Garmin WAAS upgrade upgrade
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Jeff S KDTW
Pre-takeoff checklist
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Jeff S KDTW
We have the new software in our 430W, which was in for service due to lost sat coverage. So far, so good.
kevin47881
Final Approach
We just got the 430 w/ upgrade installed this week. I'm flying tomorrow so I should have a good idea of the changes.
Pegasus
Pre-Flight
My upgrade/upgrade on my 430w is scheduled for Friday 12/14. Hopefully they have tested this version very well. Many times when you correct one problem you create two new ones. Keeping my fingers crossed.
Pegasus
Pre-Flight
Still didn't address no Victor Airways.....
sanchezpaulk
Filing Flight Plan
Good morning Henning. I'm hoping that the "someday" solution for Victor/Jet airways in the Garmin GNS430W/GNS530W is different than what is included in the G1000. Airways can be inserted but the exit point of the airway has to scrolled thru all waypoints (sorted by distance from entrance, not alphabetically).
And then after the airway has been inserted in the flight plan you then discover that the intersections were not included, only VORs and change of course points.
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Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see the big deal about no victor airways. Airways are bound by the VOR's, and the airways that have doglegs have intersections at the dogleg. I just program the VOR's and intersections to fly airways.
What am I missing???
sanchezpaulk
Filing Flight Plan
How long would it take you to enter the following clearance to Islip (ISP) NY from Gatlinburg (GKT)? Each waypoint VOR is 3 characters (which would require on the average 13 turns of the small knob for each letter, 3 x 13 = 39 turns of small knob) and each intersection would be 5 characters (5 x 13 = 75 turns of small knob).
Oh and by the way, at Roanoke VOR (ROA) you'll get an amended clearance and get another amended-amended clearance with each hand-off to the next sector. I count 42 waypoints on that route.
A Garmin GNS480 is entered as shown.
WHINS V16 ROA V473 MOL V143 MRB V3 EMI V419 V210 ARD V445 V123 LGA
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OK, so it's all about spinning the knobs. I guess I don't usually fly longer, more complicated airways routes.
bstratt
Cleared for Takeoff
Getting this thread back on track, if you get the upgrade, how do you pick up the XM weather?
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As always, you need to add one of these to a 430/530 to get XM weather:
https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?pID=228
http://www.gulf-coast-avionics.com/detail/6363/Avionics/Garmin/GDL-69/
Expen$ive, for what it does. We chose to get a 496 for weather and as a very useful battery backup GPS in the event of power failure. 496 is a little over 1 AMU less than the above solution.
kevin47881
Final Approach
I flew Sunday night with the now WAAS upgraded 430. Flew one GPS approach and it went flawlessly. I do like the vertical guidance aspect of the upgrade and found that it kept me about one dot higher than the ILS GS.
poadeleted20
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Isn't there a way to link a 496 to a 430/540 to get weather? Or does that interface only transfer route data, not allow transfer of the weather data to the installed unit?
Areeda
Pattern Altitude
I beleive the transfer is only 1 way 430/530 -> 496 and only the current route is sent.
I've alway thought that since you can link the 496 to your flight planning software and upload flight plans that it would be a nice feature to go the other way.
I think somehow the "we can't trust data from a non-TSO'ed unit" mentality won the debate on this one.
Joe
bjohnson
Line Up and Wait
I have also been told this by a local avionics shop.
AirBaker
Pattern Altitude
Yeah the x96's won't send anything to the x30's.
poadeleted20
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Well, even with the cost to put in the docking cradle, it's still a lot cheaper route than putting in a GDL-69.
Areeda
Pattern Altitude
Unbeliever
Pre-takeoff checklist
How does the 480 do Victor airway to Victor airway changes?
For example, Joe and I were on a lesson and listed our equipment as /G, and our clearance included the following snippet (L3 chart):
VNY V186 V264 POM
Edit: actually, that's not true. My memory just popped up FIM V186 V264 POM
We accepted the clearance since V186 and V264 do intersect. The problem came when we decided to do that flight as a GPS lesson. "What's the problem?" you ask. Well while V186 and V264 do intersect, there's no named fix at that point. We had to manually define a waypoint using the intersection of two radials, easily enough. (after Joe made sure he was using the right VORs *grin*)
It sounds like the G1000 would fail on that clearance unless you can add a manual waypoint to both intersecting airways.
--Carlos V.
For example, Joe and I were on a lesson and listed our equipment as /G, and our clearance included the following snippet (L3 chart):
VNY V186 V264 POM
Edit: actually, that's not true. My memory just popped up FIM V186 V264 POM
We accepted the clearance since V186 and V264 do intersect. The problem came when we decided to do that flight as a GPS lesson. "What's the problem?" you ask. Well while V186 and V264 do intersect, there's no named fix at that point. We had to manually define a waypoint using the intersection of two radials, easily enough. (after Joe made sure he was using the right VORs *grin*)
It sounds like the G1000 would fail on that clearance unless you can add a manual waypoint to both intersecting airways.
--Carlos V.
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AirBaker
Pattern Altitude
And it has a better screen than the 530/430 series!
jwriteclub
Line Up and Wait
I thought that they were supposed to avoid issuing clearances where the intersection of airways was NOT a named waypoint.
~ Christopher
~ Christopher
I'm flying Bob Geraces T-310R single pilot, SoCal approach ammends my clearance as I clear the mountains at Big Bear on descent doing about 210 kts, they give me about 5 victor airways that consists of well over 20 VORs and intersection doglegs. Long Beach is in low low IMC about 12 minutes away with about 2 minutes to my first turn. 530/MX-20 is now useless because there is no way that I can program the route quick enough especially given the retarded way you input into the 530s (that user interface is a bad joke) not to mention having to look up every waypoint on the chart so I can put it in. What do you think happenned? That's right, kicked it to NAV mode and and used the SL-30 for getting my intersect bearings and just dialed in the freqs off the chart, just like I did 20 years ago with Kx 170s that you can basically get for free now. $30k out the freaking window because of a missing feature and p-poor user interface. You pay this kind of money to reduce workload and increase situational awareness, not to increase workload and reduce situational awareness. After that inciden, there is no way I'd buy a 430/530.
poadeleted20
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It was never an issue before there were GPS's (my first 23 years of IFR flying). Now the FAA's trying to create 5-letter semi-pronouncable waypoints at every V-airway crossing. I suppose they'll catch up -- eventually.
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OK, OK, white flag, uncle, I give up! Got it.
But I'll still make due with my 430, since the plane already has it.
flyersfan31
Touchdown! Greaser!
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Freiburgfan31
G1000 Victor airway interface, while not ideal, is still world's better than the 430/530 without. No experience with the 480, but I have flown the Chelton Flightlogic system, where you can just enter "V246" instead of the "connect the dots" G1000 method. Better, but not a dealbreaker.
Life is MUCH better with Victor Airways in the G1000.
jwriteclub
Line Up and Wait
My response is one of scale. In the 310, you probably want a 480 or something else with a more FMSish interface.
For VFR and occasional IFR in a 172, the 430 is a better choice. Simple to use and cheap.
A lot of people never even use the flight plan feature in the 430.
~ Christopher
For VFR and occasional IFR in a 172, the 430 is a better choice. Simple to use and cheap.
A lot of people never even use the flight plan feature in the 430.
~ Christopher
stingray
Line Up and Wait
Henning keep in mind I don't fly airways, but what is the difference between putting in each freq on the 170 and entering next VOR or waypoint in DirTo on the 530 as you approach current VOR. It can be done well ahead of time then just hit enter enter as you pass.
Just trying to learn.
Dan
The difference is spin spin spin spin push spin spin spin spin spin push spin spin spin spin push spin spin spin spin spin push spin spin spin spin push spin spin spin spin spin push spin spin spin spin push spin spin spin spin spin push spin spin spin spin push spin spin spin spin spin push spin spin spin spin push push and that is one intersection multiply that by 22.Dialing in a freq is spin spin spin spin push. It can only be done ahead of time if you know the clearance that's going to be given to you. In SoCal and in the NE corridor you'll notice a lot of doglegged Victor airways (and they don't give "Direct" clearances, you might have one 200 miles away, but it will be ammended before you get there) and there are legs that you literally don't have time to spin in the next intersection. combine that with it taking all your time and concentration to do. Tried hand flying in IMC and programming 530? That's not a good thing. What is annoying is that Garmin has a box that does it right that they bought and it has a reasonably simple user interface compared to the 430/530. Garmin makes good hardware, but their software sucks, same thing with their marine stuff as well.
stingray
Line Up and Wait
So most of the time you are on the same freq just flying a different radial? or to a different radial. I better get out an enroute chart and look it up some.
Dan
bjohnson
Line Up and Wait
I haven't tried this on my 430 but can you use the nearest function while en route to enter close way points into the FPL? If so this would save a lot of the spin spin spin spin spin spin push spin spin spin spin push spin spin spin spin spin push
Correct, you fly down one radial with the other tuned to the intersecting radial and turn on it, the set the last radio to the next....
Look at the LA enroute for SoCal and see how many intersections there are, you may not be heading to the first or even first 10. It's just too much distraction single pilot in IMC to be safe, especially if you don't have a functioning A/P.
TangoWhiskey
Touchdown! Greaser!
You buy a Columbia 350/400 with the Garmin G1000 and enter it with the keypad...
I hate all the knob twisting too. They have all those softkeys across the bottom, unused, on the G1000 during VOR waypoint insertion. They should have used them to let you page back and forth (left and right softkeys) with intersections and intersecting airways listed above the remaining softkeys for quick one-press selection...The system is very powerful, but I fear it was designed by software engineers, not human factors engineers.
stingray
Line Up and Wait
I will look up a LA SoCal route. I would do about the same with GPS. DirTo, to the end or distant VOR on the Airway. Then just monitor as I pass each waypoint. or tune each intersect in just as you do on the second radio. The nearest page will tell you when you get to each intersect on the GPS.
Can MS 2004 be forced to give you airway's and change them on route?
Dan
Give it a shot, thing is, since the 430/530 doesn't have the Victor airways in its database, you'll still have to look for every intersection on the chart, same as with regular radios and then scroll through. I don't know about you, but if I just spent $12k on a moving map Nav/Com/GPS unit to reduce my workload, this would really torque my nut. If you want just a VFR box, the 530 is a nice one.
stingray
Line Up and Wait
Yeh I understand that all right. I do just fine with my 250XL, not much different than the 430 I used to have. I have better luck with my EFB for most of the charting and routing.
Dan
n20junkie
Pre-takeoff checklist
I think that garmin needed to come out with a keypad for the 430/530 long long ago, with the knobs being used soley as a backup. Its just insane that they try to do everything with 2 spinny knobs, its so time consuming, and such a pain. Every time I fly a 430/530 plane, I think about how easy my POS plane is with up front digital nav/coms. A 430 just takes too dam long to input any information.
flyingcheesehead
Touchdown! Greaser!
Garmin's had the keypad out for quite a while, it's just that most of the airplane manufacturers don't put it in. In fact, I think Columbia is the only one that does!
TMetzinger
Final Approach
That keypad is for the G1000, and it was a columbia "exclusive" for a while, at least in the pistons - the Mustang has a similar deal. Now that Cessna owns Columbia, I wonder if we'll see the keypad showing up in the bigger Cessnas? The Caravan is getting G1000 next.