GDL-50r series AHRS + Ipad VS. Garmin Aera (bluetooth vs wired)

[Narwhal]

Hello,

Is there a significant advantage to using the wired connections from a GLD-50r to a Garmin portable device for AHRS/ADS-B-in reliability compared to bluetooth from a GDL-50r to an Ipad? I have only been using wifi from a Stratux to an Ipad on my present Aircraft and I do notice that I lose all signal a few times per flight for a few seconds, but that could be just due to the stratux or other signal problems, not necessarily due to the wireless nature of the signal.

I'm in the early stages of planning a panel for a Carbon Cub. One of my options is to do a basic VFR-only panel and use either an Ipad mini or a Garmin Aera series device in an airgizmos panel mount. The mounts for the two devices are interchangeable (same size cutout in the panel). The Ipad would seem to be the more practical choice, but considering this airplane would not have an attitude indicator or directional gyro with this type of panel, if there is a significant added reliability to have a physical wire between the GDL-50r AHRS and the Garmin Aera (760) portable, I might be willing to shell out the extra $1000 for the garmin portable over the Ipad mini.

Thanks in advance, just taking a shot in the dark to see if anyone has experience with a wired GDL-50 setup.

 

[GeorgeC]

No wired experience, but anecdotally I have never had bluetooth issues with my gdl39 (I've had its GPS glitch on me, but I ascribe that to poor antenna positioning), nor have I ever had wifi issues with the Appareo transponder. If you got a 375 or a 345, you wouldn't need the GDL at all.

 

[MBDiagMan]

You are not planning on flying IFR with this correct?

 

[Boyfalldown]

Hello,

Is there a significant advantage to using the wired connections from a GLD-50r to a Garmin portable device for AHRS/ADS-B-in reliability compared to bluetooth from a GDL-50r to an Ipad? I have only been using wifi from a Stratux to an Ipad on my present Aircraft and I do notice that I lose all signal a few times per flight for a few seconds, but that could be just due to the stratux or other signal problems, not necessarily due to the wireless nature of the signal.

I'm in the early stages of planning a panel for a Carbon Cub. One of my options is to do a basic VFR-only panel and use either an Ipad mini or a Garmin Aera series device in an airgizmos panel mount. The mounts for the two devices are interchangeable (same size cutout in the panel). The Ipad would seem to be the more practical choice, but considering this airplane would not have an attitude indicator or directional gyro with this type of panel, if there is a significant added reliability to have a physical wire between the GDL-50r AHRS and the Garmin Aera (760) portable, I might be willing to shell out the extra $1000 for the garmin portable over the Ipad mini.

Thanks in advance, just taking a shot in the dark to see if anyone has experience with a wired GDL-50 setup.

I put a gdl50r in my skylane and love it. I hard wired it to a 660 (in an air gizmo) and use Bluetooth With my iPad.

Hardwired is great as the 660 is always powered and charged, it to mention I hate wires all over the place. To me the 660is a great addition to ForeFlight, not a replacement. Most of the time I leave the 660 on its traffic screen and leave the iPad for navigation.

 

[Stewartb]

My many year history with a GDL39-3D is flawless as long as the updates are done prior to beginning a flight. Today I used velcro around the perimeter of my Aera 500-something and installed the iPad mini right over the top. It works perfectly.

 

[asicer]

The Ipad would seem to be the more practical choice

In a few years if the iPad breaks, you might be limited to hunting for a used one. If the aera breaks, you might still be able to buy a new one from Garmin. If the aera battery dies, it's a 10 second swap with your Virb battery. The iPad doesn't do as well in heat and sun either. On the other hand, you could buy a few iPads with aera money. You can't stream youtube videos on the aera either.

significant added reliability to have a physical wire between the GDL-50r AHRS and the Garmin Aera (760) portable

I personally don't think there is any added reliability with either Bluetooth or RS232. Both have failure modes.

 

[Stewartb]

There’s not enough room for the iPad Mini in the Cub so I use my iPhone XS Max. Bluetoothed from the G3X.

Some guys will talk theory based on what they’ve read or heard. My posts are a pirep.

 

[Stewartb]

The cool thing about a GDL50R is that it has ADHRS. the 39R does not, and swapping them isn’t plug and play. But the G3X talks (Bluetooth) to my devices so all is good, but a GDL 50R would add a layer of redundancy that I don’t have. Still, my stuff has worked flawlessly.

 

[Narwhal]

Ok, thanks for the continued help all! It sounds like there is no big loss if I were to just rely on the bluetooth connection for AHRS.

You are not planning on flying IFR with this correct?

No, I would not be able to comply with 91.205(d) using a portable with bluetooth for attitude/gyro information as far as I undertand it, so it would be VFR only.

 

[MBDiagMan]

In a few years if the iPad breaks, you might be limited to hunting for a used one. If the aera breaks, you might still be able to buy a new one from Garmin. If the aera battery dies, it's a 10 second swap with your Virb battery. The iPad doesn't do as well in heat and sun either. On the other hand, you could buy a few iPads with aera money. You can't stream youtube videos on the aera either.

I personally don't think there is any added reliability with either Bluetooth or RS232. Both have failure modes.

Okay, so are you willing to bet your life on that?

I am retired from a career in the automation and controls industry, most of that in the software side of that technology although my education was on the hardware side. For real time communication in an automation environment, communication code and protocols must be much more defensive and redundant, not to mention faster. The mission is more critical. (The faster comment applies to the state of technology of decades ago, and probably no longer applies.)

I have never looked into the protocols being used in avionics, but I fully expect that they are more robust than the garden variety Bluetooth connection that you use to get your kids pictures to Grandma.

The Aera doesn’t fall into an approved IFR solution either. Considering it as a solution for IFR flight would also be a mistake. There is a reason that it is not approved for such use. Is it better than a pad? Maybe in some ways, but just like a pad, you should always consider it an aid, no more approved than a pad. It is NOT an approved IFR solution.

For IFR flight, something I personally consider to be a critical mission, I will put my trust in the permanently installed panel hardware and software that has been approved for the mission thank you very much.

 

[asicer]

Okay, so are you willing to bet your life on that?

I think we're making different comparisons here. OP was comparing one unapproved VFR setup with another unapproved VFR setup. An approved IFR solution for intentional flight into IMC is a whole other conversation and is not what is being discussed. Besides, the aircraft in question is a Cub.

Leaving out approved IFR (because that is not the question the OP raised), I will still maintain that Bluetooth is not significantly more or less reliable than RS232.

 

[Narwhal]

Yeah, this is a VFR-only panel discussion. I was initially interested in putting an IFR panel in the carbon cub but the factory is quoting me +$50,000 for that ($30,000 for a G3X touch and $20,000 for a GNC-355 and G5). This would add 20% to the cost of the airplane for capability I'd probably use less than 5% of the time. I think I can get by on a special VFR clearance on the few days I might want to fly when my towered home-field has a ceiling just a few hundred feet below VFR weather. Downsides to the VFR panel are relying on bluetooth AHRS for attitude and needing a magnetic compass installed on the windshield, which is a slightly annoying obstruction to field of view.

All in all, it sounds like a GDL-50 talking to an Ipad over bluetooth is probably the way to go. If the Ipad fails then I can always just easily fly pilotage on 95% of my flights. The main reason I want a digital display at all is for ADS-B traffic.

 

[Stewartb]

Where is your home field? Merrill?

 

[Narwhal]

Where is your home field? Merrill?

Yep!

 

[Stewartb]

I’ve never gone to Merrill on a Special but have into Hood many times. I don’t like orbiting around Pt Mac with other planes waiting to be called in. It doesn’t happen often so not a big enough deal to equip for. I generally stay away and wait for better conditions.

 

[Narwhal]

I’ve never gone to Merrill on a Special but have into Hood many times. I don’t like orbiting around Pt Mac with other planes waiting to be called in. It doesn’t happen often so not a big enough deal to equip for. I generally stay away and wait for better conditions.

I did it once into Merrill in the 182 coming from Palmer when there were some thin layers at 1000-2000 feet extending from the mountains to about Muldoon Rd and I couldn't maintain legal cloud clearances in the Class D/E airspace unless I was going to do a spiraling descent right on top of PAMR. It seemed pretty painless, after I called up at Eagle River approach just cleared me to the airport and handed me off to tower.

 

[Stewartb]

1000’ and 3 miles. There can be few clouds below that. From the north Hood SVFR operates around AIA traffic. 2-3-4 planes often stack up waiting to be let in. The rule is to always maintain visual. That’s nearly impossible but if you lose visual with the other guys they send you away so guys don’t always tell the truth. I don’t enter in if other planes are ahead of me.

 

[schmookeeg]

Just to add a pirep, my GDL50 has never once lost connection with my iPad. I generally favor wired over wireless solutions as a rule, but I haven't had reason to root this one out yet.

 

[Scott MacMoyle]

Im a cheap skate so I didnt want to shell out the extra 100 bucks for the GDL50R. I have the GDL50 with a bare wire connector. This allows for 2 bluetooth connections and 2 wired connetions (I use for my Garmin 796). I have the GDL50 behind the panel connected to a glareshield antenna for GPS and a transponder antenna on the belly with a BNC to MCX adaptor for ADS B in. It powers up when it senses power and shuts down if there is no groundspeed or bluetooth connection so I never need to see it. You can check its status on your device.

 

[WDD]

Those costs seem very high. I bet you could take your new plane somewhere else after you get it and have the garmin hardware installed cheaper.

I would go for the Garmin tablet because it is sunlight readable. Don't panel mount it, but just keep in a ram mount. You don't want a permanent hole in your panel for an out of date tablet in 5 years.

 

[Narwhal]

I am thinking I could get away with a panel mount because the factory uses air gizmos:
http://airgizmos.3dcartstores.com/Panel-Docks_c_1.html
http://airgizmos.3dcartstores.com/Panel-Docks_c_1.html

They make a bunch of flush panel mounts for handhelds (most of their mounts have the same panel cutout dimensions and hardware) so in theory it would be easy to change to a new device by buying a new mount from them. In practice I don’t know how difficult swapping mounts would be. I have seen these in a lot of Cubs up here and the airgizmos mounts seem pretty popular.

 

[GeorgeC]

There’s not enough room for the iPad Mini in the Cub so I use my iPhone XS Max.

Same here, I stuck a RAM ball to my panel, mounted the iPhone Xs and called it good. Still kinda want an Aera 660...

 

[Silent Reader]

I have the GDL50 with a bare wire connector. This allows for 2 bluetooth connections and 2 wired connetions

GDL 50 allows for more than 2 Bluetooth connections, I connected 3 devices (iPhone, iPad-mini & iPad). Enabling more than 2 connection could be done via Garmin Pilot App: HOME->CONNEXT->GDL 50/50R tab, Turn Compatibility Mode OFF :