Gerace's new jet

new jet....

Richard said:
http://www.controller.com/listings/forsale/detail.asp?ohid=1087134

Bob is closer to that new jet than he thinks.

There is a nice write up in the May issue of GAN that details what the folks at YourAirplaneSource do to make this a true exec jet.
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So why do you think the skies are not full of refurb'd tubomeca jets?

Think Hot section times.
Think only 4,300 made.
It's a total cost thing.
 
Re: new jet....

bbchien said:
So why do you think the skies are not full of refurb'd tubomeca jets?

Think Hot section times.
Think only 4,300 made.
It's a total cost thing.
Click to expand...

So would the Eclipse, as example, be any different? Both are certified, both have small number in the fleet. Both would have (should have) adequate parts/mx support.
 
Re: new jet....

Richard said:
So would the Eclipse, as example, be any different? Both are certified, both have small number in the fleet. Both would have (should have) adequate parts/mx support.
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The Turbomeca has 1200 hr hot sections. The Pratt goes 3600 and is eligible for 4800. Now go and amortize $125,000 (each engine) over those numbers (that's is you're very very careful and don't have a couple of hot starts).

The Pratt Fan (PW6xx)- it's a standard fan. Lots of them flying.

I haven't even begun to talk insurance, either.
 
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Re: new jet....

bbchien said:
The Turbomeca has 1200 hr hot sections. The Pratt goes 3600 and is eligible for 4800. Now go and amortize $125,000 (each engine) over those numbers (that's is you're very very careful and don't have a couple of hot starts).

The Pratt Fan (PW6xx)- it's a standard fan. Lots of them flying.

I haven't even begun to talk insurance, either.
Click to expand...

Thing is you can get Marbury IV engines in the drum surplus from militarys in Europe and elsewhere for cheap, crap we'd get whole planes (CM-170s) for $30k.
 
Richard said:
http://www.controller.com/listings/forsale/detail.asp?ohid=1087134

Bob is closer to that new jet than he thinks.

There is a nice write up in the May issue of GAN that details what the folks at YourAirplaneSource do to make this a true exec jet.
Click to expand...

They are fun planes, I'll grant you that, it's an aerobatic plane, flies with a stick and burns jet A and goes in the upper 200s for cruise speed and cruises up there with the big iron in the 300s for FLs. It flys and lands with no real bad habits, however they are very old school engines, spool up time is a factor.

It is Noisy, especially on the ground, those are centrifugal turbines and have a bad whistle on the ground, your neighbors will not like you. It is moderately priced maintenance for having a jet. It's not particularly hard to work on either, access to everything is pretty good. They are all OLD, and it IS an aerobatic jet, be very careful in purchasing one of these. Most of them have seen abuse and neglect over their lives. There are only a couple shops in the US to take one to for a good pre-buy. I do like them enough that I recommended one of my clients buy one a couple of years ago while he was waiting for the new crop of microjets.
 
Richard,

Thanks for looking out for me! It does look interesting for sure!

As for times on engines, I need the 4800 variety. That gives me 16 years of flying 300 hours per year. By then, I have either lost my medical or have sold it and purchased my G-IV.

If you find one of these with 4800 hours available, please send me a pm. ;)
 
RobertGerace said:
Richard,

Thanks for looking out for me! It does look interesting for sure!

As for times on engines, I need the 4800 variety. That gives me 16 years of flying 300 hours per year. By then, I have either lost my medical or have sold it and purchased my G-IV.

If you find one of these with 4800 hours available, please send me a pm. ;)
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Sure thing, Robert. Your post begs the question: How viable is it for a successful businessman to run the business AND pilot his G-IV? Your pilot duties would prevent you from engaging in the business during the block time for the flight. There are other time constraints but can a guy focus on both and maintain his edge?
 
Richard,

S....I....G....H.... (or...BIG sigh...).

Sam Walton in his autobiography about how he built Wal*Mart said something to the effect of, "The best place in the airplane for the CEO is the back."

That is sadly true. While it's lots of fun to take off and land, and even fun to monitor things in cruise, the sad truth is that the hours between airports are a HUGE waste of business time that could be spent in the back...meeting with employees, clients, even doing email and voicemail.

Also, the extra time to deal with the airplane before and after, get the briefings, make sure there is fuel, watch the weather every day...sigh...

The further sad truth is that when I used to fly with AirShares Elite (who did all the airplane maintenance and fuel and dispatching) and profesional pilot companies...who did everything to plan the flight and make the go/no decisions...it was MUCH easier on me.

Having to do it all myself is a real burden.

As I go forward, I'm thinking seriously about hiring a baby sitter (not what I would call it, but I'm sure it is what they would call it)...to do all the 'grunt' work and let me do the fun stuff (take off and land)...and then let me crawl in the back and work / meet, etc.

I haven't taken that step because the ultimate sad truth is that I did not really progress as quickly in my piloting skills with a babysitter along. I've made more progress in the last six months then I did in all the time with the babysitters.

The other answer was to back away from duties at CRC (which I am doing anyway) and become the chief pilot for CRC. However, when your kid has a ballgame and you want to be home, you can make yourself go try to make a huge deal...but it is getting harder and harder to make myself go just to get to fly.

Sorry to rant, but I wanted to give you an honest answer.

On the bright side, we have at least 3 vacations planned for this summer, and I'm flying for all of them. Now THAT is fun!
;)
 
RobertGerace said:
Sam Walton in his autobiography about how he built Wal*Mart said something to the effect of, "The best place in the airplane for the CEO is the back."

That is sadly true. While it's lots of fun to take off and land, and even fun to monitor things in cruise, the sad truth is that the hours between airports are a HUGE waste of business time that could be spent in the back...meeting with employees, clients, even doing email and voicemail.
Click to expand...

When I was a student pilot still, I would more than occassionaly fly around the country with an old QB & businessman in his 421 that I did maint on. Real nice guy. He basically took me as company on the LGB-SFO trips, but he had me flying. When I got my Prvt multi he moved me to the left seat and took the right. When I got my multi com, he moved to the back and did paperwork. Worked out mutually beneficial, he'd have all the paperwork from the meeting sorted out before we were wheels down, and I was flying around in a 421. He was a great old guy, used to Fly the Hump, even loaned me his Jag for a date once.
 
"Sam Walton in his autobiography about how he built Wal*Mart said something to the effect of, "The best place in the airplane for the CEO is the back.""


You know Bob, when we had that thread about using the plane to enhance income, I was thinking the same thing.

Guess I'll keep rowing my Cherokee across the skies. :)
 
Henning said:
When I was a student pilot still, I would more than occassionaly fly around the country with an old QB & businessman in his 421 that I did maint on. Real nice guy. He basically took me as company on the LGB-SFO trips, but he had me flying. When I got my Prvt multi he moved me to the left seat and took the right. When I got my multi com, he moved to the back and did paperwork. Worked out mutually beneficial, he'd have all the paperwork from the meeting sorted out before we were wheels down, and I was flying around in a 421. He was a great old guy, used to Fly the Hump, even loaned me his Jag for a date once.
Click to expand...

I think we need a "what hasn't Henning done?" thread here...

Cheers,

-Andrew
 
Re: new jet....

Henning said:
Thing is you can get Marbury IV engines in the drum surplus from militarys in Europe and elsewhere for cheap, crap we'd get whole planes (CM-170s) for $30k.
Click to expand...

I've always wanted to fly a Fouga. There's a beautiful one down at COS. Why I could swing buying one, I couldn't afford to fly it, let alone the hours needed to get type rated. It amazes me the GPH of fuel even the smallest jets consume.
 
astanley said:
I think we need a "what hasn't Henning done?" thread here...
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I know one thing Henning hasn't done. He's never woken up hungover and naked, lying in a pile of towels, not knowing where he was or how he got there, with his clothes covered with fire extinguisher powder and his socks out in the driveway.
 
Ken Ibold said:
I know one thing Henning hasn't done. He's never woken up hungover and naked, lying in a pile of towels, not knowing where he was or how he got there, with his clothes covered with fire extinguisher powder and his socks out in the driveway.
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That's a good drunk story!

:cheerswine:

-Andrew
 
larrysb said:
"Sam Walton in his autobiography about how he built Wal*Mart said something to the effect of, "The best place in the airplane for the CEO is the back.""


You know Bob, when we had that thread about using the plane to enhance income, I was thinking the same thing.

Guess I'll keep rowing my Cherokee across the skies. :)
Click to expand...

Larry (and Henning):

Both of your posts knit together IMHO. The airplane DOES ehnance income...as it gets you to more meetings. I believe the 421C enhances much more income because it is much more capable than the Cherokee.

Jesus said, "No man can serve two masters," and that applies to this part of this thread. You are either an excellent pilot or an excellent business man -- again in my opinion. One of them is going to suffer...but if I back away from business...I can be successful through others and concentrate on being a pilot.

John Travolta seems to have done it, but he is a rare exception. I would like to do it, and I like to feel I could become the exception.

To date, I've threaded that needle -- and it is a tough row to hoe. I just had my 310 in the shop for a bad exhaust valve in #2 on the right engine. The mech said that it was hot on two sides...and showing 5/80 compression. Another flight or two and I would have most likely needed another turbo charger.

But I was lucky enough to know some really wise and experienced pilots on this board and the CPA board who told me that I should have a JPI. And I was fortunate enough to be able to get one...and smart enough to monitor it...and lucky enough to know people who could help me to decipher the results...and on...and on...

It takes a tremendous effort to be *that* into flying and my airplane and still show up ready to meet...and still get home at night with anything left to give my family. It makes 'get-there-itis' have a whole new meeting...and it illustrates why I'm posting about learning 'how tired is too tired.'

To sum up, a very profound 15 year old (my son's friend) was talking to my son and me the other day. We had just set up an entire recording studio and finally had it working -- and he had played the drums 100 times to get all the levels right. At that point, the real work could begin (playing another 100 times to get the song right.) He looked at me and said, "You know, this is hard...but it is the life I choose."

Being CEO...*and*...Chief pilot is hard, but it's the life I choose. ;)
 
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Ken Ibold said:
I know one thing Henning hasn't done. He's never woken up hungover and naked, lying in a pile of towels, not knowing where he was or how he got there, with his clothes covered with fire extinguisher powder and his socks out in the driveway.
Click to expand...

You 'fessing up, ken? ;)
 
Ken Ibold said:
I know one thing Henning hasn't done. He's never woken up hungover and naked, lying in a pile of towels, not knowing where he was or how he got there, with his clothes covered with fire extinguisher powder and his socks out in the driveway.
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Ken. Now come on. You don't think HH has a good "I did this when I was drunk" story? His sober stories are better, and more outragious than ANY of my drunk stories, even my college drunk stories!
 
RobertGerace said:
To sum up, a very profound 15 year old (my son's friend) was talking to my son and me the other day. We had just set up an entire recording studio and finally had it working -- and he had played the drums 100 times to get all the levels right. At that point, the real work could begin (playing another 100 times to get the song right.) He looked at me and said, "You know, this is hard...but it is the life I choose."
Click to expand...
An amateur practices until he gets it right. A pro practices until he can't get it wrong.
 
Re: new jet....

Anthony said:
I've always wanted to fly a Fouga. There's a beautiful one down at COS. Why I could swing buying one, I couldn't afford to fly it, let alone the hours needed to get type rated. It amazes me the GPH of fuel even the smallest jets consume.
Click to expand...

You used to be able to fly them on an LOA, I don't know anymore, and as far as cost to fly, a Fouga ain't all that bad, if you can afford a 310, you can afford a Fouga. They are very docile aircraft, but if you're flying from the back seat, you land it using a periscope which takes a bit of getting used to. The real problem is the flight area restrictions that were put on us, and if we left out "box", we had to be on our way to an airshow or demonstration or maint. No flying to see Mom and Dad, unless of course, there was some potential buyer there to demo the plane to. I don't know if they've eased up on these conditions over the last decade or not.
 
Ken Ibold said:
I know one thing Henning hasn't done. He's never woken up hungover and naked, lying in a pile of towels, not knowing where he was or how he got there, with his clothes covered with fire extinguisher powder and his socks out in the driveway.
Click to expand...

Nope, you're right about that, my socks were in the dryer.
 
Re: new jet....

Henning said:
You used to be able to fly them on an LOA, I don't know anymore, and as far as cost to fly, a Fouga ain't all that bad, if you can afford a 310, you can afford a Fouga. They are very docile aircraft, but if you're flying from the back seat, you land it using a periscope which takes a bit of getting used to. The real problem is the flight area restrictions that were put on us, and if we left out "box", we had to be on our way to an airshow or demonstration or maint. No flying to see Mom and Dad, unless of course, there was some potential buyer there to demo the plane to. I don't know if they've eased up on these conditions over the last decade or not.
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HH what haven't you flown/done? Geez, After I croak, I want to come back as you!

Ha, ha. "If you can afford a 310, you can afford a Fouga." I could afford a 310, but then I'd have to find a place to live, because my wife would have left me, taken the house, the dog and probably half the 310 and everything else. It would be me, half the 310 and my good looks. And that's it! Think I'll stick with the Tiger.
 
Re: Gerace's new jet (310 question)

Didn't he buy a 310? And have lots of problems with it after he bought it?

I found this story online about his purchase:

http://jtatwins.com/JTA Case Study/jtacasestudy (3).htm

Just wondering if it was for the same plane, and if he still feels as he did when he wrote those words.

Miss him, too... wish he'd come back.
 
I just returned from 3 days in Dallas. I flew a manager down and during our stay we rented a new office, interviewed and made an offer to a new manager of a Ft Worth office, spent some time at our Dallas office, and then last night, had dinner with two senior managers from our primary vendor. I would have loved to crawl in the back of the 421 at about 9PM last night and been in my bed at home by midnight. Instead, I went to bed at the Marriott and we blasted off this morning.

Like Bob, I think of hiring someone to help with the flying, but the times I want to turn over the reins are few. It was neat departing Love Field this morning, flying the departure, and, for the first time ever, getting "direct destination" 15 minutes after departure. And I didn't even ask for it!

I have Nexrad being installed to my KMD 850 in the next week and added squawks for a failing tach generator, vacuum shuttle valve malfunction, and failing DME display.

I asked them to have it ready by next Thursday. I'm flying it to Osh Kosh.
 
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Re: new jet....

Anthony said:
I've always wanted to fly a Fouga. There's a beautiful one down at COS. Why I could swing buying one, I couldn't afford to fly it, let alone the hours needed to get type rated. It amazes me the GPH of fuel even the smallest jets consume.
Click to expand...


You have really got to get down to SAF and visit Larry. Fouga, Mig15, L39. You just might not come back!

Jim G
 
Re: new jet....

grattonja said:
You have really got to get down to SAF and visit Larry. Fouga, Mig15, L39. You just might not come back!

Jim G
Click to expand...


Sometimes I just go to his website and dream. But at $1,000/hour for training, I'm afraid that's all I'll be doing as everything is measured in Tiger hours or avionics. :)
 
Re: new jet....

Anthony said:
Sometimes I just go to his website and dream. But at $1,000/hour for training, I'm afraid that's all I'll be doing as everything is measured in Tiger hours or avionics. :)
Click to expand...


I hear that. It will be a LONG time before we get back up in the L39. 40th birthdays have to be special for something though (other than baldness) :D

We have both agreed we really want to solo the L39. Guess I need to start playing the lottery.

Jim G
 
Re: new jet....

grattonja said:
I hear that. It will be a LONG time before we get back up in the L39. 40th birthdays have to be special for something though (other than baldness) :D

We have both agreed we really want to solo the L39. Guess I need to start playing the lottery.

Jim G
Click to expand...

I think I got a tie for my 40th. (just kidding dear)

Soloing an L39 would be VERY cool, plus its not French. For some reason, I have a soft spot for the Fouga, maybe becuase they are actually "attainable". Yeah right.
 
RobertGerace said:
...
Sam Walton in his autobiography about how he built Wal*Mart said something to the effect of, "The best place in the airplane for the CEO is the back."

That is sadly true. While it's lots of fun to take off and land, and even fun to monitor things in cruise, the sad truth is that the hours between airports are a HUGE waste of business time that could be spent in the back...meeting with employees, clients, even doing email and voicemail.
...
Click to expand...

Quite true Bob, but...

...for me, the flying (the actual plan the flight and get in the left seat and fly the airplane) is my only hobby-like activity, something I am able to do that relieves stress rather than increasing it, and the gravy is that I can now use it for valid business purposes (at times, anyway).

I don't golf, fish, hunt, play cards or womanize ('cept for my wife, and I am always chasing her!). Flying's it, so the time I spend at the yoke is not wasted, because it clears the mental decks for the lawyer work which is always waiting on the ground.

I do admit, though, that I would love to have a reliable and cost-rational means of conducting some telephone calls from cruise levels, using that low-workoad time to get calls returned.
 
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