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Johnsmitty1951

Filing Flight Plan
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May 3, 2017
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CptSmitty1951
I'm currently brainstorming ways to become a professional pilot and I would like some input. I'm 25, love flying (done flight sims for 13 years and rocked my discovery flight) and I'm certain I want to make a career out of this, but I'm limited financially. My current plan is to save money and go to school to become an ultrasound technician (they make great money in my area) and then use that income to leapfrog into professional flight training. However, if I can cut out the stepping stone and just go straight into flying, I will. I'm currently looking at aviation colleges but I need to know what time and financial constraints are like before I can jump into that. I'm poor and it's expensive to live here so I need to be able to work atleast 30 hours a week. I can have afternoons and nights off though.

My question is; has anyone here attended a flight college that can tell me about what a typical week is like during training and how much time I can expect to devote to flying and classes every week. Or, if there are any other recommended routes to becoming a pilot (excluding the military. Simply not an option for me)
 
Sounds like you have a good plan. Don't go into debt. Get some money then fly. I studied economics and flew on the side. I ended up with the same ratings as the kid that went to Riddle but I wasn't 100K in debt.
 
Do you think my age will disqualify me from flying in some of the bigger aircraft later? If everything works out I'm looking at about 32 before I can start flight training and I've heard that if you're over 30 when you start your chances of flying airlines plummets. My end goal dream job would be corporate jet flying but I'm sure I'll be happy doing whatever.
 
Also how did you do your training? Did you do it privately or through a college of some sort? I haven't the slightest idea how you get multi-engine time in jets without attending a college or university. My current goal is to become an MEII and I've got that path figured out, but I know I'll want to go farther I just don't know how I would do that
 
You can go ahead and start on your PPL now without being in college. It will save you a ton of coin if you just do it through a local flight school or club.
 
You can go ahead and start on your PPL now without being in college. It will save you a ton of coin if you just do it through a local flight school or club.

Well my plan right now is once I get a good job as an ultrasound tech to put money away for a little bit and work up to my CFI privately and hopefully transition into a full time CFI and do contract ultrasound work on the side. I'm hoping that will give me the resources I need to build hours towards a regional job or towards other certs. I simply don't have the income to support flight training right now
 
Having the ultra sound to fall back on is also good. You're one failed medical away from needing a new career. And airline jobs ebb and flow.
 
I started flying for a living at 36. I could have gone into the big iron majors but that is not what I wanted.

And good for you wanting to make money and pay for it yourself instead of asking others to pay for it.
 
Do you think my age will disqualify me from flying in some of the bigger aircraft later? If everything works out I'm looking at about 32 before I can start flight training and I've heard that if you're over 30 when you start your chances of flying airlines plummets. My end goal dream job would be corporate jet flying but I'm sure I'll be happy doing whatever.
Wouldn't worry about it too much. There will be tons of jobs available in the forth coming years for pilots of all disciplines.
 
OP: the military medical community has opportunities like this. Then, you get the training without paying for it. While on active duty use tuition assistance to complete a 4-yr degree. At the end of your enlistment, use GI bill for flight training at a Part 141 school. Speeds up your timeline by a couple of years and cuts a ton of costs.
 
Do you think my age will disqualify me from flying in some of the bigger aircraft later?

I know a couple of people that just got hired at a regional in their early 60s. I don't think that will be a problem.
 
Also how did you do your training? Did you do it privately or through a college of some sort? I haven't the slightest idea how you get multi-engine time in jets without attending a college or university. My current goal is to become an MEII and I've got that path figured out, but I know I'll want to go farther I just don't know how I would do that
You won't get jet time even if you attend a college. The multi-engine training you receive is from twin piston aircraft (i.e. Piper Seminole, TwinStar, etc.)

You build your multi-engine time in these types of airplanes and the jet (turbine) time will come afterwards when you get hired by an airline or chartering corporation.
 
You won't get jet time even if you attend a college. The multi-engine training you receive is from twin piston aircraft (i.e. Piper Seminole, TwinStar, etc.)

You build your multi-engine time in these types of airplanes and the jet (turbine) time will come afterwards when you get hired by an airline or chartering corporation.

So how do you get jet time, internship style? Do you just get all your certs, build your hours, and try to get a right seat for a regional?
 
The quickest way to accomplish what you want to do is to to get your PPL, instrument, commercial, and multi-engine rating. (The latter two can be combined but it will be more expensive that way.) I'm not even sure that being a CFI/MEI would be necessary given the current market conditions. Of course, that could change in a matter of months depending on the economy's health. And it's certainly not a bad thing by any means to become a CFI.

You sound like you'd be a good candidate for accelerated training programs. There are other independent schools that partner with colleges like Utah Valley to get you flight training and a degree. Might be worth considering.

Are you taking out a loan to go to ultrasound tech school?
 
I started flying for a living at 36. I could have gone into the big iron majors but that is not what I wanted.

And good for you wanting to make money and pay for it yourself instead of asking others to pay for it.

There is noone around to pay for me and I can't STAND the idea of taking handouts from people. Why did you avoid airlines? I'm not entirely sure I want to do airlines either. Something tells me I would miss the feeling of actually flying the plane. I did my discovery flight in a 172 that had a roll and climb autopilot and we tinkered with it and it bugged me to all hell taking my hands off the yoke. Super unnerving.
 
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So how do you get jet time, internship style? Do you just get all your certs, build your hours, and try to get a right seat for a regional?
You get a multi-engine rating and then start putting out applications to regional and corporate carriers. They may have a minimum time requirement in multi-engine aircraft (e.g., 25 hours) or they may be so desperate that they'll just pay for you to get that multi time. IIRC Republic Airlines in Indianapolis was paying applicants to rent planes to build their last 300 hours as recently as last year.
 
The quickest way to accomplish what you want to do is to to get your PPL, instrument, commercial, and multi-engine rating. (The latter two can be combined but it will be more expensive that way.) I'm not even sure that being a CFI/MEI would be necessary given the current market conditions. Of course, that could change in a matter of months depending on the economy's health. And it's certainly not a bad thing by any means to become a CFI.

You sound like you'd be a good candidate for accelerated training programs. There are other independent schools that partner with colleges like Utah Valley to get you flight training and a degree. Might be worth considering.

Are you taking out a loan to go to ultrasound tech school?

I will probably take out some small loans to help. I'll be saving up approx. Half of tuition over the next 6 months and school is only abput $15k. Given that entry level ultrasound techs make $45 right off the bat I should only be under about a year's worth of debt.
 
Wow... so many parallels. I feel like I was in your exact shoes when I was your age.

I'm currently brainstorming ways to become a professional pilot and I would like some input. I'm 25, love flying (done flight sims for 13 years and rocked my discovery flight) and I'm certain I want to make a career out of this, but I'm limited financially. My current plan is to save money and go to school to become an ultrasound technician (they make great money in my area) and then use that income to leapfrog into professional flight training.
My one advice is, don't give up on your dream!! I ended up with "golden handcuffs" so to speak and got to a point where I didn't want to give up the income and start from scratch financially and work my way up the seniority ladder at an airline. Flying for me became a hobby as a result of that.. but I often wonder what could have been. So if you do end up making "great money" don't lose sight of the big picture and your dreams

Do you think my age will disqualify me from flying in some of the bigger aircraft later?
That was my worry as well, but people at the time told me no. I mean, it's never technically too late, you just have to realize there will be a "start over" phase due to seniority
 
There are plenty of people who started later than you and still had successful careers. You don't need prior jet time. 25 hours multi engine piston and a pulse will get you hired at any regional.
 
Wow... so many parallels. I feel like I was in your exact shoes when I was your age.


My one advice is, don't give up on your dream!! I ended up with "golden handcuffs" so to speak and got to a point where I didn't want to give up the income and start from scratch financially and work my way up the seniority ladder at an airline. Flying for me became a hobby as a result of that.. but I often wonder what could have been. So if you do end up making "great money" don't lose sight of the big picture and your dreams


That was my worry as well, but people at the time told me no. I mean, it's never technically too late, you just have to realize there will be a "start over" phase due to seniority

When did you start training and what do you do now?

I'm trying my hardest to remind myself that the money is just a means to an end and the real goal will always be professional pilot. I'm trying to keep my life as free of responsibilty as I can until I become a pilot just so I don't get locked into being an ultrasound tech. That is honestly my biggest concern is that something will happen and I'll have no choice but to stick with my career and watch the planes from the ground.
 
There are plenty of people who started later than you and still had successful careers. You don't need prior jet time. 25 hours multi engine piston and a pulse will get you hired at any regional.

That is wild to me, I always figured the variables involved with jet engine management would bring a host of new certifications.

Which reminds me: is there a place on this forum I can lurk around and see technical discussions about prop pitch, jet management, meteorolgy, avionics, etc? I feel like I've hit a plateau with what I can learn from flight sims.
 
When did you start training and what do you do now?

I'm trying my hardest to remind myself that the money is just a means to an end and the real goal will always be professional pilot. I'm trying to keep my life as free of responsibilty as I can until I become a pilot just so I don't get locked into being an ultrasound tech. That is honestly my biggest concern is that something will happen and I'll have no choice but to stick with my career and watch the planes from the ground.
Use the money you earn doing your current job and put it towards flying. Once you get your commercial and CFI, you'll get paid to fly. Live frugally. Find ways you can cut your costs down.
 
That is wild to me, I always figured the variables involved with jet engine management would bring a host of new certifications.

Which reminds me: is there a place on this forum I can lurk around and see technical discussions about prop pitch, jet management, meteorolgy, avionics, etc? I feel like I've hit a plateau with what I can learn from flight sims.
Pilot's Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge is free online. It's an FAA publication.
 
So how do you get jet time, internship style? Do you just get all your certs, build your hours, and try to get a right seat for a regional?
As I said, the turbine (jet) time comes once you build enough multi-engine piston hours to qualify for a regional airline, Jordan said 25hrs is the number.

The regionals and small cargo gigs are the quickest ways to get into turbine aircraft. Corporate jobs will require much higher requirements in order to qualify for something like that.
 
When did you start training and what do you do now?
Always had a thing for aviation, first computer game was on DOS Comanche and I think I owned just about every version of MS Flight Sim that came out, plus many of the adds ons, etc. Saved up summer job money etc., and started flying when I was around 14... Thanks to all the MSFS time and my obsession with flying my PPL training I found to be relatively "easy" actually, it was more just self funding $$ aspect of it. As much as I loved flying my family and peers were never that supportive of it as a hobby or as a viable career choice, mainly because it is "dangerous" (ugh) and even though some legacy high seniority folks make bank you are generally limited in total upward $$ potential. This was also around 2004-2008 and the general feedback I was being given at the time was very grim. It was a tough life, live in crashpads, you're exhausted, and you make very little money, and the thread of being furloughed etc., was always looming, at least for the first several years of your career. I did tour some flying schools and laid out some financial roadmaps, etc., in my 20s but the divide between my "real" life and the alternate flying life grew until it got to a point where it just wasn't worth a serious thought. Do you really want to cut your income by 75% and wait 10 years to financially get back to where you are now, all the while pushing through a grueling schedule and moving around? (is the dialog I had). I now work in data science and live in an Excel/SQL/Tableau world and I enjoy the work and I like being able to go flying as a hobby

I'm trying my hardest to remind myself that the money is just a means to an end and the real goal will always be professional pilot. I'm trying to keep my life as free of responsibilty as I can until I become a pilot just so I don't get locked into being an ultrasound tech. That is honestly my biggest concern is that something will happen and I'll have no choice but to stick with my career and watch the planes from the ground.
^Yep, knew that feeling well, watching the Skyhawks, Pipers, and even the airliners cruise by overhead. As much as you can try and direct the course of your life things also happen that change them for you... family dynamics change, work opportunities change, you fall in love, etc.

**But realistically, unless you end up with a health disability flying is always an option, even if just as private GA pilot. There is value in that too, having a steady stable income, home every night for dinner, career flexibility, and the $$ left over to go flying as a hobby so you still get that thrill of flying. My favorite are the 100-300 nm cross countries. Far enough that driving is a pain but close enough that flying commercially doesn't make sense

Either way, don't get discouraged, stick to a plan and push ahead, sounds like you are a little more committed than I was and have a relatively clean course figured out. But remember that if things change and it doesn't pan out as you expected that doesn't necessarily mean bad things or that flying is out of the question

****HECK, and if this means anything one of our old temp's dads had a long and lucrative career in construction, then at 45 plowed through his ratings, flew for a small outfit, and is now flying at JetBlue... and he has a family and everything. So it is never too late!!
 
There is noone around to pay for me and I can't STAND the idea of taking handouts from people. Why did you avoid airlines? I'm not entirely sure I want to do airlines either. Something tells me I would miss the feeling of actually flying the plane. I did my discovery flight in a 172 that had a roll and climb autopilot and we tinkered with it and it bugged me to all hell taking my hands off the yoke. Super unnerving.

Truthfully the airline world just does not appeal to me at all. Nothing wrong with the airline life at all, and I have worked with people that all they want is to fly for a major. I wish them the best and hope they are happy. I am not used to wearing a tie and having clean hands. In short, I like to work and work hard.

If you want to fly for a living you will get used to the auto pilot. To carry passengers IFR you will have to have an approved A/P or a co-pilot, even in small planes, but that doesn't mean you have to use it all the time.
 
That is wild to me, I always figured the variables involved with jet engine management would bring a host of new certifications.

Which reminds me: is there a place on this forum I can lurk around and see technical discussions about prop pitch, jet management, meteorolgy, avionics, etc? I feel like I've hit a plateau with what I can learn from flight sims.
This FAA book has a chapter on Jet transition also, probably less technical, more practical:

https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/aviation/airplane_handbook/
 
Truthfully the airline world just does not appeal to me at all.
and that's kind of what I was gently alluding to in my post above yours. I grew up with a romantic notion of what it must be like to be a pilot, but the more people I talked to, even professional pilots, the more it kind of kept it just a dream for me. I almost rather it that way, than have tried it and been disappointed

If I can make enough money one day to have cabin class multi, or a TBM, that's my ultimate end game. At that point you're basically flying your own miniature airliner
 
That is wild to me, I always figured the variables involved with jet engine management would bring a host of new certifications.

Which reminds me: is there a place on this forum I can lurk around and see technical discussions about prop pitch, jet management, meteorolgy, avionics, etc? I feel like I've hit a plateau with what I can learn from flight sims.
Go to www.faa.gov and look at the many handbooks and manuals that are available to read and/or download. Hardly anything in aviation that hasn't has a book written about it. Haunt YouTube searching for appropriate videos.

Bob
 
YouTube has a tremendous amount of instructional value to it. I would say 50% of what I know about Excel and SQL databases (which are technical topics) I got from YouTube. I've been watching a ton of instrument flights on YouTube too and it really helps to make yourself familiar with procedures as you live vicariously through someone else
 
Pilot's Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge is free online. It's an FAA publication.

You've just made me a happy happy man.

Go to www.faa.gov and look at the many handbooks and manuals that are available to read and/or download. Hardly anything in aviation that hasn't has a book written about it. Haunt YouTube searching for appropriate videos.

Bob

Bob beat me to it. ALL of the ratings and what-not, have really decent FAA publications.

When you get down to brass tax, everything is based off of those.

In the pay book world, I'll plug Bob's gig here, he has some stuff published through ASA that's excellent and their stuff, once you've read all the FAA stuff, is also top notch. Good for focused study materials.

If you're thinking of teaching/CFI at all, make sure to read and absorb and picture yourself doing what both Kerschner and Durden talk about in their books, too.

And of course the quintessential flying book, Stick and Rudder by Langweishche. Still timeless after all these decades.
 
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