Getting some tailwheel

Mtns2Skies said:
I've got 90% tailwheel time in my logbook, and taildraggers still humble me... that's why I like flying them so much!
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Tailwheel time is at 31% and climbing for me. 252 hours and 448 mostly passable landings. Eventually I’ll figure those things out and manage a good landing. If that ever happens, then I’ll start working on getting in and out of the plane gracefully.
 
Yea it's why I like the old vintage stuff so much. You can watch someone do a bunch of wiz-bang aerobatics in an Extra NG but for me it can't match a guy doing an aileron roll off the deck in a Stearman. You can see the amount of skill it takes to get that old thing to do that with grace, because it clearly doesn't want to.
 
Silvaire said:
Yea it's why I like the old vintage stuff so much. You can watch someone do a bunch of wiz-bang aerobatics in an Extra NG but for me it can't match a guy doing an aileron roll off the deck in a Stearman. You can see the amount of skill it takes to get that old thing to do that with grace, because it clearly doesn't want to.
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I get that everyone has different tastes and that some of the carbon monoplane acts are boring and monotonous but a few of those guys at the top level display extremely high skill and precision. I also loved watching John Mohr fly his Stearman on the deck, but the actual maneuvers he was doing in his routine were just very basic maneuvers which plenty of people could do equally well. Rolling a Stearman the way he did really isn't that hard, but where John's experience and ability came in was in how consistently he could safely fly such a low routine in all conditions for decades. It was a great contrast to the endless tumbling acts.
 
Whitney said:
I'm not sure of the exact numbers of hours in each type, but probably around 200 skis, 1500 tricycle, 2000 floats, and over 4000 dragger, still haven't mastered any of them every landing.
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Impressive. I wish I had that much float time.
 
Re the short field/3 point takeoffs, I never did 3 point in the cub. Well, maybe a couple of times. I learned actual short field/obstructed as having the tail up just a little bit, that this was a lower drag profile overall. I think the other part of that is that with the tail up just a little bit, it'll tell you when it really wants to fly, and that's pretty much more or less Vx. I took my first checkride in one, and the joke from the DPE was that a cub had all of the same V speeds as any other plane, but they were all the same, 60 mph.

Re your noise abatement, I get following the procedure, but those planes really are ice makers, so going from cruise speed, which is pattern speed, to idle for landing seems like a good plan if you can swing it. I don't want to go against what your CFI is having you do, but of all the planes around to fly long shallow approaches, a cub is maybe not the best. I'm not saying that because of the engine stopping randomly, I'm saying it because partial throttle/low power is, in my opinion, an area where they're more likely to make ice. If you're in Arizona and the humidity is 0.1%, ignore what I've said....here in the NE, we have all four seasons and they're all wet.
 
RoscoeT said:
...I also loved watching John Mohr fly his Stearman on the deck..
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Yea I saw him at Oshkosh years ago, that was part of the inspiration for my post but there's also Younkin in his D18 and many others. They may be benign aerobatic routines but, like you said, everyone has their own taste. Also I didn't mean to say that the extreme guys didn't have skill, they certainly do.
 
Albany Tom said:
Re your noise abatement
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The noise abatement is on the upwind and when to turn crosswind (2nm out). I chatted with the CFI/owner today and he said in the cub just pull it back to 2100 or 2000 and cut the corner at pattern altitude no biggie. Apparently it's hard to even hear the cub at that power setting.

I went up again today for some dual time. We flew down to a private neighborhood community (LL22) for some grass ops, back down to Clow for some wheelies in a direct crosswind, and then home. All the landings were fine except the landing back home (attempted wheel landing). I think I'm overthinking the wheel landing bit. It's rather amusing that I started flying tailwheel doing all wheel landings due to gusty crosswinds we faced early in training - yet they now elude me so much.

Oh well - onward!

Weather is supposed to be nice over the long weekend - might do a bit of a solo XC outside of the area. We'll see.

TT: 1.3 (7.9 total)
Landings: 5 (36 total)
 
I didn't end up going up again over memorial day weekend. Winds were something like 20G30.

I did go up again today, solo, and stayed in the pattern as we had soaking rains last night and storms still to the south. Winds were 340 @ 9 (realistically it was probably more like 7G10, especially at 100AGL), so my favorite right crosswind. Today I had my first big bounce! After two dreamy wheel landings, I came in with too much energy and it yielded a vigorous bounce. About half way back down on my way to the 2nd touch, I gave it full Cub power and went around. I did touch a second time but was already committed around. From there I started on 3 pointers, of which they were all marginal at best. A couple plopped - flared too high, too early. The rest with simply too much energy. The ones with too much energy also had the unfortunate consequence of providing roll input as I was adding crosswind ailerons (that was my first clue). The wing was still flying, although the wheels were on the ground!

I'm back in it again tomorrow. If it dries out, I'll leave the metro area for grassier pastures!

TT: 1.1 (9.0 total)
Landings: 8+1 touch & go ;) (45 total)
 
kaiser said:
The wing was still flying, although the wheels were on the ground!
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This is another one of the great things you learn more pointedly in a taildragger than a trike. Good work listening to what the airplane’s telling you.
 
Back in the Cub again for some before-work shenanigans. At this point, I'm starting to focus on mission oriented preparation. I'd like to do some bigger trips in the Cub and exploring life from "500' away from any person, vessel, vehicle, structure, or other property as applicable". Something like 6Y9, the Lake Michigan loop, or even Gastons/N Arkansas!

Today was my first solo XC! I flew 35nm to Dacy (0C0) a nice small airport with 3 intersecting grass runways. Even though the plane doesn't have a transponder, I plugged into my Stratus for GPS and some traffic awareness. As I flew out I did see a target on FF that ended up over taking me. Having flashbacks of when the Lance almost ran me over, I turned away and descended until I caught them to my 5 o'clock. I let him pass and pointed it back at the airport. I got out there and landed 27. A decent 3 pointer masked by how bumpy the runway was! I taxi'd back and switched to Runway 32. It was just as rough but ended up with a nice 3pt and wheel landing each, after which I headed back to base. Unfortunately my landing back on the hard concrete, a 3 pointer, wasn't my best. I'm still flaring high in this airplane.

TT: 1.5 (10.5 total)
Landings: 4 (49 total)
 
jsstevens said:
@kaiser I appreciate the ongoing writeups! Tail wheel is on my radar and this is helpful.
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Happy to do so! I'm going back to your posts as well. Multi add-on, though always on the list, has been violently shoved right under my nose. I may have no choice but to start that, as there is now a decent plane nearby that I may access - even post cert.
 
Here is where you talk about how you're about to fly a 170! :) I told you tailwheel is addicting.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
Here is where you talk about how you're about to fly a 170! :) I told you tailwheel is addicting.
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That's the plan!

As a baseline, I've spent 20.3 hours and 82 landings in the Clipped Wing Cub with 90hp. I will try to outline my journey transitioning. I'm expecting challenges with sight picture and speed. In the CWC, you can't see what's in front of you until the tail flies and you have to fly everything "fast" (i.e. 10mph faster than the standard cub in all phases of T/O & Landing).

The 170 I'm stepping into is an original 1948 with the O-300 and flaps! Rumor has it that when you sit on the left side, you can even see in front of you :eek2:
 
kaiser said:
Haha. The 170 is the biggest tailwheel I have access to that I can rent & fly solo.

I still want to get into the Stearman this year - different mission though.
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Stearmans are fun but you have to slip all the landings. Can't see a thing.
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
Stearmans are fun but you have to slip all the landings. Can't see a thing.
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It sounds similar to the Cub I fly, where I'm also in the back seat. Approaches steep enough so you can see the runway as long as possible, then flare and use your peripheral vision to keep it straight. In this cub, if you have to pull idle or slip, you either did something very wrong or you have a very very tall obstacle. It falls out of the sky nicely at 1000-1200 rpm.

Here's a decent example. The camera is mounted a little higher and forward (and left) of where my eyes would be (in other words, my view is a little worse than what the camera sees).
 
kaiser said:
It sounds similar to the Cub I fly, where I'm also in the back seat. Approaches steep enough so you can see the runway as long as possible, then flare and use your peripheral vision to keep it straight. In this cub, if you have to pull idle or slip, you either did something very wrong or you have a very very tall obstacle. It falls out of the sky nicely at 1000-1200 rpm.

Here's a decent example. The camera is mounted a little higher and forward (and left) of where my eyes would be (in other words, my view is a little worse than what the camera sees).
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My very first approach on landing the Stearman went like this:

Tim: keep it straight
Me: I can't see!
Tim: you're a little left
Me: I can't see!!!
Tim: a little low
Me: your airplane

That didn't go well. We changed the approach and it went much better. :)
 
My first lesson was in a J3 when I was 15. The instructor was, let's just call it portly. I felt like I was in a Link Trainer with all of the instruments blocked off.
 
kaiser said:
In this cub, if you have to pull idle or slip, you either did something very wrong or you have a very very tall obstacle. It falls out of the sky nicely at 1000-1200 rpm.
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When I fly a Cub, if I have to move the throttle off the idle stop after passing the numbers on downwind, I did something wrong. I expect to slip to hit my intended touchdown point (and to be able to see the runway).
 
Terry M - 3CK (Chicago) said:
@kaiser - turns out . . . I meant Stearman, not Waco.

I totally chickened out there and never went back! Scared the $h!t out of me.

I'll work back up to it.
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It’s definitely a process! My first flight I think I scrubbed all the tread right off! I can’t believe how I kept it on the runway even!

It’s like eating an elephant - just take it one bite at a time.
 
So coming fresh from my flight tonight in the 170. What a ride! Compared to the Clipped Wing Cub, the 170 is the lovable lumbering oaf. Everything is just a bit mushy, and even though the gear is the Pponk upgrade, taking offs and landings feel like they're done from a trampoline. That being said, I simply can't figure out which plane I love more!

I put on 1.3 hr and 4 landings.

Overall impressions, it's like flying the cub but with more ... "jello". The longer wing and spring gear makes everything a bit mushier. Even in cruise I could not quickly find its happy place. At one point I was even inducing a bit of a dutch roll. The sight picture is completely nuts. Taking off, one flies the tail, and then barely rotates and allows the plane to take off on it's own. Don't even bother looking at the cowling as it will not help you determine whether you're at a positive or negative angle of attack. In cruise in level flight, I felt like the cowl was pointed at trees 1nm ahead of me. Very strange feeling. That being said, I think this sight picture makes it almost easier to land. Landings 1, 3, and 4 were really good. Landing 2 was a 3 pointer that was simply too fast and I started oscillating/bouncing. With the help of the CFI, a simple full aft elevator planted the tail nicely and we settled. The 3rd landing was a good 3 pointer and the 4th was a good wheel landing.

The first landing is definitely a story. So here I am in a brand new to me plane and my first landing is Midway (KMDW)!
(if you turn the volume up at around 2:20, you hear me "confirm that I was sole manipulator" haha)

If the weather is good, I'll bring it to 6Y9.
 
Seems I should still keep journaling this as things keep getting interesting. So yesterday I reached 100 landings in a tailwheel! (I’m at about 25 tailwheel hours)

So it’s fitting that on landing 96 I got to experience a really ugly bounce. I was practicing wheel landings in the [springy] 170 where the initial touch of the mains tend to skip the plane a touch. Once the skip happens, you can work quickly to stick the wheels and lower the AoA. On this landing it was a big skip which put us to too much altitude and not enough airspeed. On the second time down the skip converted to a decent bounce (think negative dynamic stability) and since it got worse, I executed a go around. Also, let me tell you that a go around in a stock 170 is a decent handful. Full flaps, trim full aft (up elevator), and I have to say the yoke forces on this are stronger than most other airplanes I fly when trim is in a similar out of spec condition.

I had two other go arounds yesterday: one where I caught rotor wash from a departing helicopter enough to unsettle me, and another where I caught some bad air with not the right airspeed. I’m still loving that plane and can’t wait to take it on a long XC next weekend.
 
kaiser said:
So coming fresh from my flight tonight in the 170. What a ride! Compared to the Clipped Wing Cub, the 170 is the lovable lumbering oaf. Everything is just a bit mushy, and even though the gear is the Pponk upgrade, taking offs and landings feel like they're done from a trampoline. That being said, I simply can't figure out which plane I love more!

I put on 1.3 hr and 4 landings.

Overall impressions, it's like flying the cub but with more ... "jello". The longer wing and spring gear makes everything a bit mushier. Even in cruise I could not quickly find its happy place. At one point I was even inducing a bit of a dutch roll. The sight picture is completely nuts. Taking off, one flies the tail, and then barely rotates and allows the plane to take off on it's own. Don't even bother looking at the cowling as it will not help you determine whether you're at a positive or negative angle of attack. In cruise in level flight, I felt like the cowl was pointed at trees 1nm ahead of me. Very strange feeling. That being said, I think this sight picture makes it almost easier to land. Landings 1, 3, and 4 were really good. Landing 2 was a 3 pointer that was simply too fast and I started oscillating/bouncing. With the help of the CFI, a simple full aft elevator planted the tail nicely and we settled. The 3rd landing was a good 3 pointer and the 4th was a good wheel landing.

The first landing is definitely a story. So here I am in a brand new to me plane and my first landing is Midway (KMDW)!
(if you turn the volume up at around 2:20, you hear me "confirm that I was sole manipulator" haha)

If the weather is good, I'll bring it to 6Y9.
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Does Midway allow full stop taxi backs?
 
Ed Haywood said:
How many on grass?
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Probably 2/3. All of my dual with the exception of maybe 3 landings was on paved surfaces. All of my solo with the exception of maybe 10-15 landings has been on grass.
 
kaiser said:
Probably 2/3. All of my dual with the exception of maybe 3 landings was on paved surfaces. All of my solo with the exception of maybe 10-15 landings has been on grass.
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Cool. Grass is the natural habitat of taildraggers.
 
So it took until today (34.1 hrs, 107 landings) to have my first really exciting landing. Landing runway 3, winds were between 050 and 090 at 10 kts, so not too bad. On the first part of the rollout I introduced right aileron a little early (and maybe caught a gust?), right wing dips and plane veers left. I recovered by unrolling most of my inputs and not fighting too hard against the plane. I did apply brakes and full elevator and got the tail to lift some. In the end, I essentially just rolled off onto the grass some 5 feet or so and didn’t hit anything. It was mowed nicely so I just taxied around the signs/lights and headed to fuel.

The light sport that watched me ended up departing 14 :dunno:

edit: I should mention that I absolutely nailed my landing back home - best tail wheel landing yet even!

C0A730BD-6275-4AEF-859D-5CEC9BA44359.jpeg

GoPros weren’t running, but here’s a picture of the spot on my back taxi to depart
1CE99057-32D2-49B2-924F-3D4A089C1682.jpeg
 
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