Getting back on the horse

[Mtns2Skies]

Well it's now been 3 weeks since I took my mock checkride for my IR... and I did really, really badly. My DG was failed (for real) and I only have one NAV in my plane, fake DPE failed my VFR GPS (which doubles as my charts), and ATC was incredibly busy and not able to accomodate, they dumped me out well past the IAF on two approaches and the fake DPE said to salvage it rather than go missed. Then I was exhausted from being SO busy for an hour and a half of doing poor, busy busy approach and intercepting intersections with one VOR that I just couldn't get an obscure hold right at all.

My intent isn't to make excuses or really even rehash the mock checkride, I just flew badly, and I wasn't prepared to that level of flying with a different person than my instructor. I didn't feel ready going into the mock ride and maybe it was a self fulfilling prophecy that I would do poorly without the confidence required.

I haven't flown since that day 3 weeks ago, my DG is now hopefully working, and nothing is stopping me, but I'm just not excited. I feel so discouraged, the training isn't fun, it's hard and it sucks, but I've come so far. I have another lesson this Saturday, and I need to do solo practice beforehand for sure, but again, I just don't want to.

I don't want to hear anything about how I need a new CFII, it's hard enough to find instructors with enough tailwheel experience to train in the 180 and she's a great instructor and is a master CFII. The problem is with me, I've flown for 600 hours of backcountry tailwheel VFR flying (with a VFR Commercial Cert). I have a very hard time getting motivated for IR and even more so after I embarrassed myself so badly infront of another instructor, it just doesn't feel worth it to me anymore.

Any advice about getting back into it and being excited? It just feels like a slog now. I don't want to give up, but I feel like I'm so close to just calling it quits and being resigned to flying VFR.

 

[Michael A]

I get that trust me. I hit the same feeing through my instrument training for various reasons, but trust me its worth it in the end. I stand by the fact that IFR is my favorite type of flying and it really is worth the challenge. It is not only a huge rating that makes flying places much more practical (as well as fun), but it really makes you a better and more confident pilot too. Keep pushing through you are close!

 

[benyflyguy]

Sound like you had everything thrown at you except for a real structural failure.
My experience with mock ride was not about how I succeeded, but how I failed. I don’t think there was any way I was going to walk away from that saying “nailed it”. Before the lesson I thought that. But my CFI told me afterward no matter how good I did the plan was to trip me up, increase workload, get me behind. And it worked. Got me to realize better that I’m getting behind and how to stay ahead. It ended up marking the real ride that much easier-almost Boring.
Finding intersections with one nav is a lot of work that will get you behind fast. I’d go up and just fly for fun and enjoyment.
If you didn’t auger in with all that workload I’d say you did ok.

 

[Michael A]

Also on a slightly unrelated note, is there a reason your cfii needs tailwheel time if you already have your tailwheel endorsment?

 

[steingar]

I don't log in for much, but this needs the attention of he who is the Steingar. I honestly know the feeling, not from flying (I ALWAYS want to go) but from my Origami. I blow it sometimes (not often mind you), indeed a messed up a couple models that used one particular technique I don't like. The paper I wasted was rather irreplaceable, too. I bailed on folding for a short time, and then started folding...other models! Some of them are seriously cool, too.

Find a nice day and fly. Go do some backcountry tailwheel flying, I know there are some killer strips in your nick of the woods. Have fun, and don't miss Oshkosh. You'll get back to the IR when you're ready. All the mock ride proved was that you weren't really ready for the real one. Sounds like a darn good way to find that out.

 

[Vance Breese]

In my experience any goal worthy or great effort will have a point in the adventure where I question beginning the adventure and if achieving the goal is worth the effort and expenditure of resources.

When I reach that point I realize I have chosen my challenge well and it is at the edge of my capability and resources.

In my experience once I have accomplished that goal I go looking for a more challenging one because that is what I live for.

In my experience more practice will make it take less effort when things aren’t working out.

In my opinion you will be a better pilot for the effort.

 

[lancie00]

Sound like you had everything thrown at you except for a real structural failure.
My experience with mock ride was not about how I succeeded, but how I failed. I don’t think there was any way I was going to walk away from that saying “nailed it”. Before the lesson I thought that. But my CFI told me afterward no matter how good I did the plan was to trip me up, increase workload, get me behind. And it worked. Got me to realize better that I’m getting behind and how to stay ahead. It ended up marking the real ride that much easier-almost Boring.
Finding intersections with one nav is a lot of work that will get you behind fast. I’d go up and just fly for fun and enjoyment.
If you didn’t auger in with all that workload I’d say you did ok.

This is exactly what I thought. I would bet that your "mock" check ride was designed to be MUCH harder that an actual. Then when the real one comes, you won't have a problem. Trust your training and your instructor and whatever you do, DON'T GIVE UP!!! YOU WILL BE DISAPPOINTED FOREVER THAT YOU WERE THIS CLOSE AND QUIT!!!!! It will never get easier than right now.

 

[PaulS]

I think this is why many people don't finish their IFR, it's not easy. Then you have the Aces, who finish in record time, forget about them, unless you need a question answered. But at the end of the day, it isn't easy.

You are looking back, stop it! Look forward. This applies to flying IFR. You will make mistakes, and a DPE will trip you up. I think mock check rides are tougher than the real thing, keep that in mind. Think about it, the purpose for the mock ride is to expose your weaknesses so you can get them fixed. Fix it and move on. If you make a mistake flying, fix it, then SHAKE IT OFF, there is no feeling sorry for yourself while flying, especially IFR. Take your time setting up for an approach, ask for delay vectors, don't start until you are ready, don't let anyone rush you. Don't give a rat's ass if ATC is busy, not your problem, ever. If they give you a practice approach, then they are not that busy.

I had a plateau that was long when I was training for my instrument rating. At the end of the day I decided that I would not let it defeat me. Talk it over with your instructor, figure out a plan, then execute.

An actual failed DG would stop the check ride, so real life you would have had a continuance. I doubt the DPE will fail your only GPS, but you should know how to deal with it. The best way I think is to have Foreflight with a current subscription. It gives you back up charts plus a gps that while not legal for IFR, will help tremendously with SA while you fly on back up instruments, have it and use it. I did fly with 3 other instructors through my training and it was great, they had different tricks that helped, one got me over the hump. Plus it got rid of "stage fright". Fly again with the mock dpe when you've worked through the kinks.

ATC is ATC, you need to get out of them what you need. If where they put you doesn't work, go missed and make them re sequence you, they'll get it right. You should be flying with your instructor twice a week IMO. Keep studying, make sure you debrief with your instructor after a lesson. Chair fly, practice and believe you will get there, because you will. DON'T GIVE UP!! Don't ever forget you are PIC, act like one, it's empowering, trust me.

 

[lancie00]

Well it's now been 3 weeks since I took my mock checkride for my IR... and I did really, really badly. My DG was failed (for real) and I only have one NAV in my plane, fake DPE failed my GPS (which doubles as my charts), and ATC was incredibly busy and not able to accomodate, they dumped me out well past the IAF on two approaches and the fake DPE said to salvage it rather than go missed.

This is one other thing I thought about. It doesn't matter who's in the right seat. If you're not comfortable and wanted to go missed, go missed. YOU are pilot in command and a DPE/mock DPE does NOT have the authority to tell you to salvage an approach. They will NEVER fail you for going missed, requesting time vectors or going around. That shows YOU are in control and can make good decisions. Good luck!!!

 

[455 Bravo Uniform]

Why are you doing it? What was your goal? In other words, hit reset and remind yourself why you started in the first place.

Maybe a break is good, maybe it’s not, depending on the length of the break. Cancel your next lesson and just go fly VFR for fun. Maybe even with your instructor, no IFR work allowed.

Sounds like you’re close. As said above, you are supposed to get challenged. And you got challenged. Break, and do it again.

And swallow any pride you have. If you’re not being humbled, maybe you’re not learning. And if you are being humbled, then appreciate it for what it is - you are growing.

 

[Lndwarrior]

This sounds a lot like my actual IR checkride. I screwed up pretty much everything. Like you, it was very busy ATC wise with zero breaks to even breath.

It was so bad the DPE actually took the yoke from me to show me how to fly a straight course in a cross-wind at altitude!

And for some reason Ill never understand - he passed me. I still think he was wrong for passing me that day.

In the end i only exercised my IFR rating once - and nearly killed myself in the process. Kind of further reinforced the thought that i should not have been given my ticket that day.

And, yes, I do understand this is on me and not the DPE or my CFI.

In the end I simply decided IFR was not for me. However it did make me a better and safer pilot.

 

[PaulS]

This sounds a lot like my actual IR checkride. I screwed up pretty much everything. Like you, it was very busy ATC wise with zero breaks to even breath.

It was so bad the DPE actually took the yoke from me to show me how to fly a straight course in a cross-wind at altitude!

And for some reason Ill never understand - he passed me. I still think he was wrong for passing me that day.

In the end i only exercised my IFR rating once - and nearly killed myself in the process. Kind of further reinforced the thought that i should not have been given my ticket that day.

And, yes, I do understand this is on me and not the DPE or my CFI.

In the end I simply decided IFR was not for me. However it did make me a better and safer pilot.

That's a sad story Gary, for how long did you train?

 

[Sinistar]

Never done IR and 1/3 of your hours. What I read sounds like you need a really good positive aviation experience to reset that last flight. I think what @455 Bravo Uniform said seems along the right lines. So mix the two. Grab your wife or mistress or best flying buddy and take the 180 on an overnight trip (camping / hotel whatever). When flying is feeling boring, taking a passenger who's experiencing this the first time or doing a trip is like a 100% reset. You mileage may vary. Oh yeah, maybe on this short trip you will experience a wx delay that your IR and training would have allowed you through (reinforce the IR goal along the way).

Or go get drunk with your buddies

 

[brcase]

This is exactly what I thought. I would bet that your "mock" check ride was designed to be MUCH harder that an actual. Then when the real one comes, you won't have a problem. Trust your training and your instructor and whatever you do, DON'T GIVE UP!!! YOU WILL BE DISAPPOINTED FOREVER THAT YOU WERE THIS CLOSE AND QUIT!!!!! It will never get easier than right now.

Agree, Mock checkride are usually harder the actually checkride because we are preparing you for everything that might happen on the check ride. The actually check ride will like have significantly less challenges.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL

 

[hindsight2020]

I don't have a TW endorsement and I have given IPCs in tailwheel aircraft. Besides, I don't need no stinkin' endorsement; 91.3(b) is all this homey needs to get my @ss back to the parking lot if Captain Foggles to my left decides to croak mid-sortie and stiff me outta my fee.

 

[Lndwarrior]

That's a sad story Gary, for how long did you train?

Year and a half about.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

If my experience is any guide, a horribly botched mock checkride means you're just about ready for the real checkride!

Well, I managed to botch that one too. It was at MSN, last approach of the ride, ILS 36. ATC said "Nxxxx, 3 miles from OZMIX, fly heading 330, maintain 2700 until established, cleared ILS 36." Just about then, the DPE fails the vacuum instruments and #1 nav. I was so focused on the "maintain 2700 until established" and resetting my brain to the Localizer minimums, that as soon as I was established, I started to descend to the LOC mins.

About 400 feet later... DPE: "Where's OZMIX?" Me: "F&*#(@)!*($@!&_%#@&^" DPE: "Too bad, up until that point you flew the entire ride to ATP standards." That did not make me feel better. After about 2 years and 100 hours of IFR training, I almost gave up that day.

Luckily, my CFII talked me out of it, took me up, shot an approach, signed me off again, and I passed the next day. And I tell ya what - I've never busted an altitude since then, so I'm really glad I had that hard lesson.

In any case - DO NOT GIVE UP. The IR makes your pilot certificate (and your airplane) worth a lot more. You won't have to cancel your camping trip (or leave early, or get stuck) for a stupid overcast layer. You can go flying on days that are terrible on the ground and beautiful up in the air - I flew yesterday morning, and it was OVC002 and 1 1/2 SM BR -DZ, gusty winds on the ground and moderate turbulence down low. At 4,000 feet I had a perfect, crystal clear, azure blue sky with a white puffy carpet below and air as smooth as glass.

I have seen so many cool sights and gotten to do so many cool things with the IR, so I can't say it strongly enough: DO NOT GIVE UP NOW. If you need me to fly over and beat it into your head, I'd be happy to.

In any case, I would recommend you just get out with the plane and fly purely for fun. Do some wingovers, check out expensive houses from the air, find a rural grass runway and terrorize the wildlife, or whatever else makes you grin in your left seat again. Don't even think about instruments, or practicing.

Talk with your CFII on Saturday and share your frustrations before your lesson. And don't expect much after being down for that long and stewing about it. You'll be a little rusty, and that's OK. Knock off the rust, and then just make the next lesson better. It'll be done before you know it.

IFR training isn't particularly fun... But where the rating will take you sure is. Like any long-term training, there will be plateaus and setbacks. Get that "reset" from a purely fun flight, and then knock it out. And maybe someday we can "race" to JVL in IMC.

 

[Pugs]

IFR training isn't particularly fun... But where the rating will take you sure is. Like any long-term training, there will be plateaus and setbacks. Get that "reset" from a purely fun flight, and then knock it out. And maybe someday we can "race" to JVL in IMC.

Good advice. I'll be taking it Saturday and visiting some of the neat little PA strips I like. I crunched my instrument into the last 5 months and passed the checkride 16 May. Guess what? It's hard. I gooned the ILS on my first checkride on 6 May (exceeded 2/3 lateral deflection) but the rest went well. Flew with my instructor, reflew the ILS 16 May and done. All of this aviation business is a series of climbs, plateaus and descents and setbacks are to be expected, especially for those of us that have full or more time jobs, spouses and other things that need attention. It's how we deal with those setbacks that sets us apart.

I'm seeing some REALLY tough scenarios played out here. Perhaps I'm lucky that the DPE I had really wanted to see good headwork, acceptable skills that meet the standards and someone who wants to be in constant learning mode. Read and understand the FAA ACS. That's what's graded to pass/fail. The rest is just "stuff" that you can work on.

Really looking forward to using the IFR and headed KGAI to KEYE for a trip next week (with a stop at Sporty's in Batavia on the way out for a break) and plan on filing IFR for it even though the weather looks decent.

 

[Caramon13]

Instrument flying can be hard. It's good you have someone you can work with that you can trust and rely on. It took me about 6 different instructors to get through mine. Agree with @flyingcheesehead . Sometimes it helps to take a mental break and just let loose for a while. Training can wind you up and instrument training is definitely the worst at that. Maybe while you are out "terrorizing wildlife on grass fields" as cheesehead put it, incorporate some part of that instrument training into the mix. Fly an approach to a grass field with a cow on it and go missed, because...cow happens.

I'm instrument rated but not current. It's hard to maintain currency here in FL where I live because it's either CAVU or thunderstorms. There's a few brief windows of actual conditions that you CAN fly through, but it's either early morning (before 6 AM) or some really rare winter day. I used my currency for real a couple times, most memorably was a trip I took flying my family up to NC over the holidays. Could not have made that VFR. That's the exact situation where instrument paid off for me. Saved 16 hours of driving (round trip), used my ticket and enjoyed the crap out of it.

The ticket is worth it and the training will definitely make you safer in the air, even if you decide you don't want to sit for the checkride.

 

[Everskyward]

If you're not comfortable and wanted to go missed, go missed.

This is something I was told. If you are not properly set up and unsure of where you are, it's better to go missed. If you are doing a training flight, there is nothing wrong with trying to salvage the approach if you want to experiment, but I wouldn't do it on a checkride. The DPE is also looking for good judgment. Maybe the CFI was trying to see if you *could* salvage it. Also, you would not be expected to fly the whole checkride with a failed DG. Flying with only one nav is challenging too.

As far as what to do now, I would go out do a fun flight, then maybe try a few lower key lessons in what you and your CFI feel are your weaknesses.

Good Luck!