Garmin Portable ADS-B

You still need to plan and the in-flight display may be iPad, so they do not really compete. I know a guy who wants to buy GDL39, so I'll report soon, hopefuly. He plans to use a panel 696 that he already has, and the iPad.
 
Notice that it only detects ADS-B out traffic. 98% of the GA fleet has no ADS-B out but a Mode C transponder. You will need the GTS-800 to detect the Mode C traffic.

As for weather I will still keep my XM\WX. Works on the ground and in the Bahamas. With XM I know what weather I will be facing while taxing so I can plan my heading to avoid the approaching storm. With ADS-B WX you will likely be heading into the approaching storm with no wx data. Not to mention that the ADS-B WX updates are much longer than those on XM.

José
 
Awe man , I just ordered my stratus last night. I may just send it back now since the weather will work with my 560 .
 
Piloto said:
Notice that it only detects ADS-B out traffic. 98% of the GA fleet has no ADS-B out but a Mode C transponder. You will need the GTS-800 to detect the Mode C traffic.

As for weather I will still keep my XM\WX. Works on the ground and in the Bahamas. With XM I know what weather I will be facing while taxing so I can plan my heading to avoid the approaching storm. With ADS-B WX you will likely be heading into the approaching storm with no wx data. Not to mention that the ADS-B WX updates are much longer than those on XM.

José
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But it receives both UAT and 1090ES frequencies, so in areas if FIS-B and TIS-B FAA broadcasts, you will get all mode c traffic information. Status only receives UAT frequency for FIS-B data, and I understand that means no traffic.

Unit looks like competition for Stratus /ForeFlight, or Garmin / Garmin pilot app.
 
AOPA has an article about it on their web site. They commented that the weather doesn't really kick in until you are airborne. Tough for making a last minute go/no go call.
 
TedR3 said:
Just saw this:

https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?cID=272&pID=93601

Garmin ADS-B Weather and Traffic for $799 on Ipad and Garmin Portables.

This may spell trouble for Foreflight?
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I love the polish and chart data of ForeFlight, but they are falling way behind in functionality as a navigator. I sure hope that they have a big update soon. It appears that they did make a miscalculation with the traffic on Stratus. Documentation is good, and support is fantastic. ForeFlight strikes me as a very "professional" program from a very professional organization, but that isn't going to sustain them if they don't take some risk. The competition is strengthening.

Garmin needs to clean up the bugs with Pilot, but I suspect that will happen. It is nice that the GDL39 is compatible with older portables like the 396/496 as well.


JKG
 
Ghery said:
AOPA has an article about it on their web site. They commented that the weather doesn't really kick in until you are airborne. Tough for making a last minute go/no go call.
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That isn't so much a problem if you have Internet service and/or a cellular-equipped tablet. I believe that WingX is the only "major" competitor that can't display Internet weather on the moing map (nor can they provide NOTAMs or PIREPs apart from a DUATS briefing.)


JKG
 
JGoodish said:
That isn't so much a problem if you have Internet service and/or a cellular-equipped tablet. I believe that WingX is the only "major" competitor that can't display Internet weather on the moing map (nor can they provide NOTAMs or PIREPs apart from a DUATS briefing.)
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Last year, I had the plane in Montana, where there was no cell phone coverage for the three days I was there. XM weather worked perfectly, as we did have to skirt weather on the way home. ADS-B wouldn't have mattered though, as there is little to no coverage through most of Montana, Idaho, Wyoming, & Utah.

L.Adamson
 
Piloto said:
Notice that it only detects ADS-B out traffic. 98% of the GA fleet has no ADS-B out but a Mode C transponder. You will need the GTS-800 to detect the Mode C traffic.

As for weather I will still keep my XM\WX. Works on the ground and in the Bahamas. With XM I know what weather I will be facing while taxing so I can plan my heading to avoid the approaching storm. With ADS-B WX you will likely be heading into the approaching storm with no wx data. Not to mention that the ADS-B WX updates are much longer than those on XM.

José
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Wha.....?? That's not been my experience. WX on the ground? Have y'all heard of a cell phone plan? You know, the kind that you carry around with or without airplane ownership....Works like a charm to take a look at that bad 'ol weather on any podunk airport with at least G band reception. I simply can't beat the utility of internet access on my cell phone when I can satisfy the mission of preflight planning on the tarmac, to include filing no less, for no more money than I already fork over in order to facebook my grandma (may she rest in peace).

As to update lag. I did one of my tri-monthly trips the other day coming back through good ol Texas popcorn skies and took a couple of snapshots. The skyradar worked as advertised. It was my first trip needing it and it delivered like a champ. Update lags were no more than 5-10 minutes. I mean for a strategic inflight tool taxpayer subsidized no less, you just can't beat the value.

True, I don't fly to the Bahamas, I guess I'd be out of luck then. :rolleyes2:
IMG_1265.PNG

IMG_1266.PNG
 
BillTIZ said:
But it receives both UAT and 1090ES frequencies, so in areas if FIS-B and TIS-B FAA broadcasts, you will get all mode c traffic information. Status only receives UAT frequency for FIS-B data, and I understand that means no traffic.

Unit looks like competition for Stratus /ForeFlight, or Garmin / Garmin pilot app.
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To receive traffic data the ground station (either UAT or TIS-B) needs to receive a traffic data request from the airborne ADS-B out transponder or UAT transceiver. The GDL39 does not transmit this request either on 1090 or 978MHz. As far as receiving mode C on 1090 MHz it will not be able to show its azimuth since there is no directional antenna on the GDL39. Also keep in mind that all altitude reporting is barometric. So in order to determine accurate traffic relative altitude the GDL39 would need to know your baro altitude (29.92"). If you just rely on the traffic indicated baro altitude you could have an altitude discrepancy of 1000 feet when comparing with your corrected own altimeter.

José
 
hindsight2020 said:
Wha.....?? That's not been my experience. WX on the ground? Have y'all heard of a cell phone plan? You know, the kind that you carry around with or without airplane ownership....Works like a charm to take a look at that bad 'ol weather on any podunk airport with at least G band reception. I simply can't beat the utility of internet access on my cell phone when I can satisfy the mission of preflight planning on the tarmac, to include filing no less, for no more money than I already fork over in order to facebook my grandma (may she rest in peace).

As to update lag. I did one of my tri-monthly trips the other day coming back through good ol Texas popcorn skies and took a couple of snapshots. The skyradar worked as advertised. It was my first trip needing it and it delivered like a champ. Update lags were no more than 5-10 minutes. I mean for a strategic inflight tool taxpayer subsidized no less, you just can't beat the value.

True, I don't fly to the Bahamas, I guess I'd be out of luck then. :rolleyes2:
View attachment 26788

View attachment 26789
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I noticed that on your first picture the NEXRAD (lower left corner data field) last update was 35 minutes old and on the second 1 hour and 25 minutes old. This is what the NTSB report was referring to. I have never seen on the XM NEXRAD older than 6 minutes.

José
 
Piloto said:
ADS-B WX you will likely be heading into the approaching storm with no wx data. Not to mention that the ADS-B WX updates are much longer than those on XM.

José
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heading into the storm is not a plan:no:
 
$800 buys a lot of XM weather.
 
Piloto said:
Notice that it only detects ADS-B out traffic. 98% of the GA fleet has no ADS-B out but a Mode C transponder. You will need the GTS-800 to detect the Mode C traffic.

José
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Not exactly correct.

In order for the GDL39 to receive mode C traffic, several things have to be true:

1) Your aircraft or a nearby one has to have ADSB-Out installed and operating.

2) The mode C target has to be in the radar service volume.

3) Your aircraft needs to be in the ground station service volume and the GDL39 must be receiving the ground station.
 
John Collins said:
Not exactly correct.

In order for the GDL39 to receive mode C traffic, several things have to be true:

1) Your aircraft or a nearby one has to have ADSB-Out installed and operating.

2) The mode C target has to be in the radar service volume.

3) Your aircraft needs to be in the ground station service volume and the GDL39 must be receiving the ground station.
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You are correct John. Since 98% of the GA fleet is not ADS-B out equipped your chances of being close to one that is equipped is less than 2% in covered areas. And 0% in not covered areas.

José
 
Jose,

I was primarily responding to your claim that one needed a GTS800 to see mode C traffic. One could install an ADSB Out in their aircraft for much less money, particularly if they already had a GTX330, as it would be a $1200 upgrade. But I agree that sans an ADSB Out capability, the mode C targets are not reliably available without an active TCAD/TCAS system, and only a TCAD/TCAS will detect mode C when all of the conditions I stated are not met, for example in the traffic pattern at most GA airports.
 
Ghery said:
AOPA has an article about it on their web site. They commented that the weather doesn't really kick in until you are airborne. Tough for making a last minute go/no go call.
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I use my iPhone for that - current users of ADSB weather generally agree (from what I've heard anyway) that weather is available once you've climbed up a few thousand feet and can see the ground stations (call it 5 minutes). If you're close enough to the weather (within 10 miles) that you need to see the radar picture to make a go/no-go decision for the takeoff and initial climbout, then you need to sit out and wait for it to pass, or use your Mark-1 eyeballs.
 
Anthony said:
Got it. I'd probably go fro the light subscription for my needs, so it would be closer to two year payback for me.
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You still need the hardware for XM. For use with a tablet, that means the WxWorx box and MobileLink, which will run you more than $800.

Even for my GPSMAP 396, I got tired of paying for XM because there were only certain months when I found it particularly useful. When I tried to cancel, they screwed up my bill and ended up charging me DOUBLE. I spent hours on the phone with them, and they couldn't or wouldn't fix it. Finally, I just turned everything over to my credit card company, who eventually rectified the situation, though I had to provide even more documentation to them.

If your flying frequently takes you to areas without cellular reception and/or ADS-B, then XM may be your best choice at the moment. Personally, I'm not going to be quick to jump back onto the XM bandwagon.


JKG
 
JGoodish said:
You still need the hardware for XM. For use with a tablet, that means the WxWorx box and MobileLink, which will run you more than $800.

Even for my GPSMAP 396, I got tired of paying for XM because there were only certain months when I found it particularly useful. When I tried to cancel, they screwed up my bill and ended up charging me DOUBLE. I spent hours on the phone with them, and they couldn't or wouldn't fix it. Finally, I just turned everything over to my credit card company, who eventually rectified the situation, though I had to provide even more documentation to them.

If your flying frequently takes you to areas without cellular reception and/or ADS-B, then XM may be your best choice at the moment. Personally, I'm not going to be quick to jump back onto the XM bandwagon.
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At the end of the day, there are those who like XM, really have the need for XM..............and those who don't. With my Garmin 696, XM has been one of the most benificial addons I could have. Especially when flying in the mountain states of the western USA.
 
L.Adamson said:
At the end of the day, there are those who like XM, really have the need for XM..............and those who don't. With my Garmin 696, XM has been one of the most benificial addons I could have. Especially when flying in the mountain states of the western USA.
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Up until recently, XM was really the only option for cost-effective in-flight weather. I had it on various systems for several years before I finally cancelled. Baron provides some good data, but XM's problems as a company are well-documented. For those who fly where cellular and ADS-B is more available, I'm not so sure that XM is worth the investment at this point, especially if you don't already own the receiver.


JKG
 
Originally Posted by Anthony
Got it. I'd probably go fro the light subscription for my needs, so it would be closer to two year payback for me.
Click to expand...

You still need the hardware for XM. For use with a tablet, that means the WxWorx box and MobileLink, which will run you more than $800.



JKG
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He has the needed hardware with his aera


Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2
 
Piloto said:
I noticed that on your first picture the NEXRAD (lower left corner data field) last update was 35 minutes old and on the second 1 hour and 25 minutes old. This is what the NTSB report was referring to. I have never seen on the XM NEXRAD older than 6 minutes.

José
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I'm afraid you're misreading the information presented. The NEXRAD time stamp on the skyradar application is in actual UTC and not a hh+mm counter like it is in the Garmin applications. So that's 3 minute and 5 minute lag respectively on my snapshots. Sorry to crumble your case against subscription-less FIS. I don't have anything against Garmin, but let's be objective, my snapshots clearly show the datalink WX refreshes with the same or better frequency than the subscription datalink.
 
cavmedic said:
He has the needed hardware with his aera
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That Aera receiver won't work with anything but Garmin hardware. I have the needed hardware for my 396, too, but it's useless for the tablet, which I use for charts and (increasingly) supplemental navigation. Using the tablet means that I can pay a relatively low fee and always have up-to-date charts and navigation information.

I suspect that the target market for the GDL39 ADS-B receiver isn't Garmin portables, it's other mobile devices which have proliferated in the last couple of years. The fact that it apparently works with some of Garmin's portables is somewhat surprising, but a nice bonus.


JKG
 
JGoodish said:
That Aera receiver won't work with anything but Garmin hardware. I have the needed hardware for my 396, too, but it's useless for the tablet, which I use for charts and (increasingly) supplemental navigation. Using the tablet means that I can pay a relatively low fee and always have up-to-date charts and navigation information.

I suspect that the target market for the GDL39 ADS-B receiver isn't Garmin portables, it's other mobile devices which have proliferated in the last couple of years. The fact that it apparently works with some of Garmin's portables is somewhat surprising, but a nice bonus.


JKG
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Ok , but the GL39 is Garmin hardware and it supports the follow devices

Garmin Pilot app



G3X



aera 795/796



aera 500 series



GPSMAP 695/696



GPSMAP 495/496



GPSMAP 396












As for it being suited for other devices , it will only work weather and traffic with the ipad if it is using the Garmin Pilot App and the other devices via a hard wire cable.

So I am confused by your last post.
 
cavmedic said:
As for it being suited for other devices , it will only work weather and traffic with the ipad if it is using the Garmin Pilot App and the other devices via a hard wire cable.

So I am confused by your last post.
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The receiver will likely work with any hardware that runs Garmin Pilot, which In turn will run on iOS and Android. There are quite a few hardware devices that fall into that category.

In addition to Pilot, I suspect that other apps may add support for the Garmin receiver in the future, assuming that it doesn't use some type of proprietary data stream.



JKG
 
cross-posted from red board:

look - I'm the customer - here is what I would like to see:

1. ADS-B receiver using bluetooth for weather and traffic;
2. WAAS GPS - a cheap upgrade
3. 8 hour Li-Ion battery provided with both wall and auto chargers [or use 4AA and let us use rechargeables]
4. Integrates with both Wing-X and Foreflight
5. I like the idea of a $200 addon for AHRS like Clarity [supposedly] will have.

You build it and price it competitively and I'll buy it. Don't try to limit me to a particular display platform. Don't nickel and dime me on extras and battery fees and $15 for a auto charger and stuff like that. Price it like YOU want to buy it - not like you want to sell it. Thats the problem with ALL of the units out there now - they are priced so they can extract every last dime they can - and as a consequence I am told as a customer that value is not important to you, which tells me an awful lot about your corporate philosophy and how I am going to be treated as a customer.

I want a choice because right now, we do not have value. Thus, I have not bought one yet [though I will] and it will depend on price, value and interoperability - I"m not being forced into the VHS/Betamax or Windoze/Mac choice again . . . I'll sit it out. I bought the Garmin 195, then the 295 and then the 496 but stopped there. No more.

Garmin and Foreflight and Wing-X are on different trajectories and Garmin is holding its proprietary everything close to the vest and in Aviation and Software and as a consumer I'm growing tired of that pricing model. Sure, I sit here using a mac, an iPad and an iPhone but those markets are HUGE - until these little providers get their craniums out of their rectums and serve the market instead of themselves they'll NEVER get the market share they need to really turn a profit.
 
comanchepilot said:
I want a choice because right now, we do not have value. Thus, I have not bought one yet [though I will] and it will depend on price, value and interoperability - I"m not being forced into the VHS/Betamax or Windoze/Mac choice again . . . I'll sit it out. I bought the Garmin 195, then the 295 and then the 496 but stopped there. No more.

Garmin and Foreflight and Wing-X are on different trajectories and Garmin is holding its proprietary everything close to the vest and in Aviation and Software and as a consumer I'm growing tired of that pricing model. Sure, I sit here using a mac, an iPad and an iPhone but those markets are HUGE - until these little providers get their craniums out of their rectums and serve the market instead of themselves they'll NEVER get the market share they need to really turn a profit.
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You're going to be waiting forever. Software vendors are always going to compete on features and exclusives. Apple and Android are going to be the platforms for the foreseeable future. You're right that the market for aviation apps is in its infancy, but competition is always a good thing.

Right now, WingX appears to be "less exclusive" when it comes to support for hardware devices, but there is good and bad to that. ForeFlight's exclusive with Stratus appears to be more tightly integrated.

I've been looking for the ideal solution and haven't found it yet. However, I think that he apps will get more comprehensive as they mature.


JKG
 
Piloto said:
You are correct John. Since 98% of the GA fleet is not ADS-B out equipped your chances of being close to one that is equipped is less than 2% in covered areas. And 0% in not covered areas.

José
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Even though the fleet is not equipped yet, if you are in coverage (and that is now a big part of the country) the ground system rebroadcasts radar targets (with range and altitude) relevant to you if you have a transmitter. Transmitters are coming into the market at better prices. As far as I can tell there is no integration needed with the GDL39 - it would just start working properly if you pair it up with a TX.
 
if you had ADS-B traffic - doesn't the ADS-B feed give you traffic from the ADS-B transmitter - which is the feed off the tracon/center radar?
 
comanchepilot said:
if you had ADS-B traffic - doesn't the ADS-B feed give you traffic from the ADS-B transmitter - which is the feed off the tracon/center radar?
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ADSB equipped aircraft transmit their position approximately once per second, so all that is need to know their relative position to your aircraft is an ADSB dual frequency receiver (1090ES and UAT). If you have a single frequency ADSB receiver, than in order to hear ADSB equipped traffic on the other frequency, you need to be able to receive the ground station and you must have an ADSB Out transmitter so that the ground station Rebroadcasts the traffic messages received on the other frequency (ADSR). To receive non participating targets using only a mode C transponder, the target aircraft need to be detected by the ATC radar and forwarded to the ground station as TISB, and TISB will only be transmitted to your aircraft if you have an ADSB Out transmitter that is in contact with the ground station. Without ADSB Out in your aircraft, receiving ADSR and TISB is problematic as you need to be near an ADSB Out equipped aircraft that has been configured for receiving ADSB messages from the ground station.
 
John Collins said:
and TISB will only be transmitted to your aircraft if you have an ADSB Out transmitter that is in contact with the ground station. Without ADSB Out in your aircraft, receiving ADSR and TISB is problematic as you need to be near an ADSB Out equipped aircraft that has been configured for receiving ADSB messages from the ground station.
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Slight clarification here - the traffic that is transmitted from the ground stations upward is receivable by all aircraft with the correct reciever (since it's a broadcast radio signal) - but the traffic described in that broadcast are only the targets within a certain "puck" of airspace - if I remember correctly it's 7 miles radius and 3500' above and below. Each aircraft that is using ADSB-OUT triggers the traffic in his "puck" of airspace to be included in the broadcast. If you ADSB-IN only and are 20 miles from that participating aircraft, you can recieve data about the traffic relevant to him, but it's not relevant to you. If you are flying formation with him then his traffic will also show up on your screen.

There might be 100 targets within a given piece of airspace, but if there is only one participating ADSB-OUT aircraft in that airspace and only 3 targets are in his "puck" of airspace, the broadcast only includes data for those 3 targets. The other 97 are see-and-avoid.
 
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airguy said:
Slight clarification here - the traffic that is transmitted from the ground stations upward is receivable by all aircraft with the correct reciever (since it's a broadcast radio signal) - but the traffic described in that broadcast are only the targets within a certain "puck" of airspace - if I remember correctly it's 7 miles radius and 3500' above and below. Each aircraft that is using ADSB-OUT triggers the traffic in his "puck" of airspace to be included in the broadcast. If you ADSB-IN only and are 20 miles from that participating aircraft, you can recieve data about the traffic relevant to him, but it's not relevant to you. If you are flying formation with him then his traffic will also show up on your screen.

There might be 100 targets within a given piece of airspace, but if there is only one participating ADSB-OUT aircraft in that airspace and only 3 targets are in his "puck" of airspace, the broadcast only includes data for those 3 targets. The other 97 are see-and-avoid.
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Agree with your analysis, to refresh your memory, assuming the client is in the middle of the hockey puck, the puck dimensions are +/- 3500 feet and with a 30 NM diameter for TISB. For ADSR, the dimensions are +/- 5000 feet and and 30 NM diameter.
 
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