Garmin G600 and G900X = WOW

TangoWhiskey

TangoWhiskey

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Garmin has introduced the G600, which is a G1000-like glass panel setup DESIGNED to fit into the standard 6-pack space on existing GA piston-engine planes for field retrofit... their tagline for this is that flying a glass panel doesn't have to mean buying a new plane:

http://www.garmin.com/products/g600/
Press release with pricing: http://www.garmin.com/pressroom/aviation/072306a.html

They've also introduced the G900X, which is a G1000 designed for installation in specific HOMEBUILTS like the RV-7, RV-9, RV-10, or Lancair.

http://www.garmin.com/products/g900x/
Press release with pricing: http://www.garmin.com/pressroom/aviation/072306b.html

WOW! This company never ceases to amaze me!

Since the G900X is over $65K and the G600 is under $30K, I wonder if the G600 will be available for purchase/install in homebuilts the same way a 430 would be...
 
HOLY FREAKING WOW!

Come on, how in the hell of todays desktops that are as powerful as old Cray computers can they justify 90K for this? I mean dayum, that is MORE then most used single-engine planes, hell it is almost as much as a brand new LSA complete aircraft!

Nice or not, I will stick with the six-pack and a portable system.
 
tdager said:
HOLY FREAKING WOW!

Come on, how in the hell of todays desktops that are as powerful as old Cray computers can they justify 90K for this? I mean dayum, that is MORE then most used single-engine planes, hell it is almost as much as a brand new LSA complete aircraft!

Nice or not, I will stick with the six-pack and a portable system.
Click to expand...

Where are you seeing $90K? The price for the G600 glass-retrofit system is $29,772 (MSRP) according to the press release. Lots of pilots spend that kind of money upgrading avionics systems, even in our piston-engine GA planes, especially the higher-end "travelling" machines.
 
And when you have to kill the master switch because you see white smoke...
 
Lots of talk about this on the Beechlist and a very luke warm reception.
Lots of guys have already done parties upgrades and don't know how this will fit--for instance, you saw our panel on the P-Baron--we have a 530/430 and Sandel. Why would we purchase this for 30K plus installation plus redesign the panel? I believe the 30K is just the cost for the new 600. Not sure, but I believe you still need a 530/430 to interface and I'm not sure there's an auto pilot connection.

Anyway, lot's of guys have lots of questions and the initial reaction isn't as stong as one might think.

Plane in otherwise good shape with old avionics could be a good fit, but for those of us that have been upgrading, it's expensive and our upgrades may not fit.

Best,

Dave
 
Oh, several folks have been waiting for WASS upgrades for units and GDL69 upgrades to allow display of all XM weather. Guess they have a little sour taste in their mouth after months and months of promises. Perhaps it's filtering over a bit.

Dave
 
Troy Whistman said:
Where are you seeing $90K? The price for the G600 glass-retrofit system is $29,772 (MSRP) according to the press release. Lots of pilots spend that kind of money upgrading avionics systems, even in our piston-engine GA planes, especially the higher-end "travelling" machines.
Click to expand...

Sorry..read a previous post wrong.

Still, as a pilot owner wannabe that plans on spending 50k for the WHOLE PLANE, it is just severe sticker shock to see just avionics costing that much.
 
Dave Siciliano said:
Lots of talk about this on the Beechlist and a very luke warm reception.
Lots of guys have already done parties upgrades and don't know how this will fit--for instance, you saw our panel on the P-Baron--we have a 530/430 and Sandel. Why would we purchase this for 30K plus installation plus redesign the panel? I believe the 30K is just the cost for the new 600. Not sure, but I believe you still need a 530/430 to interface and I'm not sure there's an auto pilot connection.

Anyway, lot's of guys have lots of questions and the initial reaction isn't as stong as one might think.

Plane in otherwise good shape with old avionics could be a good fit, but for those of us that have been upgrading, it's expensive and our upgrades may not fit.

Best,

Dave
Click to expand...

Well, from what I was reading, you keep the 530 & 430 anyway cause the 600 doesn't have its own radios. I like it, If I didn't have any radios already, I'd probably use it with a 480 & a 530, and get the GWX 68 radar and skip the rest of the extras except terain. You can take the Sandel and FD/AI and move them to the right. It would take a panel rework, but I have built a 2 pilot panel in a Baron before, you just have to go with small engine instruments. It comes out looking cool as well. Not cheap, but when compared to the rest of the panel, a pittance. You get a fair bit of space to work with in a Baron. The thing that dissapoints me about this system is the terain mapping isn't integrated into the forward view of the PFD. Why is there only one system around that does this? If the database is there to show the terrain from a down view and relate your altitude by changing the colors of things above and far below you, it should damn well be able to map it in an ahead view in 3D even. Wolfenstien was how many years ago? The prices are pretty steep as well, but there are options if you have more time and ambition than money. I saw a panel a guy did for an experimental. Panasonic ruggedized mil-spec laptop hooked up to a 10.4 sunlight viewable touchscreen. Nice little gyro box and multi view synthetic vision. You could have standard EFIS view or you could view from behind the aircraft as well so you can see what the plane is doing. Very intuitive settup. He had a radar overlay with a radar he cobbled together (that's actually his day job, radar technician for ships). His flight software ran a Jeppessen database, same I guess as everyone else uses, and you saw the mountains in front of you. Why can't a $35,000 (plus Radar) unit do what this $15,000 (with Radar) does? There is a commercial unit that has at least the forward terrain view as well, and they all run the same database to my knowledge. Is there a reason this isn't being done? The aft view is another that should be looked at. With that, there is no more situational interpretation. A glance tells you everything in a split second. It could even allow approaches to be charted in 3D ahead as a translucent 'pipe'. There's no real reason panels can't be in 3D synthetic view.
 
Henning said:
The thing that dissapoints me about this system is the terain mapping isn't integrated into the forward view of the PFD. Why is there only one system around that does this? <snip> There's no real reason panels can't be in 3D synthetic view.
Click to expand...

Garmin, as I understand it, is working on software to present this view (like the Chelton), and a future upgrade to the G1000 (and, presumably, the G600 and 900X, now) will have this forward-view 3D terrain.

I agree, it looks cool on the Chelton. Of course, it's over $50K for their screens... YIKES. I'd have to be rich AND doing a lot of mountain IFR to make that kind of investment. Here in Texas, it just don't make a lot of sense!
 
Troy Whistman said:
Garmin, as I understand it, is working on software to present this view (like the Chelton), and a future upgrade to the G1000 (and, presumably, the G600 and 900X, now) will have this forward-view 3D terrain.

I agree, it looks cool on the Chelton. Of course, it's over $50K for their screens... YIKES. I'd have to be rich AND doing a lot of mountain IFR to make that kind of investment. Here in Texas, it just don't make a lot of sense!
Click to expand...

I don't much trust Garmin about upgrades. I wouldn't have minded it in TX flying pipeline on less than optmal visibility days. There's plenty of hills and bluffs to bite.
 
Just installed a G600 in Cessan T210M. See the photo gallary, do search for G600 or try
http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=313&c=5

The G600 is truly amazing. You can have it configured to display the airplane right on the instrument procedures. If you do not choose this option, flight charts are displayed where you can zoom into the charts. With the GDL 69 you can display weather on the 600 and 530. We chose to have XM weather and radio on the 496 which is installed in the radio rack. When you enter a flight plan into the Garmin 530 it transfers to the G600 and 496. The wind vector is displayed on the G600 and 530.

This photo was taken on flight from KLIT to KLBL with a final destination in Denver.
 
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We were actually just talking about installing a G600 in the P-Baron.

But $30,000 just for parts? I'm sure installation isn't trivial and probably takes a few weeks and another $10k. It's really hard to justify that sort of expense for equipment that doesn't really give you that many added capabilities.

There are some reliability problems with the Aspen units, but at the same time, they're far easier to install and cost 1/3 of the G600. Granted, you also get a much smaller single screen, but I'm not sure that the difference is large enough to justify the extra $30k for the G600.

-Felix
 
sba55 said:
We were actually just talking about installing a G600 in the P-Baron.

But $30,000 just for parts? I'm sure installation isn't trivial and probably takes a few weeks and another $10k. It's really hard to justify that sort of expense for equipment that doesn't really give you that many added capabilities.

There are some reliability problems with the Aspen units, but at the same time, they're far easier to install and cost 1/3 of the G600. Granted, you also get a much smaller single screen, but I'm not sure that the difference is large enough to justify the extra $30k for the G600.
Click to expand...

Not to mention, the Aspen gives you a lot more flexibility, you can have multiple ADAHRS, you can do it piecemeal, you can buy a low-end unit and upgrade later, the install is cheaper, etc. etc. etc.

Garmin would have really had something if they'd have started SHIPPING the G600 at OSH 2006 where they introduced it. As it was, Aspen beat them to the Shipping part - I don't think Garmin is going to make a whole lot of money off G600 retrofits. :no:
 
Those that are members of the AOPA red board,.. go check out Av Shiloh's Turbo Comanche,.. wow,.. he has the G600, 530, 430, 496, and a ton of other cool things to drool over. :arf: His first flight reports were that the system was fantastic, and it was an adjustment to fly with. He flew to the AOPA Expo and just returned back late last night, I'm sure he'll have more to chime in on how it flies.

Oh,.. and he had an Aspen install, not long ago, and replaced it with the G600. Go check out the pics in this thread:
http://forums.aopa.org/showthread.php?t=48632 :eek:
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Not to mention, the Aspen gives you a lot more flexibility, you can have multiple ADAHRS, you can do it piecemeal, you can buy a low-end unit and upgrade later, the install is cheaper, etc. etc. etc.

Garmin would have really had something if they'd have started SHIPPING the G600 at OSH 2006 where they introduced it. As it was, Aspen beat them to the Shipping part - I don't think Garmin is going to make a whole lot of money off G600 retrofits. :no:
Click to expand...
We originally was planning on the Aspen, but we did not want to wait for the MFD. If you compare the Aspen three tube install versus the G600 then you are comparing apples to apples and are comparable pricing. Initially Aspen had premature failures. This made a no brainer decision to go with the G600. Install price was not bad.
 
sba55 said:
We were actually just talking about installing a G600 in the P-Baron.

But $30,000 just for parts? I'm sure installation isn't trivial and probably takes a few weeks and another $10k. It's really hard to justify that sort of expense for equipment that doesn't really give you that many added capabilities.

There are some reliability problems with the Aspen units, but at the same time, they're far easier to install and cost 1/3 of the G600. Granted, you also get a much smaller single screen, but I'm not sure that the difference is large enough to justify the extra $30k for the G600.

-Felix
Click to expand...
Send me a private email and we can discuss the G600 install in further details.
 
sba55 said:
We were actually just talking about installing a G600 in the P-Baron.
Click to expand...

So does that mean you bought it? ;)

But $30,000 just for parts? I'm sure installation isn't trivial and probably takes a few weeks and another $10k. It's really hard to justify that sort of expense for equipment that doesn't really give you that many added capabilities.

There are some reliability problems with the Aspen units, but at the same time, they're far easier to install and cost 1/3 of the G600. Granted, you also get a much smaller single screen, but I'm not sure that the difference is large enough to justify the extra $30k for the G600.
Click to expand...

Yeah, $30k for the G600 is a bit much. Doing an Aspen and a 430 or 530 would save you some money and you'd still get the moving map. It's all a question of just how much you want to update your cockpit. I'm personally happy with steam gauges and a 430, but an Aspen would be neat.
 
I think there's room for the Aspen and the Garmin. Aspen is a "buy what you need, build as you go" system that will be popular with folks who want a smaller upgrade with less bite on the wallet. Garmin will be popular with folks who have the $$$ and want the strength of the company to rely on.

The biggest gotcha with retrofit glass is that for King and Century autopilots you still need your original attitude indicator, because that's what's certified to drive the autopilot computer. I'd love to see Garmin introduce a stand-alone autoflight module based on the GFC700 and certify it to work with the G600 (first) AND the Aspen.
 
Rob Schaffer said:
Those that are members of the AOPA red board,.. go check out Av Shiloh's Turbo Comanche,.. wow,.. he has the G600, 530, 430, 496, and a ton of other cool things to drool over. :arf: His first flight reports were that the system was fantastic, and it was an adjustment to fly with. He flew to the AOPA Expo and just returned back late last night, I'm sure he'll have more to chime in on how it flies.

Oh,.. and he had an Aspen install, not long ago, and replaced it with the G600. Go check out the pics in this thread:
http://forums.aopa.org/showthread.php?t=48632 :eek:
Click to expand...

Holy cow! Av had a nice plane to begin with, but... WOW! Gawd, to have a Sandel as your BACKUP? Man, I wish that plane was mine!

EDIT: Man, what an awesome airplane. Check out FlightAware. He flew cross country - literally - coming home from AOPA expo, San Jose, CA to Philly in one day, 14.7 hours chock to chock, one stop of 2.4 hours (or 12.3 total flight time). I want one!
 
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flyingcheesehead said:
Holy cow! Av had a nice plane to begin with, but... WOW!
Click to expand...

Well, at least he's not worried about getting LOST... how many moving maps and backups can you count in that thing? I wonder how many separate subscriptions to Jepp data he has to maintain.

I'm a big techie, too, but I more recently fell in love with the simplicity of Pilawt's panel:

Pilawt.jpg
 
TangoWhiskey said:
Well, at least he's not worried about getting LOST... how many moving maps and backups can you count in that thing? I wonder how many separate subscriptions to Jepp data he has to maintain.

I'm a big techie, too, but I more recently fell in love with the simplicity of Pilawt's panel:

Pilawt.jpg
Click to expand...

Well then, you should REALLY like their standard panel! :D

panel_standard.jpg


Even better, this:

Cubpanel.jpg


(Okay, I admit, the Sport Cub "Deluxe VFR" panel is really well done. :yes:)
 
You young whippersnappers and your fancy pants electronic gewgaws!

Dagnabbit, if needle, ball, airspeed was good enough for Lindy, it's good enough for me!!!!!!
 
Now that is funny coming from Mr G1000 turbo 182:devil:

Or did you find the secret G1000 six pack and KX-170 mode?
 
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