Garmin Pilot for Android -- Tech Support, Tips, Tricks

So I doublechecked this morning and GP does now require an active internet connection for subscription validation using the Garmin signin and appears to lockout special features other than the basic functionality if it cannot sign you in (e.g., SafeTaxi, etc.). Samsung Galaxy Note 8.0, Android 4.4.2, GP 4.2.0 and I believe GDL Firmware 4.30.

The GDL-39 3D is at the Yak-Cave and I will check for another firmware update this afternoon and see if that fixes the Bluetooth issue (no connection on Saturday).

Remain very disappointed.

'Gimp
 
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In theory we are supposed to get some decent flying weather here this afternoon. I will test it out.
 
I heard there's a new Android update (5.1) coming out. How many weeks before GP for Android works after this install?
 
I just dialed the garmin pilot support #.....automated voice response tells me the wait time is 15-20 minutes. WHAT?!?!? they must be having some serious issues, cause that's insane.
 
holy cr@p. ok so is anyone else simply NOT going to set up a flygarmin account? wtf do I need one of those fer?
 
eman1200 said:
holy cr@p. ok so is anyone else simply NOT going to set up a flygarmin account? wtf do I need one of those fer?
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Pretty sure you won't be able to access the App without one. My issue is it now checks for the login and subscription DURING start-up, so make sure you either use a cellular tablet or have a wifi connection at startup of GP otherwise you just get the basic App, no SafeTaxi, etc. Nice to know AFTER you are strapped in and taxiing out.

Bumbling idiots sometimes these Garmin folk. We are 18 months, or more, behind the iOS feature set on Android and now this...

I am currently planning to not renew my subscriptions this summer and sell the GDL-39 3D so I can move to something that offers the feature set I want and actually pays attention to Android operators. Too bad the deal between AMS and Avilution blew up, it was my 2nd favorite Android App, guess Naviator and one of the ADS-B/ADHRS units will get my business.

'Gimp
 
I haven't had any trouble running the program without an active Internet connection since the update. I usually fly with the tablet in airplane mode (with just Bluetooth enabled), and all features have been working. As a further test, I put the tablet in airplane mode a few minutes ago, powered it completely off, rebooted, and ran GP. It displayed a message saying that it could not fetch my account information, but the subscriptions are all still there with their current expiration dates, and everything seemed to work, including Safe Taxi.

I share the frustration about the feature set being so far behind the iOS version. My partners and I went with Garmin Pilot and the GDL 39 because Garmin had both Android and iOS versions of the app, and we have users of both systems in our group. However, the Android app falls way behind the iOS version in terms of features, and the gap seems to be widening instead of closing.

Lee
 
lziegenhals said:
I haven't had any trouble running the program without an active Internet connection since the update. I usually fly with the tablet in airplane mode (with just Bluetooth enabled), and all features have been working. As a further test, I put the tablet in airplane mode a few minutes ago, powered it completely off, rebooted, and ran GP. It displayed a message saying that it could not fetch my account information, but the subscriptions are all still there with their current expiration dates, and everything seemed to work, including Safe Taxi.

I share the frustration about the feature set being so far behind the iOS version. My partners and I went with Garmin Pilot and the GDL 39 because Garmin had both Android and iOS versions of the app, and we have users of both systems in our group. However, the Android app falls way behind the iOS version in terms of features, and the gap seems to be widening instead of closing.

Lee
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This is why I threw in the towel and got a mini. It just updated to 7.2.0. and it had me do the log in to myGarmin.

You can run an android device and one mini on one subscription. I'm running it android on my S5 and apple on the mini. Best of both worlds for now.

I gave up on android ever catching up.. Come to think of it, that could have been Garmin's plan all along. :mad2::lol:
 
I don't get any of this. We flew for an hour today, and everything worked just fine.
 
GP Android 4.2.1 is out. I hope it has fixed the recent login issues. Any in-flight reports welcome.
 
The thing about the GP upgrades - they seem to need you to restart them a couple of times with and without a network connection until they seem happy. I installed the upgrade, restarted, did everything, and it appeared to work just fine. So I turned off my connection and restarted GP. Got some error messages about being unable to connect to my account, also got a message about my subscription being expired. I clicked through all that, shut it down, re-connected the network, started up, shut it down, turned off the network and tried again. After a couple iterations, it now starts with/without a connection with no error messages.

I learned my lesson a couple releases ago. After installing a GP upgrade always try it several times in airplane mode before trying to use it for real.
 
Matthew said:
I heard there's a new Android update (5.1) coming out. How many weeks before GP for Android works after this install?
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I sure hope it works better in my older Nexus 7 than the current version of 5. I've got continual problems with apps that don't start up correctly, and GP is just one of them.
 
Ghery said:
I sure hope it works better in my older Nexus 7 than the current version of 5. I've got continual problems with apps that don't start up correctly, and GP is just one of them.
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My N7v1 died, I'm using N7v2 now.

The only problems I remember when 5.0 came out was fixed by the apps with their own updates for compatibility.
 
Doing a burn-in test on the bench at the office this morning. Updated the GDL-39 3D to firmware 4.40 at the Yak-Cave yesterday and the Bluetooth connection issue appears resolved - I will also admit that the traffic performance seems better - really impressed with the traffic info at this point.

Still seeing minor login issues with the GP App itself, now on V 4.2.1 - BUT it will now provide access to all subscriptions (including SafeTaxi and Geo-Ref'd Approach Plates) if it can't fetch account info - might have needed a couple restarts after the update.

I am currently modifying a case for the Galaxy Note 8.0 with a RAM Mount ball on the back so I can have a more secure setup in the cockpit, also got a multi-port 24V-12V converter so I can charge the GDL-39 3D and tablet in the Yak.

We'll see how it pans out over the next couple weeks - I have a trip to a Formation Training Clinic in Deer Valley next week so it will all get a good workout.

'Gimp
 
Strangely, I just fired up GP and it made me sign in...AGAIN.

This time, however, it said "Your old user name and password won't work. Please sign up for a new Garmin account, blah blah blah." WTF?

So, with nothing to lose, I tried my old name and account. It worked just fine, of course.

I don't know what Garmin is trying to do, but they seem to be failing in the attempt.
 
Jay Honeck said:
Strangely, I just fired up GP and it made me sign in...AGAIN.

This time, however, it said "Your old user name and password won't work. Please sign up for a new Garmin account, blah blah blah." WTF?

So, with nothing to lose, I tried my old name and account. It worked just fine, of course.

I don't know what Garmin is trying to do, but they seem to be failing in the attempt.
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I have experienced this login request issue on the iOS version - even using the Garmin requested login. I saw they loaded an update last night for "minor bug fixes". Hopefully it will be fixed once and for good.
 
Flew GP Android 4.2.1 today with no problems. Updated the firmware on the GDL-39 last flight, and all seems fine. As I mentioned on another thread, I now have two 2013 N7 tablets hooked up via bluetooth to the GDL-39, one on each yoke, and it was cool seeing the traffic (lots of it -- I wonder if they did anything there) on both yokes. The login problems I had experienced, similar to those mentioned by others, seem to have disappeared for now.
Hope to do more serious testing soon, but so far so good.
 
What are the current differences between the iOS version and the android version of GP? I currently am all android (note 10.1 tablet and note 4 phone).
 
farmerbrake said:
What are the current differences between the iOS version and the android version of GP? I currently am all android (note 10.1 tablet and note 4 phone).
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I am pretty sure the iOS has terrain, which the Android doesn't, and that's my number one pet peeve at the moment.
 
Android still has synthetic vision though right? Thinking about purchasing a gdl 39 3d soon maybe. But if I can't get some of the features with android I might wait and try ipad with foreflight and gp first before deciding
 
The differences I noticed in the limited testing I've done are...

1- no synthetic vision
2- no terrain or obstacles
3- no ability to create flight plan waypoints based on VOR radial and distance (eg BAE/270/10 creating a waypoint 10nm from the vor on the 270 radial)
4- noticeably slower and less stable (in a galaxy tab 4 7.0 vs iPad Air 3 and iPhone 6+)
5- no night mode

I was really hoping the android version on the tab 4 7 would have worked better as I think that's the sweet spot size for the yoke but really dissaponted that garmin seems to not spend as much resources in the android version as ipad
 
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I just finished a ten hour round trip flight to Florida and all is not well. First of all, the "Groundhog Day" issue, every day, it forgets that I signed in and validated my subscriptions and nags me to do it again. If I'm someplace with no wifi, like an airplane, it protests that it can't validate my subscriptions. This seems to be an annoyance, but I am sick of "upgrades" that impair functionality. I repeat: don't try to fix anything that's not broke.

The second issue may be Garmin, or may be FAA. During the entire five hour flight home from Florida, the NEXRAD failed to display. All the other weather data and traffic were fine, but I never had any radar imagery. Fortunately, I have a Stormscope. In my opinion, Garmin Pilot needs to be like the Stormscope, an effective, reliable appliance for the airplane. No "upgrades" to break it, no Lollipop to slow it and mess up the interface, just fifteen years of good functionality.

Garmin Support says that the fix for Groundhog Day is to erase all the data for Garmin Pilot, sign in to my account, and then repopulate all my data. I've done this and am slowly getting back to where I was. Maybe this fix will work; maybe it will even solve the more pressing problem of the death of NEXRAD. My future choice of expensive certified avionics for my plane (like ADS-B out) rides, in part, on how well Pilot serves me. I like Garmin and hope they fix things.
 
Paul Hamilton said:
I just finished a ten hour round trip flight to Florida and all is not well. First of all, the "Groundhog Day" issue, every day, it forgets that I signed in and validated my subscriptions and nags me to do it again. If I'm someplace with no wifi, like an airplane, it protests that it can't validate my subscriptions. This seems to be an annoyance, but I am sick of "upgrades" that impair functionality. I repeat: don't try to fix anything that's not broke.



The second issue may be Garmin, or may be FAA. During the entire five hour flight home from Florida, the NEXRAD failed to display. All the other weather data and traffic were fine, but I never had any radar imagery. Fortunately, I have a Stormscope. In my opinion, Garmin Pilot needs to be like the Stormscope, an effective, reliable appliance for the airplane. No "upgrades" to break it, no Lollipop to slow it and mess up the interface, just fifteen years of good functionality.



Garmin Support says that the fix for Groundhog Day is to erase all the data for Garmin Pilot, sign in to my account, and then repopulate all my data. I've done this and am slowly getting back to where I was. Maybe this fix will work; maybe it will even solve the more pressing problem of the death of NEXRAD. My future choice of expensive certified avionics for my plane (like ADS-B out) rides, in part, on how well Pilot serves me. I like Garmin and hope they fix things.
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I had the "Ground Hog" issue on the iOS version that appears to be fixed after a patch was uploaded on the 14th. I am still seeing an issue with the "ETE" error that pops up on a flight plan when you enter it and then move to the weather briefing error. I got an email back last night saying that they weren't familiar with the issue and would forward it on to the developers.

I wonder what kind of internal testing they do before they release this stuff.
 
Paul Hamilton said:
I just finished a ten hour round trip flight to Florida and all is not well. First of all, the "Groundhog Day" issue, every day, it forgets that I signed in and validated my subscriptions and nags me to do it again. If I'm someplace with no wifi, like an airplane, it protests that it can't validate my subscriptions. This seems to be an annoyance, but I am sick of "upgrades" that impair functionality. I repeat: don't try to fix anything that's not broke.

The second issue may be Garmin, or may be FAA. During the entire five hour flight home from Florida, the NEXRAD failed to display. All the other weather data and traffic were fine, but I never had any radar imagery. Fortunately, I have a Stormscope. In my opinion, Garmin Pilot needs to be like the Stormscope, an effective, reliable appliance for the airplane. No "upgrades" to break it, no Lollipop to slow it and mess up the interface, just fifteen years of good functionality.

Garmin Support says that the fix for Groundhog Day is to erase all the data for Garmin Pilot, sign in to my account, and then repopulate all my data. I've done this and am slowly getting back to where I was. Maybe this fix will work; maybe it will even solve the more pressing problem of the death of NEXRAD. My future choice of expensive certified avionics for my plane (like ADS-B out) rides, in part, on how well Pilot serves me. I like Garmin and hope they fix things.
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I've had better luck with it lately, but decided to see how it behaves on the desk when internet is off.
So I killed the GP app, and turned off internet. Then I rebooted with no internet.
GP started complaining about "unexpected error" accessing my account, but continued to work normally after dismissing the error message.
Same happened when I went to the "subscriptions" page.
Obviously the Garmin internet radar was inaccessible at that point, since you can't access ADSB on the ground and the internet based data was off, as expected.
Then I turned on internet access, and all came back (I had no GDL to test at that point, but got the Garmin internet radar weather).
So it seems they want at least intermittent access to the internet to validate the account info, which makes sense, since they keep the config info there also.
Also, I have had some radar "outages" in flight in the past that were due to my forgetting to change the selection from "Radar" to "Radar (FIS-B )". I think that "feature" should be changed to switch automatically to FIS-B when available.
 
For me, the lack of synthetic vision is not a deal killer (I haven't been very impressed with it on mobile devices, and I've got it "for real" in the panel), but I would like better obstacle warning in GP.

As for speed/stability, I couldn't be happier with GP on Android. I've been using it since Version 1.0, way back in 2012, and since at least 2013 it has been very stable. On our Samsung Galaxy S, the 8.4" version, it has been lightning fast and 100% stable.

I agree that it is frustrating that Garmin continues to diss the most popular mobile OS. I understand that Apple jumped off to a head start with pilots with the iPad, but it boggles the mind that this difference still exists in 2015.
 
Jay Honeck said:
[snip]
I agree that it is frustrating that Garmin continues to diss the most popular mobile OS. I understand that Apple jumped off to a head start with pilots with the iPad, but it boggles the mind that this difference still exists in 2015.
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The problem from a developers standpoint is Android is not "one" platform. It is dozens of popular variants. Because it is open source (by design) and the carriers and phone vendors are free to modify it, they do. And making software run on all of them is a pain. I would be willing to bet (a beer or something) that Garmin knows how many of both Android and iOS they support. And they do the math.

I've had an Android phone (Samsung Galaxy S3, when it was new) and I'm on my second iPhone. (5S, then 6). They've both had their stability issues. But the interfacing on the iPhone has been much more stable. As in the user interface doesn't change radically from release to release. And I can pick up any iOS based device and operate it. Which was not true of the various Android tablets I've used.

So calling it the "most popular platform" is not really correct. It's the most popular family of platforms. And there's the rub form a SW development perspective.

John
 
jsstevens said:
The problem from a developers standpoint is Android is not "one" platform. It is dozens of popular variants. Because it is open source (by design) and the carriers and phone vendors are free to modify it, they do. And making software run on all of them is a pain. I would be willing to bet (a beer or something) that Garmin knows how many of both Android and iOS they support. And they do the math.

I've had an Android phone (Samsung Galaxy S3, when it was new) and I'm on my second iPhone. (5S, then 6). They've both had their stability issues. But the interfacing on the iPhone has been much more stable. As in the user interface doesn't change radically from release to release. And I can pick up any iOS based device and operate it. Which was not true of the various Android tablets I've used.

So calling it the "most popular platform" is not really correct. It's the most popular family of platforms. And there's the rub form a SW development perspective.

John
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Well said John, I'd bet that beer the developers wish 'Droid would go away. Now, maybe it keeps them employed, but playing whack-a-mole can't be fun.
 
jsstevens said:
The problem from a developers standpoint is Android is not "one" platform. It is dozens of popular variants. Because it is open source (by design) and the carriers and phone vendors are free to modify it, they do. And making software run on all of them is a pain. I would be willing to bet (a beer or something) that Garmin knows how many of both Android and iOS they support. And they do the math.

I've had an Android phone (Samsung Galaxy S3, when it was new) and I'm on my second iPhone. (5S, then 6). They've both had their stability issues. But the interfacing on the iPhone has been much more stable. As in the user interface doesn't change radically from release to release. And I can pick up any iOS based device and operate it. Which was not true of the various Android tablets I've used.

So calling it the "most popular platform" is not really correct. It's the most popular family of platforms. And there's the rub form a SW development perspective.

John
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Well, then, given this reality Garmin should pick (let's say) the Top 3 Android variants, and run with it. Make Garmin Pilot run perfectly on the Nexus line, Samsung's stable of tablets, and whatever #3 is. Sony, or whomever.

And then post a disclaimer to the effect that "this software has not been tested on any other Android variant", blah blah blah.

After all, the Apple line is extraordinarily limited to just one manufacturer. I'm sure it's no hardship to limit the Android line to just three manufacturers.

This would eliminate Garmin's apparent programming problem, and would also help to focus the (tiny) aviation market. Win-win.
 
Jay Honeck said:
Well, then, given this reality Garmin should pick (let's say) the Top 3 Android variants, and run with it. Make Garmin Pilot run perfectly on the Nexus line, Samsung's stable of tablets, and whatever #3 is. Sony, or whomever.

And then post a disclaimer to the effect that "this software has not been tested on any other Android variant", blah blah blah.

After all, the Apple line is extraordinarily limited to just one manufacturer. I'm sure it's no hardship to limit the Android line to just three manufacturers.

This would eliminate Garmin's apparent programming problem, and would also help to focus the (tiny) aviation market. Win-win.
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Sounds reasonable until you realize that Samsung Android is not the same across Samsung. The carriers also modify the OS. I've had a Samsung S3 T-Mobile phone, my son has a Samsung S4 (I think, newer anyway) Verizon phone and I bought 3 Samsung WiFi tablets for church. All have different apps and interfaces. There is some commonality, but not as much as I'd have thought.

Even Google is getting tired of it. The carriers are modifying Android so Google can't mine it for data (which was Google's purpose all along). Google is building another OS which will not be open source to fix that problem. It may be better in this regard. We'll see.

I like Android. I wanted to use it for a number of R&D projects at work, but it's turned into a nightmare of compatibility issues.

John
 
jsstevens said:
Sounds reasonable until you realize that Samsung Android is not the same across Samsung. The carriers also modify the OS. I've had a Samsung S3 T-Mobile phone, my son has a Samsung S4 (I think, newer anyway) Verizon phone and I bought 3 Samsung WiFi tablets for church. All have different apps and interfaces. There is some commonality, but not as much as I'd have thought.

Even Google is getting tired of it. The carriers are modifying Android so Google can't mine it for data (which was Google's purpose all along). Google is building another OS which will not be open source to fix that problem. It may be better in this regard. We'll see.

I like Android. I wanted to use it for a number of R&D projects at work, but it's turned into a nightmare of compatibility issues.

John
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Interesting. Thanks for that information.

One data point: My GRT Horizon HXr EFIS only works with Android. I can emulate the EFIS on my tablet via Bluetooth, giving me a backseat EFIS for the cost of an Android tablet. (The best deal in aviation, bar none!) It also allows me to remotely control certain functions in the EFIS.

I wonder how Grand Rapids Technologies got around this issue?
 
I am no Android expert, but I did develop a few Android Apps, some for work and some for aviation (personal use). AFAIK, there isn't a wild jungle of Android platforms out there, simply a linear stretch that goes from the oldest to the newest (Lollipop) versions. When you develop your App, you specify your required compatibility window (oldest to newest), and your development environment coupled with the Google repositories (e.g. Google Play) will enforce that on your code (as far as the API you may use) and on the download targets (is their version within your specified window?).
Some old devices are limited to old versions, due to hardware limitations, so they are "stuck" in history, but most modern devices can generally be upgraded to the latest and greatest, AFAIK.
So as an Android App developer, you just need to decide what market share you want to cover, the farther back in time you go the larger that share, but also if you go back too far you'll be locked out of fancy new API features.
In the case of a company like Garmin (their Android App subcontractor I suppose), you can probably stay pretty close to the bleeding edge (Lollipop) and not lose too much market coverage, because very few users would insist on having their old stone-age phone support Garmin Pilot.
So as bottom line, I don't think GP is being impeded by the Android platform. My guess is that it's just political or business issues.
 
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So I just fired up GP to check the radar (we are in a monsoon down here) and that ridiculous "sign in to your Garmin account" crap came up again.

I finally went to the support screen, clicked on their email link, and fired off a sarcastically angry note to their Keystone Kops development team. Do they REALLY not understand that, as a stand-alone aviation app, it is often the case that we are unable to connect to the internet?

It boggles the mind.
 
Agreed. If they need to sync the config and/or verify the subscription, they can try to do it silently in background, and only complain if some weeks have gone by without any internet connection, and even then, politely ask for it.
 
Jay Honeck said:
So I just fired up GP to check the radar (we are in a monsoon down here) and that ridiculous "sign in to your Garmin account" crap came up again.

I finally went to the support screen, clicked on their email link, and fired off a sarcastically angry note to their Keystone Kops development team. Do they REALLY not understand that, as a stand-alone aviation app, it is often the case that we are unable to connect to the internet?

It boggles the mind.
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Yes! That's a pet peeve of mine too! Assuming the network is there doesn't just happen on mobile apps, although that's probably the worst. I travel with a laptop and usually don't want to pay $10-$15 dollars for internet for one night. (Higher end hotels charge, mid grade brands typically don't. What's up with that?) I can use my phone as a hot spot and I will if I need to but sometimes I'm just working. That shouldn't require the network. Sigh.

John
 
Because I wanted to be a curmudgeon, I emailed support about it it too, just now.
 
Looks like a fix for the NEXRAD problem. Its the GDL-39 firmware update 4.40 that hoses NEXRAD. If you remove and restore all the data for Garmin Pilot, NEXRAD display is restored once the GDL-39 is re-paired. I suspect that, unless GP has all its data erased, there may be a conflict between the old and new drivers for the GDL-39. We will see what tech support says. In the meantime, it's good to have NEXRAD again.
 
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RotorDude said:
In the case of a company like Garmin (their Android App subcontractor I suppose), you can probably stay pretty close to the bleeding edge (Lollipop) and not lose too much market coverage, because very few users would insist on having their old stone-age phone support Garmin Pilot.
So as bottom line, I don't think GP is being impeded by the Android platform. My guess is that it's just political or business issues.
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I think that for aviation applications, reliability is the key value and companies should stay a few years in back of the bleeding edge to get this. As for stone age phones, I don't have a smartphone. If I had one, I 'd hang on to it until it stopped working and then shop for as close as I could come to an exact replacement. As for Lollipop, it strikes me as an exercise in 1950s-style planned obsolescence -- the equivalent of putting tail fins on cars. It is bright and colorful, but otherwise far inferior to Kit Kat. Perhaps the best analogy for the behavior of today's computer firms is the "New Coke" fiasco.
 
Paul Hamilton said:
I think that for aviation applications, reliability is the key value and companies should stay a few years in back of the bleeding edge to get this. As for stone age phones, I don't have a smartphone. If I had one, I 'd hang on to it until it stopped working and then shop for as close as I could come to an exact replacement. As for Lollipop, it strikes me as an exercise in 1950s-style planned obsolescence -- the equivalent of putting tail fins on cars. It is bright and colorful, but otherwise far inferior to Kit Kat. Perhaps the best analogy for the behavior of today's computer firms is the "New Coke" fiasco.
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You might be overegging the pudding a bit. I can't see any huge difference between Lollipop and KitKat, with focus on GP. I just want GP to work on whatever is the latest Android standard. There are internal API improvements in Lollipop that are invisible to users but influence the reliability and performance of the apps that decide to use them.
As far as New Coke, that fiasco saved my life. I was an avid coke drinker up to that point, and when NC came out it tasted so horrible I was shocked and disgusted enough to kick the habit on the spot. When they later came out with the "Classic" version (after firing the guy that invented NC), it was too late for me, since I was off that stuff by then, for good. Not sure if applicable here, but brings back memories. :)
 
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