Get Your Props Dynamically Balanced!

Ted

The pilot formerly known as Twin Engine Ted
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I've been a fan of dynamic prop balancing since I'd first heard about it some years ago, but I never actually had gone out and done it before for various reasons. On the Aztec, my mechanics discouraged it because they figured that any prop shop would try to red tag the props (even though they were within limits per Hartzell, they had some dings) and I didn't know anyone who would do it. Then it was time for the Aztec to get gone, and I didn't see much of a point in doing it on the 310, knowing that it had the impending double engine overhaul. Then the engines were overhauled (with balanced rotating assemblies), and I wanted to put a good 50 hours on them at least before doing a dynamic prop balance, but I still wasn't sure who to have do the work. I only like to let people I trust touch the airplane, for obvious reasons.

As luck would have it, our own flyingmoose and VanDy of Buckeye Aviation (www.buckeye-aviation.com) decided to start offering dynamic prop balance services, so I jumped at the opportunity to get this work done on the 310.

The experience is pretty painless, but on a twin it obviously takes twice as long. We ended up splitting it up into two late afternoons because that's what fit my schedule. Although I would suggest allowing a full morning or afternoon per engine.

The summary is that the right engine started out at 0.5 IPS and got down to*0.1 IPS. The left engine started out at 0.65 IPS and we had down to an incredible 0.04 IPS, but then when the weights got permanently mounted ended up at 0.175 IPS (below 0.2 is considered "good", 0.1 or below is exclelent). We would have worked on it a bit more, but ran out of daylight (my fault for picking a late start time), so we'll plan on seeing if we can tweak it a bit further at a later point. In any event, the vibration levels are about 80% lower than they were.

I was somewhat wondering how noticeable the difference would be, having never done it before. When you're doing the vibration survey, you really can't tell the difference. You're only running the engine up to around 2000ish RPM, and the prop wash ends up shaking the plane around a bit. When I put the levers forward for takeoff power, I almost thought something was wrong. It was quiet and smooth like the turboprops I used to fly. Leveling off at cruise (a whopping 1500 ft for the 30 nm trip home), I pulled the power back to cruise and it felt turbine smooth, too. I pulled my headset off to ask Laurie (sitting in back without a headset) if she noticed a difference. With her helicopter time, when I ask her if she notices a vibration she usually laughs at me. She noticed a very significant reduction in both noise and vibration, and what struck me on the noise level was that I could actually comfortably fly without my headset on, which previously I couldn't do.

This weekend I've got a long trip that will have something around 30 hours of flight time (over 5 days or so), and I can't wait to fly with this improvement and see the reduction in fatigue due to less vibration and less noise.

If you haven't done this, I would strongly suggest doing it. I wish I'd gotten it done on the Aztec when I had it and on the 310 earlier. This is really some of the best money that I've spent on the airplane. It will be further interesting to see if, when we play with it a bit more to get the number down further, the difference will be noticeable at that point. But right now, the plane is absolutely "turbine smooth."

If you're not too far from the Cincinnati area, give Matt and Matt a call or check their website (www.buckeye-aviation.com) to schedule your prop balance. They're great to work with and are very professional, plus have great prices.
 
The human body can only detect down to a certain level of IPS. The machine certainly knows the difference.

I can usually get it under .1. I was able to get .00 on one run on my RV-12. It was smooth as silk.

It makes zero since not to have your plane dynamically balanced. :no:
 
It was a while before I realized that this is not necessarily a standard practice on prop-driven aircraft. Coming form the helicopter side, it's just a natural thing (and, I suspect, a bit more of a pain in the rear to accomplish). But since 0.2 IPS is the minimum to be considered "within limits" on a helicopter, I would assume that it would be easier to get 0.1 or even slightly less on a prop. Depending on the helicopter, just getting it to 0.2 IPS vertical in all phases of flight can be quite difficult, usually we have to pick the "most normal" airspeed and optimize for that, which usually leaves some of the other airspeeds slightly out of limits.

We also do IPS fixes in both vertical and lateral planes for the helicopter, but apparently only one type of adjustment is made on a prop (not sure if you call it lateral or vertical or something else?)...
 
I agree. I had it done last year and the difference was dramatic going from .3 to .02. The reason I originally had it done was that I was having vibration related repairs every annual. This years annual was the first with no vibration related repairs (not that I didn't get my fair share of other stuff). Perhaps another benefit.
 
If you haven't done this, I would strongly suggest doing it.

They're great to work with and are very professional, plus have great prices.

Approximately what does this cost per engine?
 
Approximately what does this cost per engine?

They charge $250/engine, but if you fly up, I'll buy you a beer. 'course I'd do that whether or not you got your prop balanced. :)
 
They charge $250/engine, but if you fly up, I'll buy you a beer. 'course I'd do that whether or not you got your prop balanced. :)

Let me look at some things, sounds like a good reason for a trip!
 
what makes a prop go out of balance? Is it 100% nicks/dings that come with time? how often would you have a prop balanced?
 
Would be great to see you again. You're welcome to stay at our house.

Just have to knock out the IPC. I've flown 30+ hrs since starting back up last week of August, but it's all been fun VFR flying.

I still remember that nice mocha stout I enjoyed at that Williamsport Brewery a few years back, and the show that was playing at the theater next door. A lot of butch looking women filing in to that one.


IMG_0613-X2.jpg
 
what makes a prop go out of balance? Is it 100% nicks/dings that come with time? how often would you have a prop balanced?
Its not really so much that the prop goes out of balance, but that you are trying to find the balance of the prop/engine/spinner combo at or close to operating speed. There are variations that can only be taken out dynamically. It should be good for a long while if nothing is changed.
 
Its not really so much that the prop goes out of balance, but that you are trying to find the balance of the prop/engine/spinner combo at or close to operating speed. There are variations that can only be taken out dynamically. It should be good for a long while if nothing is changed.

Think of it as similar to balancing the tires on your car.
 
I think most pilots would be stunned if they knew how little the weight is that is normally added to balance an airplane. Usually it is only 15-30 grams. That is an AN 3 bolt about 3\4" long and a couple washers on the fly wheel or spinner backing plate.

Simply using different screw lengths in your spinner will throw the balance off.

When you get your airplane dynamically balanced there are a couple of things you can do to help the balancer.

1. Make sure the engine is tuned up, no intake leaks, compressions are reasonable, and sparks plugs clean. Balancing a rough running engine is useless.
2. Make sure the screws in the spinner are the same length, and washers ( if used) are the same size and thickness.
3. Pick a calm wind day. Wind can cause faulse readings in the balancing.
4. Tie down the airplane and put chocks on the wheels. It usually takes 3-5 run ups to nail the balancing.

Paying anything more than $175 for balancing is a rip off.
 
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Just have to knock out the IPC. I've flown 30+ hrs since starting back up last week of August, but it's all been fun VFR flying.

I still remember that nice mocha stout I enjoyed at that Williamsport Brewery a few years back, and the show that was playing at the theater next door. A lot of butch looking women filing in to that one.

Ha! I remembered the delicious stout, but I'd forgotten about the musical across the street. My memory really is bad since this parent thing started. Danos reminded me of his favorite "souls on board" report from the very early Cloud Nine days. ATC asked how many animals on board, and my rapid response was "19 dogs, 6 cats, and a cougar." :D

Haven't found as good of beer around here yet as at the Bullfrog, but we have found some good restaurants.

Its not really so much that the prop goes out of balance, but that you are trying to find the balance of the prop/engine/spinner combo at or close to operating speed. There are variations that can only be taken out dynamically. It should be good for a long while if nothing is changed.

Yeah, don't fly on Canadian gravel strips. :)
 
I had mine done in KRAP, if you want details PM me. It was an amazing difference and I highly recommend you get it done even if you don't think it's out of balance. It will take away a lot of the small vibrations that you don't notice until they're gone. It was fairly inexpensive because I coupled it with my annual.
 
Had it done on a few pistons and a turbine, money VERY well spent IMO
 
If your props are new, it is best to statically balance them first. The prop manufacturers are not allowed to do that, only a prop shop can.
 
Had it done on a few pistons and a turbine, money VERY well spent IMO


+1....

Money VERY well spent.....

Ps... The shop here uses a ACES unit.. We can usually get the balance down to .02 or so.... The trick to keep it there during the final weight attachment is to use the "split weight" setting.... It seems to give a better result....

My V-8 with the carbon fiber prop and the belt redrive is silky smooth when it is balanced perfectly...:yes::):):)
 
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Is there a difference between the balancing my A&P did on my new MT, and dynamic balancing?

Ron has a box with a gizmo mounted near the prop with a laser I guess it is. We ran the engine up four or five times and he added weights and eventually said it was as tight as he could get it.

Is that dynamic balancing? Or is there more to it?
 
Is there a difference between the balancing my A&P did on my new MT, and dynamic balancing?

Ron has a box with a gizmo mounted near the prop with a laser I guess it is. We ran the engine up four or five times and he added weights and eventually said it was as tight as he could get it.

Is that dynamic balancing? Or is there more to it?


Yes, that is dynamic balancing. ;)

Is it a simple process.
 
Yes, that is dynamic balancing. ;)

Is it a simple process.


Thanks. I was confused, because Ron did it for like a hundred bucks, and I see guys at airshows and others getting 2,3,4 hundred dollars.

That had me wondering if there were two different methods....
 
My wife has nerve damage in her legs (neuropathy) and vibration bothers her quite a bit. I like to run my prop at 2100-2200 RPM, but anything less than 2400 bothers her. Can you specify where you'd like the prop balanced? Or should a dynamic balance effect all cruise RPMs equally?
 
My wife has nerve damage in her legs (neuropathy) and vibration bothers her quite a bit. I like to run my prop at 2100-2200 RPM, but anything less than 2400 bothers her. Can you specify where you'd like the prop balanced? Or should a dynamic balance effect all cruise RPMs equally?

You can specify the exact RPM you want the balancing to be most effective.. They load that number into the handheld computer / balancer and it figures out the balance weights and location...
 
My wife has nerve damage in her legs (neuropathy) and vibration bothers her quite a bit. I like to run my prop at 2100-2200 RPM, but anything less than 2400 bothers her. Can you specify where you'd like the prop balanced? Or should a dynamic balance effect all cruise RPMs equally?

We did my props at 2,000 RPM. Trying to do much more would have been difficult to do because the plane will start trying to jump the chocks in the case of the 310 before long.

Since what you're basically trying to do is add weight to offset an excess weight on the other side of the propeller, I would think it shouldn't matter a great deal so long as you're spinning fast enough for the computer to get a good signal. That was part of why we used 2,000 RPM.
 
My wife has nerve damage in her legs (neuropathy) and vibration bothers her quite a bit. I like to run my prop at 2100-2200 RPM, but anything less than 2400 bothers her. Can you specify where you'd like the prop balanced? Or should a dynamic balance effect all cruise RPMs equally?

Once you balance the engine and prop the vibration at all RPMs will be changed. Her sensitivity to vibration in your plane will be drastically better. Or your money back! :lol:
 
If your props are new, it is best to statically balance them first. The prop manufacturers are not allowed to do that, only a prop shop can.

Is that true? I was talking to a prop shop about overhaul vs new propeller. They said an overhaul would include static balance, but a new prop would come from the mfr (Sensenich) already statically balanced.
 
I did it on the old Commander and it was like night and day. Really worth it.
 
Is that true? I was talking to a prop shop about overhaul vs new propeller. They said an overhaul would include static balance, but a new prop would come from the mfr (Sensenich) already statically balanced.

It is true. If it is a hub with blades the manufacturers can only select blades that are in balance. They can't add weights to statically balance. A prop shop can.

Your Sensenich is a fixed pitch probably. I don't know what the manufacturer does with these, but I suspect they come out perfectly balanced.

Anyway, that is what the owner of A.C. Propeller in Seattle told me.
 
I see Buckeye uses Microvibe equipment. When I had my prop done, about 8 years ago now, Microvibe was considered the cream of the crop, hands down. Is it still?

It's time to do mine again, eight years and two jug overhauls later, I'm sure it's not was it once was.
 
Well Tim. Haul your butt on over to I73 and get it done. Maybe you can work it in with a P&P flight. I am available for transportation if you need it.
 
I see Buckeye uses Microvibe equipment. When I had my prop done, about 8 years ago now, Microvibe was considered the cream of the crop, hands down. Is it still?

It's time to do mine again, eight years and two jug overhauls later, I'm sure it's not was it once was.

There are many good brands out now. Aces was considered the best, but at $10k per unit they were pricey. Today, Microvibe is a great unit for 1\2 the cost, and Dynavibe is $2,000. All do the same thing. I have a Dynavibe, works great. :dunno:

The difference is the upper end units can supposedly tell you a lot of other things about the plane and engine. Even if the alternator is in balance. Pretty amazing stuff really.
 
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I see Buckeye uses Microvibe equipment. When I had my prop done, about 8 years ago now, Microvibe was considered the cream of the crop, hands down. Is it still?

It's time to do mine again, eight years and two jug overhauls later, I'm sure it's not was it once was.
Yes Tim the unit we use is the DSS microvib. There will always be debate over who is better, but I believe Chadwick vibrex, Aces 2020 and the DSS are the top three players. DSS is actually certified on the MORE program stc for pt6. Dynavibe is newer to the market and they have a lower end balancer that gives you basic information and I think they were targeting the exp/hb market with it. They did just release the Dynavibe GX2 which is supposed to compete with the big players. There were supposed to demo one for us at our home a/p, but had to cancel when there long e-z burned up the electrical system. I never heard back from them.
 
Realized I forgot to give an update.

On Tuesday I got back from a 5-day, 40-hour stint in the 310 that covered both coasts and a bunch of places in between. The prop balancing had a very significant impact on the overall flight. More than anything, I felt less fatigued at the end of each day than what I normally did, even with some higher altitudes on O2 and some pretty mentally taxing legs. This ended up with exactly the sort of impact I was hoping for. Although the plane wasn't bad before (I've flown in some significantly worse ones for fatigue), it is worlds better. To be able to fly 8+ hours in a day and hop out not feeling exhausted is worth a lot, especially when you're on final at night.
 
And you didn't stop in Jackson Hole....:dunno::dunno:..


Lil ben is crushed...:sad::sad:

Sorry, Ben. I definitely thought about stopping again at KJAC!

The way the weather worked that day and with the stops I needed to make, I ended up stopping at Evanston, WY for fuel. It was a new airport and got to have lunch with another pilot friend there (from a different board).

Will definitely be swinging through KJAC again!
 
Here is what I've found after balancing props in Atlanta for years. Check the track of the prop first (track has an effect on balance but balance does not have an effect on track.) Once your mech has checked the track, you run it at whatever rpm you use the most (usually about 2400). The basic machine will tell you where it is heavy. On a Lyc, the flywheel has holes already in it. On a continental, you've got to look for somewhere to put the weights, you may have to drill the spinner backplate. IF you are over 1.20 IPS (shakes like crazy) then you have to pull it and send it back for another static balance and your counterweights have likely shifted. Most customers have about a .4-.6 IPS. The high dollar machines will have you add a weight and then add another. They have a learning algorithm and depend on the input of the mechanic to calculate the final solution. The cheaper units just depend on Kentucky windage and a polar chart. I usually get them in about 3-5 runs. The reflective tape is put on the back of the prop, the photo cell and accelerometer are usually mounted on the case half hardware about 2-3 bolts back from the main seal. The balance WILL CHANGE depending on your RPM. (fat guy and skinny guy on a see saw and you make minute changes to the fat guy....) USUALLY - the final balance (you are not supposed to feel anything under .07 IPS) is somewhere at 0.04 IPS and under. Silky smooth. Feel free to email me questions. I've got both Dynavibe units and love them both. If you need it done, it usually runs between 1-200 dollars. IT WILL SAVE YOU TONS ON FUTURE MX!!!!!! A piece of metal sitting on a desk will never crack, one that vibrates will. That costs money!
Best,
Brian Wallis
 
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