Garmin Pilot And tablet purchase advice

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MikeLima

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MikeLima
I have decided, I think, to move away from my ForeFlight and iPad combination and go a different direction this year.

Assuming that I will go with Garmin Pilot, what tablet/device should I be looking at to obtain the best utility on the ground and in the air? Anything to watch for a stay away from?

Any and all advice will be appreciated.

ML
 
I’m trying to obtain information or advice about which of the many products available for purchase in the field of tablets is a good fit for aviation and, particularly, Garmin Pilot.

I apologize for the lack of clarity in my original post.
 
Again, I see I haven’t been as clear as I meant to be: I’m looking for recommendations other than iPad.
 
I have a Samsung Galaxy phone that it works well on. I have used my kids HP Chromebook and it also worked well. Both paired with a GDL (the older one, I think a 50)

Tim

Sent from my SM-J737T using Tapatalk
 
No idea, only tablets I’ve seen people in aviation use are iPads.
 
I've been using an 8" Samsung Galaxy Tab S2 for a couple years...It replaced my previous 7" Android tablet (Nexus) for GP. Works great with a GDL39.

Jim
 
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MikeLima said:
Again, I see I haven’t been as clear as I meant to be: I’m looking for recommendations other than iPad.
Click to expand...
If you are going to move to Android, stick with the main known brands. You are not dealing with the same level of quality control as you are with iOS. Samsung, Asus, Huawei, a very few others are reliable choices. Don't skimp on cost by buying a base model.

My backup Android Is a Galaxy Tab A. If I were using it for primary, it would be an S.

You didn't ask about apps, but be aware Pilot for Android is typically a few feature steps behind the iOS version. What else have you been looking at?
 
Garmin pilot on both iPhone and galaxy tab A 8 i think. The 8 replaced a google nexus tablet which served me well for a while. The 8 is not the fastest but it works just fine in flight.
 
I use Avare(Free) on a Samsung S5 phone and a Samsung Galaxy Tab A. I am only flying VFR. Does everything I need.
 
I haven’t really been looking at anything and will take whatever guidance I can get at this point.

The situation is that the iPad I’ve been using with ForeFlight is soon to be gone. I very briefly started to shop for a replacement iPad when I decided to look at other options... at about the same I sold my plane and am looking for a replacement plane. Because I may be purchasing a Garmin portable gps in the replacement (trying to get a contract on the plane now), I thought I might want to go with Garmin Pilot and a different tablet as to make full use of that... but even if that doesn’t go through, I thought I’d like to see at what Cost I could get into a tablet and Garmin Pilot instead of going with an iPad. When I started looking at those it became apparent that my lack of knowledge in the subject was going to mean I would spend a lot of time researching... so in an attempt to abbreviate that process, I posted here to try to make less steep the learning curve.
 
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Cheap=Tab A. 199 at Bestbuy now on sale.
Performance=S2/3

Both have built in GPS, if that matters.

Tab A is only 16Gb. Has a card slot I think though. Some report certain apps only let you use built-in storage though. I don't have any experience with it so I'm not sure about that.

If money isnt a concern the S3 will be the best performer.

Good luck.... I'm not an iPad fan either but I still use one, only due to aviation apps.
 
Skyrys62 said:
Cheap=Tab A. 199 at Bestbuy now on sale.
Performance=S2/3

Both have built in GPS, if that matters.

Tab A is only 16Gb. Has a card slot I think though. Some report certain apps only let you use built-in storage though. I don't have any experience with it so I'm not sure about that.
Click to expand...
Yes, it has a card slot. I have a 32 Gb Card there but it will take larger. Whether a particular app can use the storage - one would have to ask the app developer. I can say that iFlyGPS, AvNavEFB, DroidEFB and FltPln Go! do.
 
@MikeLima, weve been using a ipad mini 4 and a Samsung galaxy s2 (8") both running Garmin Pilot and GDL393D.

The ipad mini 4 battery will last longer than the Android. And ipad mini 4 will render the more complex screens more smoothly. Makes sense, ios is written in native compiled code vs runtime byte code interpreted java.

But for each flight, well over 100 now we use the Android and ipad is the backup.

Why the Android?

First off, the screen is just plain sharper, more contrast and brighter. So with our panel mount we can see it well enough in tne brightest conditions. Also, the Android has a internal GPS which is a great built in backup to the GDL. I know you can get a ipad mini with 4g to get the internal GPS but it seems those are more used and new.

Actually we have a verizon jetpack so both tablets have 4G if needed. When not flying, the jetpack is our internet for remote heating and hangar security cameras.

There are several differences between the andoid and apple versions of Pilot. The apple version has a few more features but the Android seems to have the better done smal, stuff like horizontal scrolling of many data values at the top of the map and more gdl weather station overlay options on the map.

The only times we use ipad is for flight profiles (was useful for trip to Rapid City) and SynViz as it renders faster. But there are at least 2 SynViz issues.

The first is unique to the IPad. When switching from SynViz to another view it gets stuck. You have to totally kill the app which isnt quite as simple as it sounds.

The second i have only observed on ipad (thats all i tried lately). The synviz drops in and out during flight. Im starting to think its when there is more motor vibration but not sure. Others have had this same issue. I have never heard of stratus + foreflight doing this. So its probably a gdl issue or something unique to gdl and pilot.

I think the biggest issue with Android + Pilot is i periodically see incorrect wind corrections. Ill load the same plan on the ipad and android and given a quick look at winds aloft its obvious the android has it wrong. If garmin is gonna fix a bug..fix this one.

Oh yeah, about 2yrs back we had trial versions of Pilot and Foreflight. Both my wife and i liked Pilot better so we are not expert users of Foreflight. And the all too obvious obsolesnce strategy on Apples part, after 2 ipads, we bailed. But our 2 old S4 phones and 2 old android tablets are still used every day. Add in the fact we have thrown in cheap micro sd cards and never out of memory and its real hard to consider a apple product again (our opinion only).

Our next tablet will be the fastest Samsung 8" version and i think the ipad mini 4 may become obsolete. But no rush for now.
 
I've been using a Samsung Galaxy Tab 3 for a few years and it's been rocksolid connecting to both wifi and bluetooth ads-b in gadgets. Also has a pretty good internal gps. Runs Android 4.4.2 so I can store AVARE chart data on the card. Battery life has never been great, but it really bites now. Any recommendations on good replacement 4000mah lithium ion batteries? Does price matter, or are they commodities? Seen them from $9 to $40. $40 is more than the tab is worth.
 
MikeLima said:
I have decided, I think, to move away from my ForeFlight and iPad combination and go a different direction this year.

Assuming that I will go with Garmin Pilot, what tablet/device should I be looking at to obtain the best utility on the ground and in the air? Anything to watch for a stay away from?

Any and all advice will be appreciated.

ML
Click to expand...
I have been an Android user since giving up my Blackberry about a decade back, and started flying again in 2015 after a 12-year hiatus. I promptly subscribed to the Garmin product because Foreflight was not and still is not supported on android devices. My subscription allows me to use the app on 3-devices, so I've kept it on whatever Samsung phones I'm carrying, and a Samsung Note 8 tablet and that my daughter cast off. The battery crapped out on the tablet on way to KOSH last summer, so I've transitioned to an IPad mini that my daughter has also cast aside (yes, the breadwinner gets the hand-me-downs). There are a few things I like about the iOS version even though I remain more comfortable with the Android version. I've been tempted to buy a newer Samsung tablet (Tab 8) to serve as a back-up to the mini-pad. Any of these fit nicely into the Ram yoke mount that I use in the Archer, without obscuring the panel. Most of my flying friends are tethered to their Foreflight and iOS, but Garmin pilot addresses all of my needs and it ends up costing a bit less because the app is discounted when you subscribe to the OnePak license for our two navigators.
 
MikeLima said:
Again, I see I haven’t been as clear as I meant to be: I’m looking for recommendations other than iPad.
Click to expand...

I used to use Garmin Pilot on a Samsung tablet, it would lock up and reboot several times a flight, maybe it was the version of Garmin Pilot I was on at the time but it just wasn't stable enough for me. Also, you get more features on the iOS version of Garmin Pilot, the newest features always come to the iOS version first. I finally broke down and bought a mini 4 iPad, it's been stable and works fine.

I am NOT an iOS guy, I have Samsung phones and love them, but, in this case I'd reconsider going with an Android tablet.
 
Skyrys62 said:
Cheap=Tab A. 199 at Bestbuy now on sale.
Performance=S2/3

Both have built in GPS, if that matters.

Tab A is only 16Gb. Has a card slot I think though. Some report certain apps only let you use built-in storage though. I don't have any experience with it so I'm not sure about that.

If money isnt a concern the S3 will be the best performer.

Good luck.... I'm not an iPad fan either but I still use one, only due to aviation apps.
Click to expand...

midlifeflyer said:
Yes, it has a card slot. I have a 32 Gb Card there but it will take larger. Whether a particular app can use the storage - one would have to ask the app developer. I can say that iFlyGPS, AvNavEFB, DroidEFB and FltPln Go! do.
Click to expand...

I've got a Tab A that I've been running for a couple years. I have a 64 GB uSD card in the slot. Garmin Pilot will use that if you select it. Works great and has plenty of space left, even with virtually all the databases selected and downloaded.

I replaced the battery in it a couple weeks ago as the original was starting to show its age. Follow the instructions you can easily find on-line for the replacement process and it isn't bad. Even I managed to do it without damaging the tablet.
 
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MikeLima said:
I haven’t really been looking at anything and will take whatever guidance I can get at this point.

The situation is that the iPad I’ve been using with ForeFlight is soon to be gone. I very briefly started to shop for a replacement iPad when I decided to look at other options... at about the same I sold my plane and am looking for a replacement plane. Because I may be purchasing a Garmin portable gps in the replacement (trying to get a contract on the plane now), I thought I might want to go with Garmin Pilot and a different tablet as to make full use of that... but even if that doesn’t go through, I thought I’d like to see at what Cost I could get into a tablet and Garmin Pilot instead of going with an iPad. When I started looking at those it became apparent that my lack of knowledge in the subject was going to mean I would spend a lot of time researching... so in an attempt to abbreviate that process, I posted here to try to make less steep the learning curve.
Click to expand...

GBSoren said:
Also, you get more features on the iOS version of Garmin Pilot, the newest features always come to the iOS version first. I finally broke down and bought a mini 4 iPad, it's been stable and works fine.

I am NOT an iOS guy, I have Samsung phones and love them, but, in this case I'd reconsider going with an Android tablet.
Click to expand...

That's what I was going to say... But to the OP @MikeLima, before that iPad is gone, just download Garmin Pilot and give it a try. You may find you don't like it, and it would kind of suck to find out you'd rather have ForeFlight *after* you bought an Android!

Also, the best tablet for Garmin Pilot is... An iPad. As mentioned elsewhere, the new stuff comes to the iPad first and the iPad version has more features, likely because on the iPad side they need to compete with ForeFlight and they don't have that competition on the Android side.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Sometimes it's about the app, not OS worship.
Click to expand...

Agreed. It is largely due to the developer's attention to details. I have noticed that Garmin Pilot developers pay less attention to the Android version than the iOS version. I've reported bugs several months ago, and they are still not updated.
 
Ghery said:
I've got a Tab A that I've been running for a couple years. I have a 64 GB uSD card in the slot. Garmin Pilot will use that if you select it. Works great and has plenty of space left, even with virtually all the databases selected and downloaded.

I replaced the battery in it a couple weeks ago as the original was starting to show its age. Follow the instructions you can easily find on-line for the replacement process and it isn't bad. Even I managed to do it without damaging the tablet.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your encouraging post using Galaxy Tab A. I plan to buy one soon and hope it's a reliable compliment the IFR certified avionics. My end-game is to get Synthetic Vision and ADS-B-IN benefits displayed on a Galaxy Tab A (Verizon).

I'm new to both ADS-B IN/OUT and Garmin Pilot thanks to the GTX-345 recently installed in my Twin Cessna. Apparently Garmin only officially supports Galaxy and Google Nexus devices and the Galaxy Tab A is the right form factor to replace my old 8" tablet running DroidEFB. DroidEFB works great but won't have Synthetic Vision any time soon.

I'd be happy to hear any performance comments on Garmin Pilot Synthetic vision running on the Galaxy Tab A Tablet.
 
I am a Android user. I'm okay with iOS, just not my first choice. However, when it comes to Garmin SynVis on a Android vs iPad, the Ipad will render it faster. Sure a really old iPad vs the latest Android might play out better. We have a faster Android tablet than the Galaxy Tab A you have and the SynVis is choppy and freezes a lot vs the Ipad Mini 4 which is buttery smooth......EXCEPT.....for some time now the iPad version just glitches and then catches up again. Still not sure if its the GDL firmware, GDL hardware or the Garmin Pilot after many updates. And it gets even worse quicker if you up to the Garmin Pilot high resolution terrain map. The iPads are running native code where the Android tablet is running byte code (interpreted at runtime).

But....the display on our Android, the extra storage and built in GPS (a backup to the GDL or 345) is much preferred. So we panel mount the Android and use the iPad mini as our backup. If we want to show off or just fiddle with SynVis we panel mount the iPad and lay the Android someplace for map view as needed.

We are queued up for a Garmin 345 in a few months. It will be interesting to see if spending $8K will solve my $200 table SynVis problem (that is sarcasm BTW).
 
MikeLima said:
Assuming that I will go with Garmin Pilot, what tablet/device should I be looking at to obtain the best utility on the ground and in the air? Anything to watch for a stay away from?
Click to expand...

I think you pretty much have to consider a Samsung Galaxy of some kind at this point.

Personally, I used to like ASUS' MemoPad, including in particular the one they made for Google as "Nexus 7". However, in recent years they mudded the waters too much by selling completely different devices under the same name. As a result, I cannot recommend anyone "ASUS MemoPad Such-and-such", because when you get to the store armed with such a referral, you can end buying complete garbage.

Currently I'm using a Huawei M3. I bought it because its outstanding display. The battery life is great too. Its GPS performance is adequate. However, their software is rather poorly designed in places. In particular, the tablet has an edge power button, and it's so large that a person holding it will touch the schreen with a palm. And, their software is drek, as I mentioned. Long story short, I passed the Huawei to my daugher to hold while we were boarding, and she factory-reset it. We only found it in the air. I had to land somewhere, find WiFi, reinstall everything.
 
zaitcev said:
I think you pretty much have to consider a Samsung Galaxy of some kind at this point.

Personally, I used to like ASUS' MemoPad, including in particular the one they made for Google as "Nexus 7". However, in recent years they mudded the waters too much by selling completely different devices under the same name. As a result, I cannot recommend anyone "ASUS MemoPad Such-and-such", because when you get to the store armed with such a referral, you can end buying complete garbage.

Currently I'm using a Huawei M3. I bought it because its outstanding display. The battery life is great too. Its GPS performance is adequate. However, their software is rather poorly designed in places. In particular, the tablet has an edge power button, and it's so large that a person holding it will touch the schreen with a palm. And, their software is drek, as I mentioned. Long story short, I passed the Huawei to my daugher to hold while we were boarding, and she factory-reset it. We only found it in the air. I had to land somewhere, find WiFi, reinstall everything.
Click to expand...
Isn't all that drek software actually just collecting all your credit cards, passwords and learning about the WIFI everywhere you go...you know like the bank or defense job you work at :)
 
Sinistar said:
I am a Android user. I'm okay with iOS, just not my first choice. However, when it comes to Garmin SynVis on a Android vs iPad, the Ipad will render it faster. Sure a really old iPad vs the latest Android might play out better. We have a faster Android tablet than the Galaxy Tab A you have and the SynVis is choppy and freezes a lot vs the Ipad Mini 4 which is buttery smooth......EXCEPT.....for some time now the iPad version just glitches and then catches up again. Still not sure if its the GDL firmware, GDL hardware or the Garmin Pilot after many updates. And it gets even worse quicker if you up to the Garmin Pilot high resolution terrain map. The iPads are running native code where the Android tablet is running byte code (interpreted at runtime).

But....the display on our Android, the extra storage and built in GPS (a backup to the GDL or 345) is much preferred. So we panel mount the Android and use the iPad mini as our backup. If we want to show off or just fiddle with SynVis we panel mount the iPad and lay the Android someplace for map view as needed.

We are queued up for a Garmin 345 in a few months. It will be interesting to see if spending $8K will solve my $200 table SynVis problem (that is sarcasm BTW).
Click to expand...

Its a shame Garmin would deploy a bytecode aviation App & the product manager probably isn't a pilot. I'll corroborate your findings after testing my GTX-345 with the Galaxy Tab A ($187.09) and Garmin Pilot's SynVis. If the SynVis is unbearable the iPad Mini wins where a refurbished one is about $200. Hopefully over time Garmin will drop the dime for native code or DroidEFB gets SynVis. Which ever comes first gets the $$.
 
Does Garmin Pilot have built in performance profiles for aircraft? I use Foreflight now, but I don't want to pay $300/year for performance, and while I could build a custom profile, I don't feel that I can input enough data for accurate flight planning.
 
Groundpounder said:
Does Garmin Pilot have built in performance profiles for aircraft? I use Foreflight now, but I don't want to pay $300/year for performance, and while I could build a custom profile, I don't feel that I can input enough data for accurate flight planning.
Click to expand...

What do you fly? Unless you've got a turbine or a turbo, you don't need the fancy performance version of ForeFlight. You'll still be within a minute or two and a gallon even with the basic performance engine. The Performance version of ForeFlight is better for airplanes that have to climb and descend for a long time and have significantly different airspeed and fuel burn at different altitudes - IE, airplanes that whine. ;)

The basic/pro versions of ForeFlight only require you to input climb airspeed/rate/fuel burn, cruise airspeed/rate/fuel burn, and descent airspeed/rate/fuel burn... And that's plenty accurate for a normally aspirated piston airplane.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
What do you fly? Unless you've got a turbine or a turbo, you don't need the fancy performance version of ForeFlight. You'll still be within a minute or two and a gallon even with the basic performance engine. The Performance version of ForeFlight is better for airplanes that have to climb and descend for a long time and have significantly different airspeed and fuel burn at different altitudes - IE, airplanes that whine. ;)

The basic/pro versions of ForeFlight only require you to input climb airspeed/rate/fuel burn, cruise airspeed/rate/fuel burn, and descent airspeed/rate/fuel burn... And that's plenty accurate for a normally aspirated piston airplane.
Click to expand...

Hopefully an F33A starting next week :)

You raise some good points, but it would still be nice being able to have performance data for a single engine piston without paying $300/year.
 
Groundpounder said:
Does Garmin Pilot have built in performance profiles for aircraft? I use Foreflight now, but I don't want to pay $300/year for performance, and while I could build a custom profile, I don't feel that I can input enough data for accurate flight planning.
Click to expand...
Maybe it doesn't do what you are after. But I know when I specify our aircraft type (182) I then enter MP and prop RPM as input data for cruise and then it seems to select a cruise speed and fuel burn. That came out probably about half a year ago or more. I know it does this on the iPad version, can't remember if it does on the Android version.
 
Vwilkins said:
Its a shame Garmin would deploy a bytecode aviation App & the product manager probably isn't a pilot. I'll corroborate your findings after testing my GTX-345 with the Galaxy Tab A ($187.09) and Garmin Pilot's SynVis. If the SynVis is unbearable the iPad Mini wins where a refurbished one is about $200. Hopefully over time Garmin will drop the dime for native code or DroidEFB gets SynVis. Which ever comes first gets the $$.
Click to expand...
I don't think they have much of a choice. Its the fact they are running it on a Android and need to use Java. Perhaps there is some way to compile it one last time to native code but I suspect not otherwise they start having compatibility problems from one processor to the next.

I hope I am wrong. Maybe I am doing something wrong. But the Android version is just not very snappy for SynViz. And gets worse with the high resolution terrain database. Here lies some irony. With the GDL393D I can test the "snappiness" while sitting down in the living room. It just dawned on me that for you to try out your setup you're gonna need to fly (nice problem though).

Where you will like the iPad mini 4 is SynViz rendering, terrain rendering and battery life. I posted quite a while back on a comparison. If you fly a Android at max screen brightness vs the iPad mini at max brightness I think you will get between 3...4hrs on the Android. The iPad will last another hour or so! But that wonderful Android screen is so much nicer to look at.

Actually, the fastest / smoothest 3D SynViz rendering I have seen (on a tablet) was on my instructor's Stratus and a full size iPad running ForeFlight. Now that was smooth. I'm guessing the big iPad had a much faster processor. But maybe the stratus was also updating position/pitch/roll faster as well.
 
Groundpounder said:
Hopefully an F33A starting next week :)

You raise some good points, but it would still be nice being able to have performance data for a single engine piston without paying $300/year.
Click to expand...

Again - You *will* have performance data... It'll tell you how long the flight will take, how much fuel you'll burn, etc.

To give you an idea of why you don't need the Performance plan for a normally aspirated piston single... I'll run through a couple of flights I've taken recently of different lengths, and see what the difference is. The ForeFlight Performance profiles are the ones that are built in, the By-Altitude profiles are the ones where you enter a ton of data yourself manually (and also requires the Performance subscription), and the Basic profile is the quick-entry one that's used in the Basic and Pro plans. IMO, the Performance one for my plane is a bit optimistic, but the only adjustment you can make is a slider with a ±20% adjustment for cruise speed and cruise fuel flow.

Short flight: KUES-C29 (57nm) at 6500 feet
ForeFlight Performance profile: 28 minutes, 8.1 gallons
ForeFlight By-Altitude profile: 30 minutes, 9.3 gallons
ForeFlight Basic profile: 29 minutes, 9.2 gallons

Short-Medium flight: KEFD-KJSO (135nm) at 6500 feet
ForeFlight Performance profile: 51 minutes, 12.8 gallons
ForeFlight By-Altitude profile: 53 minutes, 13.9 gallons
ForeFlight Basic profile: 53 minutes, 14.1 gallons

Medium flight: KUES-KCNB (363nm) at 9000 feet
ForeFlight Performance profile: 2:01, 31.3 gallons
ForeFlight By-Altitude profile: 2:31, 33.5 gallons
ForeFlight Basic profile: 2:29, 33.9 gallons

Long flight: KJSO - KUES (747nm) at 9000 feet
ForeFlight Performance profile: 3:43, 48.2 gallons
ForeFlight By-Altitude profile: 3:48, 48.7 gallons
ForeFlight Basic profile: 3:49, 50.2 gallons

If we accept the By-Altitude profile as reality (and I think it's pretty close - I'll have to test it next time) then the Basic is actually closer than Performance on my plane.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Again - You *will* have performance data... It'll tell you how long the flight will take, how much fuel you'll burn, etc.

To give you an idea of why you don't need the Performance plan for a normally aspirated piston single... I'll run through a couple of flights I've taken recently of different lengths, and see what the difference is. The ForeFlight Performance profiles are the ones that are built in, the By-Altitude profiles are the ones where you enter a ton of data yourself manually (and also requires the Performance subscription), and the Basic profile is the quick-entry one that's used in the Basic and Pro plans. IMO, the Performance one for my plane is a bit optimistic, but the only adjustment you can make is a slider with a ±20% adjustment for cruise speed and cruise fuel flow.

Short flight: KUES-C29 (57nm) at 6500 feet
ForeFlight Performance profile: 28 minutes, 8.1 gallons
ForeFlight By-Altitude profile: 30 minutes, 9.3 gallons
ForeFlight Basic profile: 29 minutes, 9.2 gallons

Short-Medium flight: KEFD-KJSO (135nm) at 6500 feet
ForeFlight Performance profile: 51 minutes, 12.8 gallons
ForeFlight By-Altitude profile: 53 minutes, 13.9 gallons
ForeFlight Basic profile: 53 minutes, 14.1 gallons

Medium flight: KUES-KCNB (363nm) at 9000 feet
ForeFlight Performance profile: 2:01, 31.3 gallons
ForeFlight By-Altitude profile: 2:31, 33.5 gallons
ForeFlight Basic profile: 2:29, 33.9 gallons

Long flight: KJSO - KUES (747nm) at 9000 feet
ForeFlight Performance profile: 3:43, 48.2 gallons
ForeFlight By-Altitude profile: 3:48, 48.7 gallons
ForeFlight Basic profile: 3:49, 50.2 gallons

If we accept the By-Altitude profile as reality (and I think it's pretty close - I'll have to test it next time) then the Basic is actually closer than Performance on my plane.
Click to expand...

Thank you for that data sir! I guess I will not worry about it than much then.
 
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