Get Sport Pilot Certificate now or wait for MOSAIC?

[htx]

I'm interested in getting a Sport Pilot (Airplane) Certificate because pursuing a third-class medical for PPL would be risky for me. I live in Houston -- far away from any LSA rentals -- so I'm thinking about taking a long vacation to go through an accelerated training program elsewhere. If I get my SPL now in a Sling 2, how big of a learning curve would there be to start flying heavier/more powerful single-engine aircraft when the new regs come into effect?

If I plan to buy a plane that can go from Houston to Nashville in a reasonable amount of time, should I just wait until after MOSAIC is implemented to start flight school or would the transition from truly light aircraft be easy enough?

Thanks for your input.

 

[Dana]

The transition would not be a problem, but if you're planning on flying between Houston and Nashville regularly (what is a "reasonable amount of time"?) you will find that weather will be an issue if you don't have an instrument rating.

 

[samiamPA]

We have been waiting for Mosaic for years, and there is no guarantee as to what it will bring.

If you have goals in aviation, I say move forward with them today. I don't know anyone who has regretted pursuing a dream.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

Back in the '70s I learned to fly in a Cessna 120 (not quite an LSA - 1450 pounds) then the old man sold it and got a Beech Sport. No big deal to transition. After not flying for many years, got flight reviewed in a Cessna 150, then got my rag and tube E-AB LSA taildragger - that was not as easy as the 150. A few years ago, I got a flight review in a 172 just for the fun of it. Stupid easy.

As mentioned, weather can be a big issue if you are flying for transportation. The day I tried to bring my airplane home, when I left in the morning it was predicted to be no problem. Got about 50 miles from home and ran into a wall of thunderstorms and ended up spending the night in some random town. Woke up to low overcast and didn't get out until later in the day.

Sport pilot is somewhat more restrictive than private - you can't fly over clouds, you can't fly at night (legally) and, of course, no flying by instruments.

 

[William Pete Hodges]

The transition would not be a problem, but if you're planning on flying between Houston and Nashville regularly (what is a "reasonable amount of time"?) you will find that weather will be an issue if you don't have an instrument rating.

If you are flying VFR XC then you should become familiar with 7-day VFR weather planning. The idea is that good VFR weather days over your intended route can be predicted with a high likelihood of success. If you search for "7-day VFR weather planning" a couple of links will show up to give you a good idea of how to plan for good VFR flights several days in advance. As long as you have flexibility in your schedule this system works well.

 

[William Pete Hodges]

I'm interested in getting a Sport Pilot (Airplane) Certificate because pursuing a third-class medical for PPL would be risky for me. I live in Houston -- far away from any LSA rentals -- so I'm thinking about taking a long vacation to go through an accelerated training program elsewhere. If I get my SPL now in a Sling 2, how big of a learning curve would there be to start flying heavier/more powerful single-engine aircraft when the new regs come into effect?

If I plan to buy a plane that can go from Houston to Nashville in a reasonable amount of time, should I just wait until after MOSAIC is implemented to start flight school or would the transition from truly light aircraft be easy enough?

Thanks for your input.

I have never flown a light sport or ultralight. But an instructor I respect once told me that because these airplanes are so light, light winds toss them around easier than heavier airplanes. This can make them more difficult to control and land unless the wind is very light. So once you have learned to fly them, especially in some wind, transition to other aircraft is a piece of cake!

Get your sport pilot now. Don't wait.

 

[DaleB]

I agree with other responses - don't wait for MOSAIC. We really have no idea what the final rule will look like, nor do we know for sure when it will be announced (likely at this year's Oshkosh, but there are no guarantees) nor when it will actually go into effect. You could be flying on your new SP ticket before any changes actually happen. A lot of people know what we've asked for with MOSAIC, but nobody outside of the FAA knows what it's actually going to include.

You might also give some thought to the cost of an extended vacation to train in a rented plane, versus the cost of buying an LSA (Champ, Cub, RV-12, or something else) to train in locally. You can always sell it later if you want some other plane.

 

[RyanShort1]

I have never flown a light sport or ultralight. But an instructor I respect once told me that because these airplanes are so light, light winds toss them around easier than heavier airplanes. This can make them more difficult to control and land unless the wind is very light. So once you have learned to fly them, especially in some wind, transition to other aircraft is a piece of cake!

Get your sport pilot now. Don't wait.

Don't let instructor ignorance scare you about light sport stuff. Find instructors that actually know light sport aircraft and can speak with knowledge, and go for it.

 

[Anthem]

Sport pilot is great for flying. But I wouldn’t rely on it for traveling on any sort of schedule. It would be great to go cross country without a schedule on your own time. But if you need to get anywhere - sport pilot is a bad idea - even with mosaic since you can’t get to instrument

 

[RyanShort1]

Sport pilot is great for flying. But I wouldn’t rely on it for traveling on any sort of schedule. It would be great to go cross country without a schedule on your own time. But if you need to get anywhere - sport pilot is a bad idea - even with mosaic since you can’t get to instrument

Have you compared LSA speeds with Cessna 172s? It's not like the gap is that huge.

 

[rhkennerly]

people have been turning blue holding their breath, waiting for Mosaic—for years.

Just because Mosaic is implemented, there is no evidence FBO’s will begin renting to Sport pilots or training Sport pilots immediately (or that their insurance companies will allow either right away).

I don’t think a regular CFI can train Sport pilots, so the Sport instructor crunch will continue, even if the FBO will/can rent to you. But I haven’t followed the reg much.

When MOSAIC is finally implemented, you’ll just be more competition for a fairly scarce resource: C172’s & Archers.

—-

Regarding transitions: you should have a few hours of transition training for every new class you fly. And now, transition training in the same class but moving up from steam gauges to glass. Glass made my head swim. Now I can’t live without it.

As mentioned above, LSA’s are a somewhat different bird due to their light weight, low wing loading, & need for extreme attention in ground maneuvers when it’s windy. In other words, an LSA is a modern day J-3 cub, C140, Aeronca Champ, or Taylorcraft. In an LSA you’ll learn terrific stick & rudder skills, develop a fine seat of the pants feel for the plane & wind, & a great eye in an LSA. In truth, LSAs are a blast to fly.

When I shifted down to LSA from a C172, it was a far more challenging transition than moving up to a C172 from a C150.

Despite having decades of flying & several hundred hours in the logbook before my Bushcat was completed, I put in about 20 hrs of dual in a C150 with an instructor. When I finally got into the Bushcat, I found the C150 was roughly the same experience. But neither are like a 172.

—-

I worry about any VFR pilot’s expectations in any airplane when I read something like: Houston to xxx in a reasonable amount of time. To my mind, It implies schedules & time pressures in an inappropriate circumstance.

I fly a fair amount of longish XC in my Bushcat (I plan 85mph), which sometimes includes nights in my sleeping bag on various FBO sofas waiting for weather (a caution shaped by, decades ago when I was forced down by WX on a TVA trail road. I endured a terrifying & hungry night sleeping in the cockpit of a Champ wrapped in a cowling blanket, thrashed by cold rain & wind. I tethered the CHAMP to a log with the tie down ropes. — ask me about the XC survival kit I carry now ;—> ).

 

[rhkennerly]

Sport pilot is great for flying. But I wouldn’t rely on it for traveling on any sort of schedule. It would be great to go cross country without a schedule on your own time. But if you need to get anywhere - sport pilot is a bad idea - even with mosaic since you can’t get to instrument

I’d amend that to “any VFR only” licensed pilot: Sport, Private, or Commercial).

 

[rhkennerly]

I'm interested in getting a Sport Pilot (Airplane) Certificate because pursuing a third-class medical for PPL would be risky for me. I live in Houston -- far away from any LSA rentals -- so I'm thinking about taking a long vacation to go through an accelerated training program elsewhere. If I get my SPL now in a Sling 2, how big of a learning curve would there be to start flying heavier/more powerful single-engine aircraft when the new regs come into effect?

If I plan to buy a plane that can go from Houston to Nashville in a reasonable amount of time, should I just wait until after MOSAIC is implemented to start flight school or would the transition from truly light aircraft be easy enough?

Thanks for your input.

Of course, thinking this thru, if there are no Sport Rentals in your area, getting a Sport license now & waiting for MOSAIC is going to be extremely frustrating.

 

[Beachy]

I've been flying Sport Pilot since shortly after the rule was enabled. When I travel somewhere in my Ercoupe I never "have to" get there nor is there a specific time involved. Therefore, I do not worry about IMC curtailing or redirecting a flight. But that's just my approach to flying, YMMV.

 

[Baked Potato]

I've been flying Sport Pilot since shortly after the rule was enabled. When I travel somewhere in my Ercoupe I never "have to" get there nor is there a specific time involved. Therefore, I do not worry about IMC curtailing or redirecting a flight. But that's just my approach to flying, YMMV.

Good advice, and really should be every VFR pilot's approach to flying, no?

 

[BillTIZ]

I don’t think a regular CFI can train Sport pilots, so the Sport instructor crunch will continue, even if the FBO will/can rent to you. But I haven’t followed the reg much.

If it is Light Sport Airplane, then yes, a CFI-Airplane can train pilots to the Sport level.
If it is Light Sport, Weight shift, or other combination, the "Airplane" CFI needs to have that qualification on his certificate.

 

[Anthem]

Have you compared LSA speeds with Cessna 172s? It's not like the gap is that huge.

Again no relevance if you can’t get instrument. If you need to get anywhere or back over such a long distance - you’re much better off with instrument

 

[RyanShort1]

Again no relevance if you can’t get instrument. If you need to get anywhere or back over such a long distance - you’re much better off with instrument

Everyone starts somewhere... even private pilots don't get their IFR ticket first.

 

[Anthem]

Everyone starts somewhere... even private pilots don't get their IFR ticket first.

Absolutely. But most private pilots aren’t trying to go 500+ nm either. But the key differentiating factor - private you can get your instrument. With sport - you cannot. Dead end

 

[kmacht]

Start now and start locally. You can train and build hours in non light sport aircraft that will count towards your sport pilots license. You just can’t solo in one or take the exam in one. Start locally with whatever is available. There is tons to learn about cockpit management, dealing with wind, flight planning, navigating, communication, etc that you can build skills in before soloing. Go get 15 or 20 hours doing that and then decide if you want to go solo and finish with an accelerated course away from home or if you want to buy something to finish training in. You may even find some other people at the flight school who may want to partner with you on a light sport plane.

 

[RyanShort1]

Absolutely. But most private pilots aren’t trying to go 500+ nm either. But the key differentiating factor - private you can get your instrument. With sport - you cannot. Dead end

Not so. It's only a dead end if you can't pass a medical, or pay for a checkride.
I've had a student switch over to private when they realized it was worth $2K more.

Also, if you look at the OP's post, Houston to Nashville is in the south and there are plenty of weather patterns most of the year that would allow for VFR flying back and forth with a bit of patience. The stuff one wouldn't want to fly in, is risky for single-engine IFR anyway.

 

[midlifeflyer]

I don’t think a regular CFI can train Sport pilots, so the Sport instructor crunch will continue, even if the FBO will/can rent to you. But I haven’t followed the reg much.

What makes you think that a "regular" CFI can't train someone seeking a lower certificate level in an airplane?

 

[midlifeflyer]

If I get my SPL now in a Sling 2, how big of a learning curve would there be to start flying heavier/more powerful single-engine aircraft when the new regs come into effect?

No more than the learning curve for any transition into a different model or higher performance single-engine airplane. First transitions tend to be difficult, even those which are "objectively" simple because of model similarities. Very small differences can mean a lot at that stage. Later transitions tend to be easier because you have built up experience dealing with differences. Think back to when you first learned to drive. If you did all your learning in one car, the first time you drove something even a little different, it felt really strange. Now, you can hop into most anything and the biggest issue is how the radio works. It's not quite the same with airplanes, but very similar.

Having started with a modern LSA, you may even have a step-up. As a rule, those who learn in a modern light sport tend to be better with certain things, most notably landings. That's because they are so lightly loaded and have so little momentum that things like crosswinds take more corrective control than other tricycle gear airplanes.

 

[rk911]

I hold an Sport Pilot certificate and had intended to transition to Private Pilot before I self-grounded due to health issues. Virtually all of my training for the Sport cert was in a Cessna 162 but I have a number of dual hours in a 172 and I was delighted to find that the transition was not difficult at all. I suspect the same will be true for the OP.

 

[MauleSkinner]

What makes you think that a "regular" CFI can't train someone seeking a lower certificate level in an airplane?

CFI has to be constipated?

 

[WDD]

1) You can take your training for Sport Pilot in a Skyhawk. You just have to do your solo work and check ride work in an SLA. Thus, you can start your training now. Then do a shortened accelerated training when you get everything done except the the solo parts. The accelerated school can then train and orient you to the LSA, get you ready for the final solo flights and of course your check ride.

2) Yes, a "regular" CFI can train you.

 

[Half Fast]

Dead end

Hardly that.

If you get a SP ticket, all your training, XCs, solo hours, etc., can apply toward a PP certificate if you later decide Sport’s not enough. I did exactly that. Not a dead end at all.

 

[WDD]

If Sport Pilot gets him in the air, how is that a “Dead End”?

 

[Anthem]

Hardly that.

If you get a SP ticket, all your training, XCs, solo hours, etc., can apply toward a PP certificate if you later decide Sport’s not enough. I did exactly that. Not a dead end at all.

you are no longer SP at that point. You have transitioned. No doubt that you can - but just as a sport pilot - its a dead end. No other ratings are possible. That statement still stands.

Otherwise, based on that - everyone should start as a SP, and guess what - ATP and the airlines is right there. You can apply all your time in SP and get your ATP. Which yes, you can - but why if you need to move to PPL, CPL, or ATP. Its another checkride and additional overlapping time and work.

 

[MauleSkinner]

Again no relevance if you can’t get instrument. If you need to get anywhere or back over such a long distance - you’re much better off with instrument

Having flown VFR-only airplanes extensively around the country, and I find it to work out very close to the reliability of single engine, non-FIKI, non-radar IFR. Either the weather’s good enough and you go, or it’s not and you do something else. Sometimes you try but guess wrong, so you land and either wait it out or rent a car and come back for the airplane another time. Happens the same VFR or IFR.

 

[Anthem]

Having flown VFR-only airplanes extensively around the country, and I find it to work out very close to the reliability of single engine, non-FIKI, non-radar IFR. Either the weather’s good enough and you go, or it’s not and you do something else. Sometimes you try but guess wrong, so you land and either wait it out or rent a car and come back for the airplane another time. Happens the same VFR or IFR.

and having flown extensively cross country - i pretty much ALWAYS file IFR. And you can define all the parameters you want - but having a FIKI, radar equipped plane, and flying IFR makes you a safer, more aware pilot. I do have FIKI and I do have radar onboard (actually have had radar and FIKI on the last three planes Ive owned). And regularly do cross countries (actually going across the country) of 800-1000 miles per leg. And crap weather can keep a VFR pilot grounded for multiple days, but generally with a really good IFR capable plane, you wont generally need to wait longer than a day.

Look - your arguing a stupid point. No one can dispute that if you are instrument rated and proficient - that you wont be a safer and better pilot while flying 500nm trips. . To argue for VFR is pointless and idiotic. While you may not agree, most are going to agree that having an instrument ticket and being able to fly in IMC conditions will markedly increase your dispatch rate.

 

[WDD]

The point is that if you can’t get IFR because you can’t get a PPL because you can’t get a medical, you can still fly X Country VFR safely. Get flight following. Pretend you’re flying for your commercial rating, which is all VFR BTW. And if you’re IFR trained you will be better. But you can still fly safely without it.

And of course you’ll have a higher dispatch rate IFR, be able to fly into IMC, etc. But if you can’t get a PPL and IFR, you can’t.

 

[MauleSkinner]

and having flown extensively cross country - i pretty much ALWAYS file IFR. And you can define all the parameters you want - but having a FIKI, radar equipped plane, and flying IFR makes you a safer, more aware pilot. I do have FIKI and I do have radar onboard (actually have had radar and FIKI on the last three planes Ive owned). And regularly do cross countries (actually going across the country) of 800-1000 miles per leg. And crap weather can keep a VFR pilot grounded for multiple days, but generally with a really good IFR capable plane, you wont generally need to wait longer than a day.

Look - your arguing a stupid point. No one can dispute that if you are instrument rated and proficient - that you wont be a safer and better pilot while flying 500nm trips. . To argue for VFR is pointless and idiotic. While you may not agree, most are going to agree that having an instrument ticket and being able to fly in IMC conditions will markedly increase your dispatch rate.

My experience is the pilots who pretty much ALWAYS file IFR are poor judges of what a competent VFR pilot can accomplish.

 

[Anthem]

My experience is the pilots who pretty much ALWAYS file IFR are poor judges of what a competent VFR pilot can accomplish.

And my experience of what some self proclaimed competent vfr pilot who espouses being restricted to vfr flying is the same as ifr is a poor judge of what a competent pilot can accomplish.

 

[MauleSkinner]

And my experience of what some self proclaimed competent vfr pilot who espouses being restricted to vfr flying is the same as ifr is a poor judge of what a competent pilot can accomplish.

I’m assuming your experience in this regard has a sample size of 1.

 

[RyanShort1]

And my experience of what some self proclaimed competent vfr pilot who espouses being restricted to vfr flying is the same as ifr is a poor judge of what a competent pilot can accomplish.

What's with all the negative waves? What's your specific beef with Light Sport for those who are eligible???

I flew my old Luscombe day VFR and without a radio all the way from Wisconsin to Texas right after I bought it, and flew it from Dallas to Houston and stuff like that with no issues. Bet you think that's a bad idea, but it was a lot of fun, too.

Also, are you an instructor?

 

[midlifeflyer]

My experience is the pilots who pretty much ALWAYS file IFR are poor judges of what a competent VFR pilot can accomplish.

…or maybe just afraid of VFR?

 

[midlifeflyer]

I flew my old Luscombe day VFR and without a radio all the way from Wisconsin to Texas right after I bought it, and flew it from Dallas to Houston and stuff like that with no issues

An old friend if mine and his instructor flew from Oregon to North Carolina in a newly-purchased RV12 LSA some years ago.

 

[Anthem]

What's with all the negative waves? What's your specific beef with Light Sport for those who are eligible???

I flew my old Luscombe day VFR and without a radio all the way from Wisconsin to Texas right after I bought it, and flew it from Dallas to Houston and stuff like that with no issues. Bet you think that's a bad idea, but it was a lot of fun, too.

Also, are you an instructor?

None. Zero issues with SP. have actually recommended it for people. Issues I have is if you actually have to get somewhere with a decent distance on some sort of schedule. If it’s always - I can go whenever and it’s on vacation with wide scheduling days - then sure. If it’s in trying to be there on some sort of regular schedule or needing to be there - then that’s a bad option.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Funny about the direction this thread has taken. I earned my instrument rating in 1992 shortly before I moved to Colorado and spent most of the next 20 years flying VFR. MEAs requiring oxygen, >300 VFR days a year, a short 4-6 week window where there might be 10 days of flyable clouds with no ice or thunderstorms all contributed.

I love flying both IFR and VFR and would be hard-pressed to say which I liked more. And yes, I’ve flown for business VFR. More than IFR.

I think if a sport certificate is impractical for “gotta be there” trips, it’s because the airplanes are are slow, not because they are not IFR capable. But sometimes, girls just wanna have fun.