Garmin Pilot for Android -- Tech Support, Tips, Tricks

Google released a major OS upgrade and on new hardware. From what I can tell, no one had early access to the hardware for testing. I'm not a Garmin fanboy, but it doesn't appear to be their fault they couldn't test before the hardware went on sale.

I'm just happy to have stuff like this on Android. If Garmin were to ever go apple-only, I'd have to pick something else. I may anyway... I'd like to get ADS-B in, but I'm not willing to be restricted to Garmin's proprietary hardware. It's funny, sort of.... They appear to view the GDL-39 lock-in as a competitive advantage, and it's the one thing that has me really considering moving to something else.
 
The GDL-39 is a really, really nice piece of kit. It often outperforms the belly mounted external antennas on our RV-8A.

Considering that I have it mounted inside the cockpit, with no clear view of the ground stations, that is amazing. Garmin really got the GDL-39 right.
 
Jay, I would be more worried about your belly mounted installation if that is the case. A 1/4 wave 978 antenna on the belly should absolutely be out performing that thing sitting on the dash. Dirty antenna, corroded connectors and coax, pinched coax, poor soldering, etc.
 
Pedals2Paddles said:
Jay, I would be more worried about your belly mounted installation if that is the case. A 1/4 wave 978 antenna on the belly should absolutely be out performing that thing sitting on the dash. Dirty antenna, corroded connectors and coax, pinched coax, poor soldering, etc.
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We've been troubleshooting the ADS-B system since February.

By "troubleshooting" I mean working with everyone, from the avionics manufacturers to the FAA itself. Amazingly, we have identified some interesting shortcomings and anomalies in the ADS-B system that have contributed to the unusual circumstances I've described, whereby my single-frequency Garmin GDL-39/Nexus 7/Garmin Pilot combo is occasionally outperforming my dual frequency panel-mounted SkyRadar/Trig TT-22/GRT Horizon HXr installation.

I will post more on this fascinating process as we work through it. For now, suffice it to say that the ADS-B system ain't ready for primetime...yet.
 
I'm shocked... :mad2: :no: :rolleyes2:

I'm sure someone has hopefully told you this, but the separation between your ADS-B receiver antenna must be as far away from the transponder and DME antennas as possible. The xpdr and dme will desense the ADS-B receiver very easily if too close together. I would put them on opposite ends of the plane if possible. Any crappy shielding on the transponder and dme coax will bleed out RF and interfere as well.

The GDL-39, or any other dash mount receiver, is physically separated from the transponder and dme antennas by both distance and lots of metal.
 
Pedals2Paddles said:
I'm shocked... :mad2: :no: :rolleyes2:

I'm sure someone has hopefully told you this, but the separation between your ADS-B receiver antenna must be as far away from the transponder and DME antennas as possible. The xpdr and dme will desense the ADS-B receiver very easily if too close together. I would put them on opposite ends of the plane if possible. Any crappy shielding on the transponder and dme coax will bleed out RF and interfere as well.

The GDL-39, or any other dash mount receiver, is physically separated from the transponder and dme antennas by both distance and lots of metal.
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Yeah, that's one of the 6,322 potential problems we have identified, chased, and either fixed or discarded.

Inrerestingly, thanks to us flying every few days, and thanks to us being one of the first aircraft on the Texas Gulf Coast with ADS-B in/out, we have been perfectly situated to help the FAA troubleshoot the system. We/they have identified several problems in the way the ground station system interacts with dual frequency systems. Our current "fix", suggested by the FAA, has been to set our system to transmit that we do NOT have a 1090 receiver on board -- even though we do.

This setting kludge has made our system orders of magnitude more reliable -- but it's still a kludge. The FAA is working on how to make their ground stations better interact with dual receiver installations in an effort to fix this problem.

It's an incredibly complex system. IMHO, at some point they are just going to have to set the ground stations to always transmit everything, rather than waiting for the current (very problematic) ADS-B out trigger system.
 
Wonderful. Sounds similar to the system accidentally hiding non-certified ADS-B OUT units (Skyguard) from certified receivers. And the workaround is to make sure the Skyguard ADS-B out uses a different squawk code than your transponder....
 
Jay Honeck said:
Interesting. I wonder how Garmin achieves such great reception with that single antenna?
Click to expand...

I don't think they do. I think the problem is you're stuck comparing to an installed system that isn't working properly. :D
 
Just an observation on the GDL-39 and the need for diversity. Over the year of ownership I have noticed on several occasions the loss of the air to air "target" when the antenna is blocked by part of the fuselage.

Based close to a Class B, I will not pick up an airliner climbing out from the Bravo unless I pretty much have line of sight with it. Not sure that is how it is supposed to work, but it is what I see.
 
Marauder said:
Just an observation on the GDL-39 and the need for diversity. Over the year of ownership I have noticed on several occasions the loss of the air to air "target" when the antenna is blocked by part of the fuselage.

Based close to a Class B, I will not pick up an airliner climbing out from the Bravo unless I pretty much have line of sight with it. Not sure that is how it is supposed to work, but it is what I see.
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Happens all the time. Change direction, the target disappears. Return to course, the target reappears.

There are many bugs in the system yet to be ironed out. Not saying that this is a "bug", per se, but we have identified others, primarily involving the "handshake" between ADS-B "out" and the ground transmitters.

It ain't ready for primetime, yet. They've got 5.5 years left to iron out the problems.
 
Well, this is interesting. For you early Nexus 9/Android Lollipop adapters who are wondering why Garmin Pilot isn't working, it appears that our assumptions about Garmin being caught by surprise were wrong.

From Android Central: "Android 5.0 Lollipop is a serious shift in how Google handles their OS. Previously, manufacturers were lucky to see the next Android release before consumers on the Nexus devices. This time out, manufacturers and app developers alike have had at least a reference version of the OS to play with for over four months, that is huge."

So Garmin had ample time to put together an update for Pilot that would work with/on the newest and best platforms. They simply chose not to.

This doesn't bode well for the app.
 
Yet another reason I went with iFly for Android and dumped Garmin Pilot.
 
Jay Honeck said:
Well, this is interesting. For you early Nexus 9/Android Lollipop adapters who are wondering why Garmin Pilot isn't working, it appears that our assumptions about Garmin being caught by surprise were wrong.
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...unless you develop Android apps for a living and realize that was the emulator and SDK, and not functioning hardware.

Emulators have crappy support for OpenGL (the graphics part that Garmin Pilot almost certainly uses) and you really need hardware to test it.

Give it time. It bugs me it's not ready, but it doesn't worry me.
 
Mistake Not... said:
...unless you develop Android apps for a living and realize that was the emulator and SDK, and not functioning hardware.

Emulators have crappy support for OpenGL (the graphics part that Garmin Pilot almost certainly uses) and you really need hardware to test it.

Give it time. It bugs me it's not ready, but it doesn't worry me.
Click to expand...

Well, actually Google made developer preview images available for Nexus 5 and Nexus 7 2013 (wi-fi only) long time before the official release, so it's not really an excuse this time around, especially for someone who develops Android apps for living...
 
N9 is 64 bit, and GP probably uses the NDK. N7 isn't going to help there.

Even if they had sample hardware and a developer preview, there's still internal development process. If you're sane, you don't just "recompile and upload". When you consider the different API levels and different device implementations (Android Dashboard) that must be tested, it's not an easy problem. I would imagine (but don't know) they have a release process they follow which involves (at least) fairly detailed testing on multiple hardware / OS combinations. Apple is much easier to develop for here, as I understand it, since they have far fewer variations.

But I'm spoiling the fun... let me help: "Oh noes, it's been two weeks!!! Garmin is discontinuing support for Android!! omg. I'm going to apple! They love their customers!!!"

better?
 
Let's see. We (in the Nexus 7 world) will be receiving the Lollipop upgrade OTA in the next few days.

This will apparently render Garmin Pilot -- an aviation app that I've got two years invested in -- useless. It's my primary EFB app.

We know Garmin had the OS for four months in advance.

And you don't think we should be angry and/or worried?
 
Mistake Not... said:
N9 is 64 bit, and GP probably uses the NDK. N7 isn't going to help there.
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64-bit & NDK is a valid point, assuming they use native code there. We'll see if it's the case when OTA starts hitting GP users on N7, unless they release a fix before that.
 
Samsung has committed to roll Lollipop out to the Note 8.0 although schedule is unknown at this time - my concern is not about OS compatibility since I can elect not to install it until GP is updated.

My issue remains the glaring gulf between the iOS and Android feature set and the lack of response to the major bugs with the 4.0.1 release.

I never even received an acknowledgement of my bug report, and the issues remain after a factory reset and rebuild of the tablet.

Taking care of the customer needs to be the primary focus. There are other Android options and they will eventually become more attractive.

'Gimp
 
I dumped the Garmin app. It was basically useless in the air, and even !ESS on the ground. Went back to the old school flight planning until something better comes along. A waste of time and money IMHO.
 
AcroGimp said:
... There are other Android options and they will eventually become more attractive.
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I switched to iFly GPS a year and a half ago for just the reasons you cite. Opaque customer relations, inadequate development for the Android platform, ...

I like the iFly UI better than Garmin's. I like the fact they do not lock you in to proprietary ADS-B hardware. But most I like their active forums, where most of the company including the president, are regular posters and regularly comment on what's going on with the development effort and the future features list. These are people I am glad to support with my money.

Is the iFly feature set up to the leaders? No, but it is adequate for my needs and it is headed in the right direction. Will it ever completely catch up? Hard to say. On iThings, ForeFlight has clearly reached escape velocity and will continue to lead barring some major business screwup. Undaunted, the iFly guys continue to develop for both iThings and Android, keeping the products fairly closely synchronized. It will be very hard for them to completely catch up to ForeFlight but, again, I like seeing the effort and expect to benefit from it.

Have I missed GP since I dropped it? Not for a millisecond.
 
Geico266 said:
I dumped the Garmin app. It was basically useless in the air, and even !ESS on the ground. Went back to the old school flight planning until something better comes along. A waste of time and money IMHO.
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All being said, I gotta agree. I wish I'd saved my money.

GP is an 'extra' that I fly with but not anything I rely on. I should have stuck with my old 496 with XM weather. It was solid as a rock.

My 430W in the panel flies the plane with GPSS to an STEC-30 and does all the grunt work, and I have a 696 hard wired to the GDL-39 antenna. It works, :rolleyes: but it is not as robust as my old 496 with XM and a Zaon PCAS. The weather on the ADS-B and the traffic is a crap shoot compared to XM and PCAS. jmho :redface:
 
AcroGimp said:
Samsung has committed to roll Lollipop out to the Note 8.0 although schedule is unknown at this time - my concern is not about OS compatibility since I can elect not to install it until GP is updated.

My issue remains the glaring gulf between the iOS and Android feature set and the lack of response to the major bugs with the 4.0.1 release.

I never even received an acknowledgement of my bug report, and the issues remain after a factory reset and rebuild of the tablet.

Taking care of the customer needs to be the primary focus. There are other Android options and they will eventually become more attractive.

'Gimp
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Just curious: What bug?

The 4.0 update was a disaster. Since the last update (4.0.2?) GP has been perfect. Rock solid stable.

For all the moaning, GP is still the best app for Android, by a long shot. I've got them all on my tablet, and they are all kludges, by comparison.

GP is working marvelously for me right now -- but I sure hope they release a lollipop compatible update soon.
 
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Jay Honeck said:
Just curious: What bug?

The 4.0 update was a disaster. Since the last update (4.0.2?) GP has been perfect. Rock solid stable.

For all the moaning, GP is still the best app for Android, by a long shot. I've got them all on my tablet, and they are all kludges, by compariso.

GP is working marvelously for me right now -- but I sure hope they release a lollipop compatible update soon.
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After a factory wipe on tablet and fresh install of GP I am still getting 6-19 second delays on loading of airport data on touch (literally filling in the icons in the touch ring), then a second 6-19 second delay when opening any element of the touch ring/the airport browser.

Glitchy delayed SafeTaxi display as well (often shows unavailable for, you guessed it, 6-19 seconds).

When I open the Downloads tab it initially shows 88.8GB total memory, none available, and then, 6-19 seconds later, suddenly shows the correct values.

On the plus side, I have only had one lock-up since September, but it was in flight, recycled the tablet and GDL-39 3D and all was fine.

Battery consumption and operating temperature remain high - worse than before.

ADS-B traffic performance is the only actual improvement I have observed to-date.

'Gimp
 
Yep. I switched from FF to GP six months ago and since then FF has been on a tear with releasing new features. I love GP vector mapping but the rest of the app is falling behind and it's sad since I am the kind of customer they should want. A former FF guy. They rarely respond to bug reports which is inexcusable. Well they lost me for good if I don't see any significant update to the app soon.
 
From today's flight, illustrating ADS-B traffic on Garmin Pilot, displayed on the Nexus 7 tablet (mounted in the back cockpit of our RV-8A):

10805643_764859923549904_8012874703394129512_n.jpg


Another close up view, showing traffic a bit better:

1904163_764860063549890_6683849078775873750_n.jpg


And a bonus pic, showing the GRT Horizon's EFIS, as reproduced via Bluetooth on the Nexus 7:

10688_764860183549878_2847163258634445646_n.jpg
 
Just checked the Garmin Pilot app in the Play Store, and they have added a disclaimer, warning users the the app will not work on Lollipop, the latest version of Android OS.

They do say that they are working on a fix, but this is really disappointing. I'm holding off on the OTA upgrade for my Nexus 7 until this is addressed.
 
The good new is that a few days after I ignored Google's effort to foist this so-called "upgrade" on me, the little nagging message in the upper left corner of the screen vanished. Garmin Pilot continues to work flawlessly for me. I have no reason to be disappointed.
 
The info on the Google App page says:

>>
Important note for Nexus 9 users:
Currently, Garmin Pilot is not compatible with the Nexus 9. Please note that we are working diligently remedy the issue.
<<

and

>>
Important note for Nexus 9 & Lollipop users:
Currently Garmin Pilot is not compatible with Android 5 (Lollipop) or the Nexus 9. Please note that we are working diligently remedy the issue.
We strongly suggest you *do not* upgrade your device when Android 5.0 is available.
<<

In the first sentence they say it isn't compatible with the N9. In the second they say it isn't compatible with Android 5 or the N9.

My N7 has 4.4.4 on it right now.
 
Matthew said:
My N7 has 4.4.4 on it right now.
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Ditto. And for the first time ever my GP app won't start. It just gets stuck on this screen. Won't download, won't start.
 

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Irish_Armada said:
Ditto. And for the first time ever my GP app won't start. It just gets stuck on this screen. Won't download, won't start.
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The only time I've seen that was after an update. Then I started it while I was in the plane, on the ground, and it tried to do that one-time update but I didn't have any WiFi connection out on the ramp.

--

By the way - I sent a bug report to Garmin last night. I noticed on a couple of their map modes that my airport doesn't show. The airspace around it shows, the surrounding airports show, when I touch where the airport should be I can pull up the airport info, but the airport icon doesn't show. In Sectional/WAC/IFR low/IFR high mode the airport shows, but if I put the display into VFR or IFR map mode it does not.
 
GP is working flawlessly for me, too. But my concern is that Garmin isn't keeping up with OS upgrades, even though they had the developer's version of the OS for four months prior to its release.

Manufacturers telegraph their intentions. Before Lowrance went down, they stopped being responsive. When AvMap promised XM weather for three consecutive years, and didn't come through, we knew it was the end of the road. (Although they remain a minor player, amazingly.)

IMHO, Garmin is telegraphing their intentions pretty clearly.
 
It looks like Garmin is not alone. Google pulled a Pearl Harbor on everyone with Lollipop, and four months was not enough to make even Chrome work with it.

See the Android forum. Everybody hates Lollipop:
https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/nexus/to2BHjmhh-I[376-400-false]

I wonder whether the disappearance of the Lollipop nag message and the update of the warning label for Garmin Pilot on Play signifies that Google has halted the OTA rollout of Lollipop to the older Nexus 7s. If so, it would be their smartest move since bringing out the Nexus 7 in the first place.
 
Geez, I dunno. I just installed Lollipop on my N7 2013 and it runs great, faster than before and all apps work fine. Don't particularly care for all the mail apps shanghaied to gmail, but the rest is fine for me.
 
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