Getting Pattern Direction in flight

SixPapaCharlie

SixPapaCharlie

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So lets say on my checkride, he asks me to divert to KXYZ,
Do I pull out the AFD for that airport inflight and get the pattern direction or is there a quicker / simpler solution?
 
Much simpler. That AFD print is tiiiny! Not my favorite thing to read in the airplane.

Get out your sectional and look at the print underneath each airport. Lets say the runways are 18/36 and 9/27. 27 has right traffic. You'll see "RP 27" meaning right hand pattern. The absence indicates left traffic for the other runways.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
So lets say on my checkride, he asks me to divert to KXYZ,
Do I pull out the AFD for that airport inflight and get the pattern direction or is there a quicker / simpler solution?
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Look at the airport on your chart, if there is a runway with Right traffic it will be listed, e.g. RP 15 which means right traffic for runway 15.

Steve
 
Use the I pad with Foreflight or go back to the paper chart as stated earlier.
 
As far as the airport chart, this is for an as of yet unknown airport. I don't know where he is going to have me divert to. so not sure easiest way to get runway numbers, etc...

On my check ride, I can use fore flight?
 
cool, so at KGDJ, I see RP14 which I never noticed before. Thanks for that tip.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
cool, so at KGDJ, I see RP14 which I never noticed before. Thanks for that tip.
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Spend some time with the VFR Chart Legend....either on a real chart or in the ForeFlight documents. There is a lot of info in there.
 
I printed up a document with all the different possibilities for diversion within a 40 mile radius and had the info for each airport. Freq. Runway Length, Pattern Alt, Traffic Direction etc. etc. When I was told to divert, I had all the info I needed.
 
Immelman said:
Much simpler. That AFD print is tiiiny! Not my favorite thing to read in the airplane.

Get out your sectional and look at the print underneath each airport. Lets say the runways are 18/36 and 9/27. 27 has right traffic. You'll see "RP 27" meaning right hand pattern. The absence indicates left traffic for the other runways.
Click to expand...

Papyrus strikes again! :D
 
The sectional "RP" is good, you can also fly over the field and look at the windsock, there normally is a white circle around it with 90 degree lines which will indicate the traffic direction.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
As far as the airport chart, this is for an as of yet unknown airport. I don't know where he is going to have me divert to. so not sure easiest way to get runway numbers, etc...

On my check ride, I can use fore flight?
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I would think most examiners would allow you to use Foreflight, but be ready for it to suddenly overheat or suffer a dead battery just when you need it the most.

The runway symbol on the chart should give you a marginal idea of runway heading, listening to CTAF for other traffic in the pattern is a good idea, and will give you at least a runway number.

Bottom line is to get there, get prepared to make a safe pattern entry and landing. If all else fails, overfly the field above TPA and read the numbers directly off the runway surface.

Above all else explain to the examiner exactly what you are doing and why. If the AFD is handy and you can find the airport and get the info, have at it, if every gadget in the plane is mysteriously dead, and the wind took all your paper out the window 2 minutes ago, get there and check the numbers, windsock, etc. via the overflight method.

A diversion is all about figuring out what to do when things go wrong, so think about what you need to do and how you're going to do it. If you need to get creative, have a good reason for it, do it safely and be creative if that's what it takes. You can never over communicate your intentions to the examiner, so talk him or her through your entire process to get on the ground. If you get it done safely you pass if there's a better way that you overlooked, he'll tell you after you've safely diverted, and you'll have learned something.

Steve
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
So lets say on my checkride, he asks me to divert to KXYZ,
Do I pull out the AFD for that airport inflight and get the pattern direction or is there a quicker / simpler solution?
Click to expand...

"RP" is printed on the sectional for those runways that have right traffic.

TPA is another issue. That's only in the A/FD (and the various tablet programs, but you may have to hunt for it), and it's not always 1000 AGL.

If the diversion airport is towered, you don't care about the pattern direction. You do what the tower tells you to do.
 
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Immelman said:
Much simpler. That AFD print is tiiiny! Not my favorite thing to read in the airplane.

Get out your sectional and look at the print underneath each airport. Lets say the runways are 18/36 and 9/27. 27 has right traffic. You'll see "RP 27" meaning right hand pattern. The absence indicates left traffic for the other runways.
Click to expand...

Also be aware of a rarely seen asterisk (*) with the runway number. If you look up Horizon TX (T27) it will say 8* (without the RP). They do glider operations to the north and instead of RP 8, they have that designator instead ... which basically means you have to call ahead or check AFD to figure out what will be different.
 
My DPE let me use ForeFlight. RP's will show up on the sectional though and I think DPE's are OK with 800-1000' AGL for pattern altitude, at least mine was.
 
Be sure you occasionally look out the window, dont get fixed when looking at the print. Look quickly at chart, and then glance up and around, say "checking for traffic"...go back to chart, repeat. The diversion will probably be a fairly common airport along your route...not always, but generally.
 
It has been many moons since I took a checkride but I would do on a checkride just what I would do in real life after getting the rating. That is look at the 496 I have for runway and comm information. If he fails that, I would look at the Asus TF700 on my right knee running anywhere map for that information. Even in event of complete electrical failure it still has a charged battery. If both of those have failed, it is time to declare an emergency and it doesn't matter what traffic pattern usually happens to be.
 
MAKG1 said:
"RP" is printed on the sectional for those runways that have right traffic.

TPA is another issue. That's only in the A/FD (and the various tablet programs, but you may have to hunt for it), and it's not always 1000 AGL.

If the diversion airport is towered, you don't care about the pattern direction. You do what the tower tells you to do.
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The pattern altitude isn't regulatory but the pattern direction is. And if there is a right hand pattern for any runway there's supposed to be a segmented circle indicating that. As long as clouds and SUA permit, overflying the airport is a pretty good idea when landing at one for the first time, especially if you hadn't planned to go there in the first place. That said, with tools like foreflight (and perhaps some day in the not too distant future the ability to view aerial photos of the airport) you might be able to get what you need from your tablet.
 
FORANE said:
It has been many moons since I took a checkride but I would do on a checkride just what I would do in real life after getting the rating. That is look at the 496 I have for runway and comm information. If he fails that, I would look at the Asus TF700 on my right knee running anywhere map for that information. Even in event of complete electrical failure it still has a charged battery. If both of those have failed, it is time to declare an emergency and it doesn't matter what traffic pattern usually happens to be.
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You would declare an emergency because your gadgets fail?

You're kidding, right?

You must be able to navigate your aircraft without those. Period.

You'll really be screwed when GPS itself fails.

Read this NOTAM and tell us if you really think your approach is a good idea:

!GPS 10/005 (KZOA A0463/13) ZOA NAV GPS IS UNRELIABLE AND MAY BE UNAVAILABLE WITHIN A RADIUS OF 396NM AND CENTERED AT N393835W1174702 OR THE LOCATION ALSO KNOWN AS THE MINA, NV VOR (MVA) 010 RADIAL AT 66NM AT FL400 AND ABOVE; DECREASING IN AREA WITH A DECREASE IN ALTITUDE TO A RADIUS OF 341NM AT FL250; A RADIUS OF 263NM AT 10,000FT MSL; A RADIUS OF 264NM AT 4,000FT AGL; AND A RADIUS OF 246NM AT 50FT AGL. 1310040300-1310040630
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Note that the affected area is large chunks of several Western states.

It amazes me how some people think complete dependence on a single system is acceptable. A GPS failure is not an emergency unless you're really not ready to be a pilot.
 
SixPapaCharlie: It could be that you never actually go to the diversion airport.

On my PPL ride, as soon as I hit my first checkpoint on our "planned" XC from Denton (KDTO) to Abilene, TX, the DPE said, "It looks like everything west and south of here is bad weather and I just heard DTO Tower close the runway. We need to divert. Where are you going to go and let's get there. How much time to get there, and how much fuel are we going to use up? Do we have enough?"

So I made a turn toward Sherman and KGYI, and once on the general course, started working the diversion problem using papyrus, plotter, and E6B. Every 10-15 seconds of eyes down time, I'd come back up to make sure we're still straight and level, and haven't climbed or descended.

Once I was established on course, and answered "we would be there in 20 minutes, burn 3 gallons of fuel, and yes we have enough to get there," the DPE said well done and we began the next step in his PTS checklist.


Each DPE has his/her way of doing things. So check with CFI's and other students who have used that individual and they can give you tips on how the various situations are handled.
 
NineThreeKilo said:
The sectional "RP" is good, you can also fly over the field and look at the windsock, there normally is a white circle around it with 90 degree lines which will indicate the traffic direction.
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If there is a windsock. If it's 87Y they just let you guess.
 
If there is a tower, contact them and ask them. On any given day they can be doing anything they want to get their own practice in, or to maintain separation.
A couple of weeks ago DXR had left and right pattern traffic all flying into rw 08. After an hour or so, they shifted everyone in the pattern 90 degrees and had us left and right pattern into rw 35. It was cool in a weird kind of way.
 
doesn't matter- you'll never get to the diversion airport . . .and until you are close enough to know the wind direction, if he asks you what pattern direction the runway is - you can ask him which one. He then throws it back at you with ' which one do you think?" Who knows, lets see when we get there. Then you'll get there -

So its good to know RP XX!
 
"Any traffic please advise...er, by the way...left or right traffic?"
 
Why is it that some have more than one?

While fast aircraft may not be able to maneuver in the small patterns we use, having multiple altitudes to scan makes it harder to spot traffic. Especially, ultralights are dinky targets, and are REALLY hard to spot when at a lower altitude. I'm sure our spam cans are similar for turbines.

That 1000 AGL can get you in trouble. KOAK has no published TPA for 15/33. 1000 AGL is higher than all the other patterns and puts you uncomfortably close to the Coliseum (TFR). Fortunately, that runway is very seldom used (normal is 27L/R for GA, 29 for airliners).
 
FORANE said:
in event of complete electrical failure
Click to expand...



MAKG1 said:
You would declare an emergency because your gadgets fail?

You're kidding, right?

You must be able to navigate your aircraft without those. Period.

You'll really be screwed when GPS itself fails.

Read this NOTAM and tell us if you really think your approach is a good idea:



Note that the affected area is large chunks of several Western states.

It amazes me how some people think complete dependence on a single system is acceptable. A GPS failure is not an emergency unless you're really not ready to be a pilot.
Click to expand...
I believe you missed a few key words in my post.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
On my check ride, I can use fore flight?
Click to expand...
AFS-800 says yes, and they set policy for practical tests. Only problem is some DPE's don't understand that, so you could get in a situation where the DPE's POI must be consulted. Also, make sure you have something to back up your iPad -- another electronic device, paper chart/AFD, etc, in case the iPad battery runs out (real or simulated). I know people who have ForeFlight on both their iPad and iPhone, and the iPhone backs up the iPad. That is acceptable to the FAA, according to the Inspectors I've asked.
 
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That confused me too. If he's got the battery, it's not a complete electrical failure, right?
 
Ron Levy said:
Don't bet on it. I know examiners who divert you to the airport where they want to do the takeoffs and landings.
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That's what mine did. We departed Teterboro for Wilkes-Barre/Scranton, after the maneuvers(maybe before, I forgot), he diverted me to Caldwell and had me do the takeoffs and landings.

Oh by the way, that was 14 years ago today!:wink2:
 
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MAKG1 said:
A complete electrical failure is also not an emergency unless it's in IMC, and you might have trouble declaring by shouting as loud as you can...
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I think you should review the definition of the term "Emergency". In pretty much any plane I know with an electrical system, I believe a complete electrical failure would cause me to be "concerned about safety and of requiring timely but not immediate assistance", and that meets the official definition of an "emergency".

Unless, of course, you don't think the possibility of an impending electrical fire in flight would concern you.

Further, there are plenty of ways to communicate this to the folks on the ground besides the aircraft's radios, and even if there weren't, it would still be an emergency allowing you to deviate per 14 CFR 91.3(b) from the Part 91 flight rules to the extent necessary to deal with it.
 
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comanchepilot said:
doesn't matter- you'll never get to the diversion airport . . .
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I did a landing at my diversion airport. My examiner told me the runway length, width and the pattern direction - the rest was up to me.
 
Badger said:
I did a landing at my diversion airport. My examiner told me the runway length, width and the pattern direction - the rest was up to me.
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You had a very generous examiner -- all the ones I know would make you look that up yourself.
 
Ron Levy said:
You had a very generous examiner -- all the ones I know would make you look that up yourself.
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I agree. I think it had a little to do with the fact the diversion was shortly after take off. I don't think I even finished climb out. We were still within class C, less than 5 miles from departure and he gave me a diversion to a small airport under the outer shelf.

I learned so much that day. He said something like: I know you can follow dots on a chart, I want to know you can fly an airplane. We spent the most time doing emergency procedures, stalls, hood, nav to VOR, etc.
 
I remember my checkride, I had a little handheld aviation GPS (Garmin 96C). When the DPE asked my ground speed, I read it off as 118 kts. He said "Good use of available cockpit resources". Next he asked how long to the next checkpoint, I said "Well, I could calculate exact, but at 118 kts, that's close enough to 2 nm per minute that the difference is less than the error in my position." and divided the distance by 2.

So, instead of going heads down to calculate the exact time, I gave a very close estimate by doing the math in my head...got another "attaboy" for using judgement.
 
My deviation was - "Look, a line of t-storms just popped up in front of us. Take us to Kxxx." I estimated the new heading, made the turn, wrote down the time, figured the distance and time - all with a watch, compass, whiz-wheel, and papyrus (and I didn't need the E6B ). The DPE then said, "Let's go have some fun!"
 
MAKG1 said:
You would declare an emergency because your gadgets fail?

You're kidding, right?.
Click to expand...

I know this was intended for GPS only, but for others out there:

Last year on a night flight (short XC) I got a faint "wiff" of smoke in the cockpit. As I shed all non-essential electrical, my ALT enunciator lit up for a split second followed by a much larger amount of smoke entering the cockpit (I was now 10 miles to landing and over an interstate highway). I was able to get off a single "AC in distress, ALT failure, smoke in the cockpit 10 north inbound -as two CBP helos were practicing auto-rotations over the approach threshold). Within seconds of that ALT light and short radio transmit, my battery overloaded and all electrical was gone for good. The bolts holding the front and rear case of the ALT sheared, the ALT rotated on its bracket and the pulley froze (causing the smoke from the belt). My handheld was on the rear floor in my flight bag, but the headset adapter would have to be fished out (I didn't). On final, the helos didn't move and I had navaigate around them and land mid-field.

Lessons Learned:

1. Keep the headset adapter ON the handheld on night flights, not just in the bag close by.
2. Glad I had several of the hat lights available. Have an Iphone APP for lighting as well as a backup to the backups.
3. I had heard millions of times you'll have about 30-60 minutes once the ALT fails before the battery follows suit. Now am aware that the ALT may take it out simultaneously ... the battery didn't explode, but it was definitely fried.
4. Moderate smoke in the cockpit at night is NOT fun.
5. Glad I have a Halon fire extinguisher within reach if necessary.

EDIT: Probably should be #1 above
6. After an event like this, when you get home .... Your family is going to smell the event well before you get a chance to shower. If the spouse is skittish about flying, get cleaned up BEFORE heading home at a friends.
 
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