Generator for hangar door

Just a data point, my not be relevant. Some generators have an "eco" mode that will idle down the engine. When you add load, they spin the engine up. But there's no way that happens fast enough to start a large electric motor. The load increase is very fast. So see if you can put that honda or other inverter generator into "non-eco" mode and it might start the motor. The other way would be to try an older technology, non-inverter generator that runs at a constant RPM. Those don't get the great economy, but seem likely to have more current capacity at start.

The other thought would be to change the gearing of the drive system to it's not taking full power to open the door. I'm assuming you're not flying alert F-16's and need to have the door open in 3 seconds...if you can change the gears or belts to make it twice as long to open, those current spikes are going to go down.

Ok, finally, I don't know how the door is setup. A homeowner garage door is on a spring, so the motor doesn't have to lift the whole weight of the door. No idea if your door is like that, but reducing the load on the motor will reduce it's load on the electric. And if you do have springs and they're not working right, it could be adding to the problem.

Best of luck!
 
Our local aero community, one of the local guys built a counter weight system for his bifold, he did it right, however if that thing did somehow fail it’s got death written all over it, the weight is HUGE

There is a reason we are going with internal WWII (mini) style sliders, good wheels and tracks and bearings

 
Some hangar doors I was recently looking at had provision for operating with a drill--there was a 5/8" or so hex head on a shaft that would turn the transmission to allow raising or lowering the door. Took a big cordless drill and was slow, but it worked. Might want to see if your system has such...
 
With all of these great ideas, I’m getting the feeling this will be a complicated and expensive solution looking for a real and likely problem.
 
Your problem is the unbalanced weight of the door. The door manufacturer has designed things such that they use probably all of the service factor of the motor (and probably then some) rather than counterbalance the door. Little power is needed to simply move the door.
 
Lots of good ideas and thoughts. Just for clarification...

DC Cables. There are two #1 gauge heavy duty welding cables for positive terminal and the same for negative terminal, all four cables are about 3 feet long.

If I go gen set, will use Stabil (probably the blue stuff).

How much money to spend? As little as possible, but need to have backup ability to open hangar door.

Use of generator? Actually, the hangar is a "hangar house". A large hangar with a small enclosed living space inside, and a garage door and entry door for access to hangar. Thus, a generator could also serve as backup for the living space and garage door. No plans to use transfer switch, as I would only plug in items such as refrigerator using extension cords, and this is how the hangar door is powered (ie, it is plugged into 20 amp outlet).

Have a Honda 3000is that has Eco mode. I did switch the Eco mode off, so it was running full speed during the attempt to open the hangar door.

The gear drive system is factory provided by Hi-Fold hangar door company. It is an integrated system with safety shields, etc.

Prefer not to add any counterweight. The door is very heavy, and it would take a substantial weight to counter the door weight.

Good idea on the mini-sliders, but I am already set with the current bi-fold door that uses four cables to lift.

Use of a drill. Yes, this would be a nice feature, but the lift motor is built into the door, and goes up with the door.

Since the solution to the problem will also help with powering the enclosed living space during power outages (which are somewhat frequent and can be for hours), some type of gen set solution would be "dual purpose".

Something I don't understand. I can plug the power cord for the hangar door (very heavy cord) into the nearby 20 amp plug, and it will operate the door. But when I plug into my Honda 3000is gen set (which has 23.5 amp output continuous) it bogs down and trips the internal safety switch. Apparently the house electric power (and breaker) has a fair amount of ability to carry instantaneous surges.

I also remain interested in the inverter idea, because I have it (it came with the property), and it is quiet and easy to maintain. It could be economical since I only need a battery pack to operate the hangar door (which I need to size to determine how much this option would cost). The original battery pack (which is now dead - lead weight) consisted of 12 large deep cycle batteries (DEKA 8G31), with a current cost of about $350 to $400 per battery. The battery pack and inverter were used to power the house "back in the day".
 
Jim_R said:
I don't know beans about generators, but I know my sister bought one "for peace of mind" after her power went out for several days a few years ago. Now I'm constantly hearing about her maintenance work on it: Periodically draining / refilling gas in the generator itself and in her emergency stockpile, cranking it for test runs, breaking her back hauling it in and out of its storage nook, etc. There has not yet been another power outage where it has come in handy. I question just how much "peace" she's getting out of that decision.

Maybe using avgas helps with the fuel going "stale", and you wouldn't be stockpiling fuel like my sister for extended runtime, but I wonder if there might still be other work required to keep that generator ready for use that makes it more trouble than it's worth, compared to occasional-use manual solutions.
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Convert the generator to propane. Easy peasy.
 
"Interested in being able to use generator to power hangar door."


Have you considered a soft start device?
Micro-Air offers a unit that allows a small generator to start and run a large motor.
I use a Micro-Air on my ground based RV to operate a 12,000 BTU air conditioner, all powered from a Honda EU2000 in the Eco mode.
 
Ok. Creative idea #21. Get a 12 volt 12000 pound off road winch (not the Middle Ages bar waitress type) and see if you can rope and pulley onto the door. Will be slow, but if it can pull a jeep right side up and drag it out of a ditch it should have enough to open your door.
 
WDD said:
Ok. Creative idea #21. Get a 12 volt 12000 pound off road winch (not the Middle Ages bar waitress type) and see if you can rope and pulley onto the door. Will be slow, but if it can pull a jeep right side up and drag it out of a ditch it should have enough to open your door.
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Yeah, but...that won't help powering the residence.
 
More ideas.

The lithium battery setup is interesting, but beyond the price range I am hoping for.

Propane gen set is interesting, as the fuel will not spoil and gum up the carb.

Large winch to pull door up. A concern with this idea is the concentrated loading on the header. At this time the hangar door loading is spread out across the overhead beam at multiple locations using large hinges. Prefer to keep the load distributed, as I suspect the structural engineering assumed during the design process.

Will look into the MicroAir concept. Looks interesting.

A new finding at the hangar. Upon closer inspection there is a large capacitor on the back side of the 1 HP Baldor motor (between the motor and hangar door). Is it possible that the capacitor is going bad, or maybe has gone bad? Is it possible to check a capacitor? Thanks for all ideas.
 
wsquare said:
A new finding at the hangar. Upon closer inspection there is a large capacitor on the back side of the 1 HP Baldor motor (between the motor and hangar door). Is it possible that the capacitor is going bad, or maybe has gone bad? Is it possible to check a capacitor? Thanks for all ideas.
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Kill the power to the motor. Using a screwdriver with an insulated handle, short the contacts on the capacitor to discharge it. When you remove the capacitor, it should have a microfarad rating on it, with a +/- percentage. Test the capacitor with a multimeter that has the ability to check microfarads (not all do).

Here's a YouTube video on testing capacitors:
 
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SoCal 182 Driver said:
Yeah, but...that won't help powering the residence.
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In which the thread and "the ask" needs to be re focused to "I need a house power back up that can also lift my hangar door".

So... buy a large whole house generator, wire in a transfer box.

Or, if you just want to open the hangar door and run a few other things in the house, buy this portable and plug into a propane tank.

www.homedepot.com

DUROMAX 13000/10500-Watt Dual Fuel Electric Start Gasoline/Propane Portable Home Power Back Up Generator with CO Alert Shutdown XP13000HX - The Home Depot

Dual Fuel with CO Alert Shutdown Sensor Gasoline Propane Portable Generator from DUROMAX is suitable to replace with an egift card or repair your product during coverage period.
www.homedepot.com
 
wsquare said:
Upon closer inspection there is a large capacitor on the back side of the 1 HP Baldor motor (between the motor and hangar door). Is it possible that the capacitor is going bad, or maybe has gone bad?
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It is very possible. AC units use start capacitors and many times when the AC isn't cooling that's the problem. Recently had the capacitor on the interior blower fan motor replaced because when the unit came on the motor would hum for a few seconds before starting to turn. New capacitor cured that completely. The good news is they are relatively inexpensive ...
 
OK. Going with the Duromax "BMF" 13000 unit. No more tinkering around. Price looks reasonable and propane is less maintenance. Lots of good ideas, but just like an aircraft, more power is better. Will check capacitor, keep the huge 6000W inverter, toss the old broken solar panels, and recycle the 12 large deep cycle batteries. Home Depot -- here I come... Thanks for all the good ideas.
 
I’d mount the batteries on the door, keep the cables short, the extra weight of the batteries is a rounding error compared to the door

Just make sure they are secured and obviously sealed batteries

Lots of lithium batteries for other uses that can be repurposed
 
wsquare said:
Something I don't understand. I can plug the power cord for the hangar door (very heavy cord) into the nearby 20 amp plug, and it will operate the door. But when I plug into my Honda 3000is gen set (which has 23.5 amp output continuous) it bogs down and trips the internal safety switch. Apparently the house electric power (and breaker) has a fair amount of ability to carry instantaneous surges.
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It absolutely does. The output impedance (internal ac resistance) of the transformer that powers your house is very low. It most likely will supply several hundred amps without a significant voltage drop. So the only voltage drop is in the wiring to the outlet. The breakers are designed to protect the wiring, but they'll let you draw significantly more than the max rated current before they trip. They even make breakers specifically designed for motors that allow high inrush...but even a normal breaker will usually let a motor start without tripping.

All perfectly safe. The breakers job is to protect the wiring from overheating and causing a fire. A high inrush current for a few seconds won't cause any problem because it's not long enough to bring the temps up.

Back to the door, I think you just need to sort out where you want to compromise. That's typically the thing that's involved in most engineering problems. No perfect solution, pick your poison. Lots of good idea on here.
 
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