Gauges VS Glass

bbchien said:
Ron, I'm giving up. This enthusiastic fellow is just tooo short on facts.

I think he believes SVT will make him able to clear a mountain in IMC and ice, as oposed to boots and turbochargers or turbines.

I've wasted enough time.....
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Was this supposed to be a PM?

This is like being back in Jr. High (last year in my case).

If you want to stop on the "is it cheating" thread, just say the word, TO ME.
 
Alexb2000 said:
We should all remember that "glass" came out in the early 2000's, it didn't get here yesterday. If the reliability wasn't there the whole world would know about it by now. We should also remember that there are plenty of instrument failures in 6 pack airplanes as well. Raise your hand if you've ever lost a vacuum pump.
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I have lost a vacuum pump but I have also had a bad AHRS (probably came that way from the factory) and a failed ADC, the latter two in an airplane that is currently less than four years old. Granted, the airplane has two of each but there was still a loss of some functions. I don't think many small singles have dual AHRSs and ADCs, though.
 
Everskyward said:
I have lost a vacuum pump but I have also had a bad AHRS (probably came that way from the factory) and a failed ADC, the latter two in an airplane that is currently less than four years old. Granted, the airplane has two of each but there was still a loss of some functions. I don't think many small singles have dual AHRSs and ADCs, though.
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The only thing common on my Avidyne R9 system is the pitot static part. Both displays are exactly the same and have dual ADAHRS, COMMS, etc. There are dual temp probes and magnetometers as well. Everything is constantly cross checked too. Compared to flying the 172 with a single AI, I now have 3. I worry a lot more about pilot failure than glass panel failure. One thing not brought up a lot is how failures have changed. When a PFD goes down you get red X marks across the affected readings. When a vacuum driven AI goes bad it degrades slowly so that it is often too late once recognized. On a dual ADAHRS plane you receive a warning and the system auto switches to the other ADAHRS.
 
peppy said:
On a dual ADAHRS plane you receive a warning and the system auto switches to the other ADAHRS.
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We got no warning and it was so intermittent and mysterious we had to take the airplane back to the factory for them to diagnose the problem. Out of the blue both autopilots and both yaw damps would fail and the flight director would go away. They tried some other fixes before settling on the AHRS. They kept asking if we were getting warnings or red Xs but we weren't.
 
Why does it seem like everything I post on this board turns into an argument?

I left the "red" board for that reason and came over to POA. Our fellow pilots seem to think that everyone MUST agree with them or it is "hit the road, fellow."

How sad.

Anyway, thanks to all of you for being honest and giving me your opinion. I didn't want to argue, just try and get a better feeling about Glass cockpits. Right now, I am afraid of them.

I will stay on my steam gauges for awhile and transition to Glass maybe later.

Thanks,
Terry :)
 
Terry said:
Why does it seem like everything I post on this board turns into an argument?

I left the "red" board for that reason and came over to POA. Our fellow pilots seem to think that everyone MUST agree with them or it is "hit the road, fellow."

How sad.

Anyway, thanks to all of you for being honest and giving me your opinion. I didn't want to argue, just try and get a better feeling about Glass cockpits. Right now, I am afraid of them.

I will stay on my steam gauges for awhile and transition to Glass maybe later.
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My aircraft had the traditional six, as well as the Garmin 696 portable. Many of my friends & aquaintences , have "glass" because the cost for experimentals is much less than certified. I've met no one who has been using glass for a decent length of time...........that cares to go back to the six pac. And this includes a number of pilots over 65 years of age.

edit: I'm about 61 myself
 
Terry - I am a student pilot who flys in a C172 with steam gauges and NO GPS. (they have others with less hours and GPS, but I like the older C172)
I do this by choice... however.. I also fly in my friends 182 with G1000 glass. I am also a tech geek with an iPad/iPhone/iEtc....

I am learning to fly "old school" with only the 6 pack by choice. I like to know what to do when it all "goes horribly wrong" but I also LOVE flying with the G1000. At the end of the day... fly with what makes you feel safest. I look forward to buying a plane with a G1000 in it, but I am enjoying learning to fly the plane with gauges as it tells me why the glass is the way that it is... (I still try to "touch" the screen to getting info... silly buttons)

Your initial question was a good one. I do not think one is "safer" than the other. As at the end of the day it is the PILOT who makes the plane safe. Some pilots want the greater information provided by the glass and others prefer eyes and radios. What ever plane i have will have TCAS. But that is me...

My CFI laughs because I have more gadgets than anyone she has ever seen and yet I refuse to use them at all in the cockpit....

I can see both sides of this discussion... but I like the trend of moving toward the technology.... oh btw... the C182 with the G1000 also has three steam gauges in the panel as backups... (Airspeed, VSI, Altimeter)
 
We got no warning and it was so intermittent and mysterious we had to take the airplane back to the factory for them to diagnose the problem. Out of the blue both autopilots and both yaw damps would fail and the flight director would go away. They tried some other fixes before settling on the AHRS. They kept asking if we were getting warnings or red Xs but we weren't.
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My point exactly. I have nothing against glass (in fact I really like my handheld GPS), but I am still nervous about trusting my life to computer chips based on my experience with computers. Then again, I am a dinosaur!
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somorris said:
My point exactly. I have nothing against glass (in fact I really like my handheld GPS), but I am still nervous about trusting my life to computer chips based on my experience with computers. Then again, I am a dinosaur!
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I'm not nervous at all about using glass it's just that it's not exactly the panacea that I think some people believe it is. Very early on after getting the airplane I got used to thinking of it as a computer with wings which sometimes needs to be rebooted! :)

Beyond that, I think the complexity of some of the methods used to program the navigation can lead to operator error or confusion, especially among pilots who only fly sporadically.
 
Maybe I just don't see it, but why is there all the controversy?

Every board every month has a running thread on glass vs. steam with some strong feelings that rival religion. Not that the lines are clear because you can mix and match a panel any way you want today. Of course the new certified aircraft are going to have glass, why should that matter. Personally I believe we're in the greatest time ever for avionics. You can put a full IFR glass panel in your cub, or you can just have needle ball and airspeed.

Having the choices is what its all about and we should be glad to have so many good ones.
 
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