Garmin G5 *will* drive other brand A/Ps

denverpilot said:
It's OSH week. Totally normal. :)

$16,000 *installed* with autopilot? That's incredibly low. And it's what the announcement says.

Fun times.
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Yeah, their press release probably is a bit optimistic or wasn't supposed to have the word "installed" in it.

This video, the Rep claims $20,000 installed.


That's a pretty big difference. I think they forgot to take "installed" out of their press release. They also make it clear in the video that is *without* a certified Nav source or backup instruments.
 
The original release by Dynon said "the equipment installed in the 172..." Could have been interpreted either way and likely unintentionally misleading. My initial gut feeling was they were referring to hardware costs only simply because install costs are going to vary quite a bit from place to place.
 
arkvet said:
The original release by Dynon said "the equipment installed in the 172..." Could have been interpreted either way and likely unintentionally misleading. My initial gut feeling was they were referring to hardware costs only simply because install costs are going to vary quite a bit from place to place.
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Not a fan of "intentionally misleading" when spending that much money.

They should "intentionally fix" their inaccurate statements.
 
denverpilot said:
Ping @bnt83 ... they changed the game again. (GRIN)... Thought you'd like to know since you did all that digging in the STC trying to figure out what they'd support... and they cheated and made a whole new interface box instead. :)
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I think the only difference in the GAD29 & GAD29B is software. Indeed exciting to see.
 
denverpilot said:
Not a fan of "intentionally misleading" when spending that much money.

They should "intentionally fix" their inaccurate statements.
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I said "UNintentionally". Saying "The equipment installed in the 172..." is much different than, "$16,000 *installed* with autopilot?", as you stated. Please point me to where Dynon uses that phrase. I may have missed it but if they typed it as you suggest it was "intentionally" misleading.
 
arkvet said:
I said "UNintentionally". Saying "The equipment installed in the 172..." is much different than, "$16,000 *installed* with autopilot?", as you stated. Please point me to where Dynon uses that phrase. I may have missed it but if they typed it as you suggest it was "intentionally" misleading.
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The game they're playing is they list off what's installed in the aircraft and then kinda pretend they were talking about the main unit all along when they get to the "installed price". The way they word it is purposefully vague.

And in my book, that's not the kind of company I want to do business with. It should clearly state the price of specific components -- I can figure out my installer's hourly rate on my own, thanks.

I love the "reasonably priced STC" garbage, too. So state the damn price. Or if you don't know yet, don't announce. You're not done baking the cake.
 
denverpilot said:
The game they're playing is they list off what's installed in the aircraft and then kinda pretend they were talking about the main unit all along when they get to the "installed price". The way they word it is purposefully vague.

And in my book, that's not the kind of company I want to do business with. It should clearly state the price of specific components -- I can figure out my installer's hourly rate on my own, thanks.

I love the "reasonably priced STC" garbage, too. So state the damn price. Or if you don't know yet, don't announce. You're not done baking the cake.
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I guess we can just agree to disagree. I didn't feel misled at all. Sounded to me like they were referring to hardware. This announcement is less than 24 hours old and I've read in several places where they state the STC for the initial 172 is to be $2,000.

The "game they're playing". LOL Garmin could have beaten them to this breakthrough if they had the incentive to do so. I know of several people that have point blank asked Garmin about when their G3X would be available for certified aircraft. The answer every time has been (paraphrasing) "Never". What incentive does Garmin have to put the G3X into certified aircraft??? ZERO. Why would they? They've already got a comparable glass panel for us rich certified guys. It's called the G500. Those are the games I don't care for. At the end of the day I like Garmin too. I have a G5 on the panel already.

In a few days/weeks/months we'll see if Garmin has been caught with their pants down. Sounds like you're looking pretty hard to find some criticism for Dynon's incredible breakthrough into the certified market.
 
He said it "could be installed in less than 20 hours" I'd kinda like to see that happen!!:rolleyes::rolleyes: Looks like a cool system!
 
arkvet said:
I guess we can just agree to disagree.

...

In a few days/weeks/months we'll see if Garmin has been caught with their pants down. Sounds like you're looking pretty hard to find some criticism for Dynon's incredible breakthrough into the certified market.
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Agree to disagree is the dumbest phrase ever uttered. We disagree. I don't have to agree to do it. Neither do you.

Can we agree to not agree to disagree? Or should we not agree to not agree to agree to disagree? :)

I said their PRESS RELEASE was crap. I didn't say the product was.

So yes. A criticism of Dynon's announcement style and content. You kinda want your EXACT message reviewed and rehearsed for your largest product announcement of any particular year.

And if you're going to put dollar amounts in it, just put the product price in.

Can you tell what exactly is included in either the $16,000 or $20,000 numbers? I can't.
 
I have to say when I finished watching that video I wasn't quite sure what the price was and what all is included or didn't include from what they were showing.
 
denverpilot said:
Agree to disagree is the dumbest phrase ever uttered. We disagree. I don't have to agree to do it. Neither do you.
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Can we agree to disagree that the phrase "Agree to disagree is the dumbest phrase ever uttered."?
 
I think the dumbest phrase ever is to believe a 2 page press release on a highly complex piece of avionics.
 
arkvet said:
Same with my Century 41. My excitement dwindled when I realized the G5 could send pitch and roll (AI) to the autopilot.
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same here.. Century 2000 AP..need to keep the primary AI :(
 
Well via some real time discussion with Exp guys who know Dynon, they're saying the HDX and all the goodies (A/P, Transponder, all of it OTHER than an approved IFR location source...) is the $16,000 price tag.

What really isn't obvious and Dynon did a really bad job of pointing this out, is that without the goodies added on, the HDX beats the dual G5 price tag and is a far more capable device.

Fascinating year this year at OSH for avionics.

And the Dynon announcement is REALLY bad for Aspen. It'll do (once they have the STCs) all the stuff the Aspen will do. For half the price.

Amazing. Still ridiculously high total dollars but what a year.
 
I'm guessing Mooney will be far down on the list, like the DFC90, it will be vapor ware. Nice thing about big G they have broader support.
 
WannFly said:
same here.. Century 2000 AP..need to keep the primary AI :(
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Chin up there buddy! With the Skyview HDX you can toss the whole 6 pack and a bunch of other gauges! Maybe even yank that ole Century 2000 and replace with it's integrated AP.

IMHO the biggest concern should be whether you can get into an avionics shop in the next few years.
 
arkvet said:
Chin up there buddy! With the Skyview HDX you can toss the whole 6 pack and a bunch of other gauges! Maybe even yank that ole Century 2000 and replace with it's integrated AP.

IMHO the biggest concern should be whether you can get into an avionics shop in the next few years.
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yeah its pretty exciting... and I just put a new 830 in, HDX already has that. I thought the avionics world was slow, but with all these STC stuff, its changing pretty rapidly
 
$16,000 with one HDX screen before installation at a specific installation center. Avweb video says installation time is about 40 hours for the C172 version. I wonder how long before Garmin offers the G3X as their offering on this space?
 
I have an STEC-30 with altitude hold and my shop is currently installing an ST-901 GPSS module for it. I also have a GTN750.

If I replace my steam-DG with a G5 HSI, can I remove the ST-901? Will it still work with my whole Autopilot including GPSS and altitude hold? I gather the GAD29B won't be available until September so there is no workable solution right now.

For the G5, Garmin seems to have 2: DG/HSI and HSI With GPS Nav Interface. What is the difference?

Just wish I could skip the 901 and go direct to the G5.... or is there a cheaper G5 that does not include GPSS where I couple use my ST-901?
 
PilotRocker said:
$16,000 with one HDX screen before installation at a specific installation center. Avweb video says installation time is about 40 hours for the C172 version. I wonder how long before Garmin offers the G3X as their offering on this space?
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I read somewhere FAA told Garmin no, but another FAA official sayid yes to Dynon, clearly a case of the left and right hand not working together. If true I'd bet that big G has the G3X STCed by S&F next year, I also bet someone's career in FAA just came to a screeching halt.
 
DesertNomad said:
I have an STEC-30 with altitude hold and my shop is currently installing an ST-901 GPSS module for it. I also have a GTN750.

If I replace my steam-DG with a G5 HSI, can I remove the ST-901? Will it still work with my whole Autopilot including GPSS and altitude hold? I gather the GAD29B won't be available until September so there is no workable solution right now.

For the G5, Garmin seems to have 2: DG/HSI and HSI With GPS Nav Interface. What is the difference?

Just wish I could skip the 901 and go direct to the G5.... or is there a cheaper G5 that does not include GPSS where I couple use my ST-901?
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The difference is software, same hardware.
If you wait, you can skip the 901.
If you install both you can lose the vacuum pump.
Or you can wait for the G3X.
Personally if I were you I would save my $ since you already installing the 901 and don't need the G5. But the moment your vacuum pump, AI or DG goes, just get the G5s, sell the 901. How much was the 901 anyway?
 
The 901 is about $2900 installed, but my shop doesn't have it yet.. though it has been ordered. Even with a G5 AI, I think I still need a backup AI.
 
DesertNomad said:
The 901 is about $2900 installed, but my shop doesn't have it yet.. though it has been ordered. Even with a G5 AI, I think I still need a backup AI.
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Not if you go with dual G5s, but with other hardware required, it would run around $6000 plus installation.
 
teejayevans said:
. . . I also bet someone's career in FAA just came to a screeching halt.
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I wouldn't make that bet. Federal employees aren't that easy to fire. But he might get a promotion (to somewhere).
 
DesertNomad said:
I have an STEC-30 with altitude hold and my shop is currently installing an ST-901 GPSS module for it. I also have a GTN750.

If I replace my steam-DG with a G5 HSI, can I remove the ST-901? Will it still work with my whole Autopilot including GPSS and altitude hold? I gather the GAD29B won't be available until September so there is no workable solution right now.

For the G5, Garmin seems to have 2: DG/HSI and HSI With GPS Nav Interface. What is the difference?

Just wish I could skip the 901 and go direct to the G5.... or is there a cheaper G5 that does not include GPSS where I couple use my ST-901?
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If you're not a member at Beechtalk.com and need questions answered about this, go to this thread and ask. A rep from Garmin is answering all questions about these new units pretty promptly. I don't think you can view the thread unless you are a member.

https://www.beechtalk.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=140833
 
denverpilot said:
Guess we know where Garmin thinks they'll be making the most money. LOL.
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They actually have to reps that are regulars over there. lol.

Seriously though, I think their membership is way over 20,000. You could make a living just selling to that bunch. They are serious about their planes (not that POA isn't). There's a lot of planes, pilots, and business over there.
 
BrianNC said:
They actually have to reps that are regulars over there. lol.

Seriously though, I think their membership is way over 20,000. You could make a living just selling to that bunch. They are serious about their planes (not that POA isn't). There's a lot of planes, pilots, and business over there.
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That forum and this, along with one professional pilot forum are the ones I visit most.
 
So I'm in the middle of transitioning to Germany and researching all this on a phone is a pain. Can you guys elaborate for me what the limitations are? If you care to personalize it, I have an Archer II with a century 21 AP driven by a vacuum AI. I already have 1 G5 installed and no panel mounted GPS.

Apologies for the laziness in advance.
 
NealRomeoGolf said:
So I'm in the middle of transitioning to Germany and researching all this on a phone is a pain. Can you guys elaborate for me what the limitations are? If you care to personalize it, I have an Archer II with a century 21 AP driven by a vacuum AI. I already have 1 G5 installed and no panel mounted GPS.

Apologies for the laziness in advance.
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Don't worry about it. The device to drive other manufacturers autopilots that has to go with your G5, isn't expected out until September. You'll have plenty of research time before then.
 
Clip4 said:
I like a lot of avionics, but trying to put a pack a bunch of information into a small display, not so much.
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Fair enough. Aspen is... Crowded. G5 just displays less information, the display is very clean and easy to read and the unit easy to use.

The SkyView HDX and G3X Touch are both based on much larger displays.

denverpilot said:
They also make it clear in the video that is *without* a certified Nav source or backup instruments.
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Without IFR-certified nav source, but that *does* include a D10A as the backup.

denverpilot said:
And in my book, that's not the kind of company I want to do business with. It should clearly state the price of specific components -- I can figure out my installer's hourly rate on my own, thanks.

I love the "reasonably priced STC" garbage, too. So state the damn price. Or if you don't know yet, don't announce. You're not done baking the cake.
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Jeez. They're not hiding any of this. The STC is $2,000 and the components will be priced the same as they are for the experimentals.


N747JB said:
He said it "could be installed in less than 20 hours" I'd kinda like to see that happen!!:rolleyes::rolleyes: Looks like a cool system!
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I spoke with a friend of mine who happens to be at one of their "dealers". He said it was one of the easiest installs they've ever done - First crack, having never done one before, was less than 40 hours for the entire mess (display, transponder, autopilot, backup AI, etc).

Dynon is used to having customers who have never installed any avionics in anything, ever - So they're used to making it very easy. Once the shops have done a couple of them, I don't think 20 hours is out of the question at all.

teejayevans said:
I'm guessing Mooney will be far down on the list, like the DFC90, it will be vapor ware. Nice thing about big G they have broader support.
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Speaking with the same friend - The plane they already have it installed on at that shop is a Mooney M20M (Bravo). I bet we're gonna be pretty close to the top. :)

denverpilot said:
Guess we know where Garmin thinks they'll be making the most money. LOL.
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Trek Lawler is on several of the type clubs' forums, not just Beechtalk. He does a great job answering questions, and his explanations are clear and concise. I spoke with him at Oshkosh, he knows his stuff. Garmin is lucky to have him.
 
NordicDave said:
Aspen is arrogantly walking past the grave yard. If you're at Osh this year, just walk up and ask them about the G5 and how will they respond. At Sun N Fun, Aspen was cocky & arrogant to point of appearing unhinged. Aspen has a dated product. The resolution of the display is course, as compared to new products. Just look how chunky and uneven the diagonal lines circles appear.

It takes the same amount of time to install a basic Aspen Pro (single display) as a full G500, approximately 20 hours of shop time.

I'd like to see Aspen compete and win, but they are operating in a bubble with terrible denial of current market situation.
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But the one interesting little bit I got from an executive at one of the largest Garmin dealers on the west coast is that the new Garmin autopilots will only interface with the G5, and not the G500/G600 glass panels.

Looks to me the half-life of the G500/600 just went down considerably.

If it really can interface with my Century III, that has just removed the last reason not to install a G5.
 
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flyingcheesehead said:
Jeez. They're not hiding any of this. The STC is $2,000 and the components will be priced the same as they are for the experimentals.
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It wasn't out when I looked.

GRG55 said:
But the one interesting little bit I got from an executive at one of the largest Garmin dealers on the west coast is that the new Garmin autopilots will only interface with the G5, and not the G500/G600 glass panels.

Looks to me the half-life of the G500/600 just went down considerably.

If it really can interface with my Century III, that has just removed the last reason not to install a G5.
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Ooh. That's a "big deal".
 
denverpilot said:
Ooh. That's a "big deal".
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Yes, it is.
Breaks Garmin's much touted integrated "everything works with everything else" approach to the panel. Especially when they appear to be orphaning their showcase piece of glass panel retrofit.
Good thing you didn't pay to put a G500 in that 182 you fly...you might be stuck with that crappy Cessna autopilot you hate so much. ;)
 
I'm sure when the phrase "will drive other manufacturers autopilots" is finally defined, there will be both happy and dissapointed customers. To me there are a lot of variables here that have yet to be nailed down.

That being said, I'm extreemly interested in the G5s and GFC500 for a 182 that already has a GTN.
 
bnt83 said:
I'm sure when the phrase "will drive other manufacturers autopilots" is finally defined, there will be both happy and dissapointed customers. To me there are a lot of variables here that have yet to be nailed down.

That being said, I'm extreemly interested in the G5s and GFC500 for a 182 that already has a GTN.
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You know more about this stuff than I ever will, but it seems that while everyone else is trying to put one or two large(ish) pieces of glass in front of the pilot, Garmin is moving away from its flagship G500/600 product and taking a multifunction and more modular approach with the G5.

The cost of a G500 retrofit & install is so high most of us with older airframes won't even contemplate it. But if the plane is one of the many already equipped with a GNS or GTN navigator, like your 182, the G5 and replacement autopilot starts to look interesting, especially for anyone regularly flying IFR.
 
GRG55 said:
But the one interesting little bit I got from an executive at one of the largest Garmin dealers on the west coast is that the new Garmin autopilots will only interface with the G5, and not the G500/G600 glass panels.

Looks to me the half-life of the G500/600 just went down considerably.

If it really can interface with my Century III, that has just removed the last reason not to install a G5.
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Pretty sure the more expensive GFC600 will work with G500/G600. IF you can afford GX00, you can afford the more expensive AP.
It's us cheapskates that will be stuck with G5/GFC500 combo until G3X comes out.
 
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