Garmin Pilot legal as my logbook?

birdus

birdus

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Jay Williams
My instructor is old school and has never signed a student off using a digital logbook, but I would like to use Garmin Pilot. You can log all kinds of data, there's a place for the CFI's signature, and there's also a place for endorsements. I believe using a digital logbook is totally legit nowadays, but I don't know an official source for that. Is there something I can point my CFI to to show that?

Thanks,
Jay
 
Walboy said:
61.51 covers logging. It doesn't say anything about prohibiting the use of a digital logbook.

I would be prepared to give a demonstration, let him see where his signature would show up etc.
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Perfect. Thank you. Actually, I really needed to read that, anyway, because there are SO many different things you can enter in Garmin Pilot (and ForeFlight, too, I imagine) that I was only guessing at what I had to fill in. That FAR points out explicitly what I need to enter, so that's really helpful.
 
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I put everything in my own database. I have a paper one for signatures.
 
I am a pilot so too cheap to buy a log book. I just use a spiral note book.

But if electronic logbooks had been available when I started flying I would have used one.
 
Bell206 said:
Here's one reference:
https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_120-78_final.pdf
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As the AC points out, the main issue the FAA is concerned over is authentication - the verification that the instructor is "signing" the logbook. With traditional paper, it's the instructor using pen and ink. With digital paper it's technology considered to be roughly equivalent. All of the digital logbooks in general use - those connected with a specific EFB app, suich as Pilot or ForeFlight, as well as those not tied to an EFB, such as MyFlightBook and LogTenPro say they are compliaant (and probably are)
 
Had another lesson today. I got Garmin Pilot (for the first time) to log the lesson automatically. Afterwards, I showed my instructor where we could enter notes about the lesson, where he could sign, where he could enter endorsements, and even the total flight path of today's flight. That was really cool! I also told him about the affirmation of some online that it is a legit way to log. He pretty quickly because sold on it. Thanks, everyone!
 
@birdus, a potentially bigger issue than its FAA compliance is, do you know what to do if you decide to switch from Pilot to another EFB? It's a question applicable to any electronic logbook.
 
birdus said:
Had another lesson today. I got Garmin Pilot (for the first time) to log the lesson automatically. Afterwards, I showed my instructor where we could enter notes about the lesson, where he could sign, where he could enter endorsements, and even the total flight path of today's flight. That was really cool! I also told him about the affirmation of some online that it is a legit way to log. He pretty quickly because sold on it. Thanks, everyone!
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Records are an area in flight instruction it’s hard to argue with easier if it meets the requirements, but Pilot is a rather expensive app.
 
I'm with EdFred - digital logging with paper for signatures.

With digital, as always, an important consideration is what happens to your data in the future when technology changes and/or the company changes its policy or pricing or goes TU.
As with the Medical, own your data!
 
You can always print your logbook from the EFB and attach the old logs to whatever new EFB you would want to switch to. Or stick them in a paper book.

The ForeFlight logbook is pretty good. You can attach pictures, people, different tags (flight review, IPC) and it will keep you caught up on currency without having to do any work. I’m sure the others do the same but it is pretty slick.
 
birdus said:
My instructor is old school and has never signed a student off using a digital logbook, but I would like to use Garmin Pilot. You can log all kinds of data, there's a place for the CFI's signature, and there's also a place for endorsements. I believe using a digital logbook is totally legit nowadays, but I don't know an official source for that. Is there something I can point my CFI to to show that?

Thanks,
Jay
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I use an Excel spreadsheet as my logbook. I use a traditional paper logbook only for those entries requiring someone's signature (Flight review, IPC, etc...)
 
other than endorsements I don’t believe there’s any requirement for log books.
 
sarangan said:
I use an Excel spreadsheet as my logbook. I use a traditional paper logbook only for those entries requiring someone's signature (Flight review, IPC, etc...)
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Garmin Pilot (and Foreflight, etc., I suspect) accept signatures.
 
midlifeflyer said:
@birdus...do you know what to do if you decide to switch from Pilot to another EFB?
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Export the logbook from the current EFB, then import into the new one, or begin using paper, if so desired.

By the way, I just tried it. Garmin Pilot exports the entire logbook into a single file onto your PC. It's formatted as JSON. Even the signatures (images) are there as base-64 data.
 
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Maybe that applies to you. I’m not required to carry logs. The ramp checker can ask to see my ID, medical certificate, and aircraft registration. I’d offer to let him see other aircraft papers because mine are squeaky clean.
 
EdFred said:
Gotta prove currency if ramp checked.
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Since logbooks don't have to be carried in the plane, maybe I'm missing your point. In fact, some people hate the idea of carrying them there, since they view them as a very valuable diary of your aviation life and therefore don't want to risk them.

That's one of the nice things about electronic log books to me. They automatically get backed up, and I can download them and back them up further, myself. After entering my few logs so far on the iPad, I opened Garmin Pilot on my phone and saw the logs there. That's pretty cool.
 
Stewartb said:
other than endorsements I don’t believe there’s any requirement for log books.
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For a private and higher certificate level, you need to be able to demonstrate qualification for additional certificates and ratings if you apply and you need to be able to demonstrate currency if requested. Neither require you to have logbooks with you you are not required to produce them on a ramp check.

There are some logbook carrying requirements for certificate levels below private, but yeah, those tend to be for endorsements.
 
birdus said:
Since logbooks don't have to be carried in the plane, maybe I'm missing your point. In fact, some people hate the idea of carrying them there, since they view them as a very valuable diary of your aviation life and therefore don't want to risk them.

That's one of the nice things about electronic log books to me. They automatically get backed up, and I can download them and back them up further, myself. After entering my few logs so far on the iPad, I opened Garmin Pilot on my phone and saw the logs there. That's pretty cool.
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I dont carry them, but I may have to prove them. (IFR or passenger currency)
 
Stewartb said:
Maybe that applies to you. I’m not required to carry logs. The ramp checker can ask to see my ID, medical certificate, and aircraft registration. I’d offer to let him see other aircraft papers because mine are squeaky clean.
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If you always fly solo and never fly instruments and are never going for another certificate. Then yeah, oh except, for the 24 calendar month thing.
 
EdFred said:
I suppose that depends how we define "ramp check."
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I define it as a spot inspection taking place at the airplane, and not as a request to present at a preset meeting at a reasonable time upon request.

if you want to be technical, the FAA defines ramp inspection as "surveillance of an airman, operator, or air agency during actual operations at an airport or heliport."

How would you prefer to define it?
 
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