Ok then, do you have a substance abuse problem?

Yes, diagnosed. So that’s a YES on the form.

Wow, that was hard, huh?

 

[Palmpilot]

...The FAA moves at a glacial pace, and we'd still be waiting for Basic Med had not Congress shoved it down their collective throat.

The way I heard it, the FAA had something similar ready to go, but DOT stonewalled it.

 

[Lindberg]

Yes, diagnosed. So that’s a YES on the form.

Wow, that was hard, huh?

And is that what you put on the form for your exam that was deferred?

 

[MauleSkinner]

So you’re saying the form asks an eye doctor (for example) if they see mental disorders? And that observation is a medical basis?

It says to evaluate these things during the exam, so if an eye doctor (for example) was administering a flight physical, it certainly appears that way.

 

[MauleSkinner]

Oh look, you can cut and paste “naïveté."

I can even type it myself. Aren’t you impressed?

 

[nauga]

Thread locked. Might be temporary, might be permanent.