Garmin 650 pricing

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JohnE

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John
My GPS150 has finally failed (not supported by garmin anymore either). I'm looking to upgrade and am surprised at the used pricing of the 430's. My installation would be for VFR only. Are there any stores that discount Garmin units? If so, can you give me an idea of lowest price to purchase one. Feel free to PM me also. $10K seems really high for what I see as a newer version of the 430.

thanks.

John
 
The only reason I could see putting one of those in for a VFR only machine would be to tie it into the autopilot (if you have one)

Otherwise, no point at all in spending that kind of money. If you want something panel mounted, save $8000 and get one of these portable GPS units mounted in your panel. I have flown a lot with the Aera 510 and it was excellent. Easy to use, good wx display.

http://www.sportys.com/PilotShop/category/773

http://www.mypilotstore.com/mypilotstore/sep/7070
 
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Agree unless you are flying IFR the portable GPS and ipad with FF is a far more economical option.
 
What plane is it?

Not much need for an IFR panel mount unit in a strictly VFR plane. Much more utility at a much lower cost with portable stuff.

While the Aera series can provide a good compact GPS with ads-b capability, I am not happy with the screen or user interface. I find the screen difficult to read during the day and the user interface leaves much to be desired. I put an Aera 560 in our RV-9A along with a gdl-39; nice capabilities in a small package but poor screen and user interface. If only the 396/496 series could display ads-b WX, that would be my choice. The 696 can display ads-b WX and would be a good choice if there is panel space.

Do you use a tablet? Are you the only pilot? Maybe mount your tablet?
 
Forgot to add that I am looking to do instrument training in the aircraft. The airframe is not certified to fly in ifr weather. I agree though that an ipad would do the job, but the examiners would probably frown on that. I was looking at used 430's in the past and saw some in the sub-$4500 range.
 
JohnE said:
Forgot to add that I am looking to do instrument training in the aircraft. The airframe is not certified to fly in ifr weather. I agree though that an ipad would do the job, but the examiners would probably frown on that. I was looking at used 430's in the past and saw some in the sub-$4500 range.
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That changes things.

You want at least a 430w. The waas ones will not be in the sub-4500 range. The non-waas ones will not allow you to fly the newer approaches.
 
JohnE said:
Forgot to add that I am looking to do instrument training in the aircraft. The airframe is not certified to fly in ifr weather. I agree though that an ipad would do the job, but the examiners would probably frown on that. I was looking at used 430's in the past and saw some in the sub-$4500 range.
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Does the airplane just need a pitot-static check? Or is it unable to fly IFR at all due to the type.

If the airplane can never be certified for IFR flying there is still no reason to put a 430w in there. For the cost savings you could pay for a wet rental for the entire rating.

If you want to knock out some hood work with a safety pilot, don't need a GPS for that either.
 
JohnE said:
Forgot to add that I am looking to do instrument training in the aircraft. The airframe is not certified to fly in ifr weather. I agree though that an ipad would do the job, but the examiners would probably frown on that. I was looking at used 430's in the past and saw some in the sub-$4500 range.
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I think a 430 and installation will cost you $7000, $9000 for WAAS. GPS approaches are so common today, especially at small GA airports, I consider it a must have
 
Weren't the 430 units around $10k installed before the 650/750 series came out? Seems their pricing is exactly to your expectations.
 
I'm a CFI and would be using it for training and I could offset some of the cost as its a business expense. The aircraft is a DA20 so the airframe is not certified. Given that, the installation is also a lot easier and cheaper. I think some Garmin dealers do discount off the advertised price which is quite high. This is the price I am looking for. I would like to think one could be had for around $7K.

I looked at used gear, but the prices seem really high given the age of the units, really not that far off from new pricing. Plus, the non-waas 430's are getting old and I wonder about parts, service, etc.
 
JohnE said:
My GPS150 has finally failed (not supported by garmin anymore either). I'm looking to upgrade and am surprised at the used pricing of the 430's. My installation would be for VFR only. Are there any stores that discount Garmin units? If so, can you give me an idea of lowest price to purchase one. Feel free to PM me also. $10K seems really high for what I see as a newer version of the 430.

thanks.

John
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If all you want is the GPS part (no radios) the straight 400W is available. The 650 while similar in function has no comparison in operation to the 430. If you never need IFR capabilities, you need none of it and can do better with a 796 and GLD-39. And get a combo 796 and G-300 sized VFR SVT PFD
 
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JohnE said:
I'm a CFI and would be using it for training and I could offset some of the cost as its a business expense. The aircraft is a DA20 so the airframe is not certified. Given that, the installation is also a lot easier and cheaper. I think some Garmin dealers do discount off the advertised price which is quite high. This is the price I am looking for. I would like to think one could be had for around $7K.

I looked at used gear, but the prices seem really high given the age of the units, really not that far off from new pricing. Plus, the non-waas 430's are getting old and I wonder about parts, service, etc.
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You ain't getting a fresh GNS430 installed for 7k, most of the units sell for over 7k, so that would be a free install.

The used gear isn't comming down much because it does everything the new gear does, non WAAS 430s can be easily repaired, or just upgraded to 430Ws and garmin ain't short on parts.

I have a 530/430 combo and have zero plans on "upgrading" to touch screens.

Also if you have a GNS/GTN installed, having a panel mount handheld is kinda silly, spend the money on a MX20, which actually can be had for cheap, and install that on top of your 430.

Whenever I see a guy with a panel mount on top of his 430, a ipad mount on his yoke, which almost blocks his panel :rofl: , I just think 1 he ain't a working pilot. 2 I wonder if he gets HBO on any of those things.
 
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James331 said:
You ain't getting a fresh GNS430 installed for 7k, most of the units sell for over 7k, so that would be a free install.

The used gear isn't comming down much because it does everything the new gear does, non WAAS 430s can be easily repaired, or just upgraded to 430Ws and garmin ain't short on parts.

I have a 530/430 combo and have zero plans on "upgrading" to touch screens.
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Are you considering adding the Bluetooth link and "upgrading" to adding touch screen (iPad) capability and the GTN interface to your current radios?
 
Henning said:
Are you considering adding the Bluetooth link and "upgrading" to adding touch screen (iPad) capability and the GTN interface to your current radios?
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So far, no. I've not had a need yet, even flying into the NYC area for work with a GNS stack, it just hasn't been a issue.

I have my ipad/notepad on my lap, I just put in a airway and it'll give me two waypoints, just isn't that much of a hassle for me.

If the Bluetooth worked with foreflight or fltplan and I could get it installed for under 400 bucks OTD, yeah why not.
 
Start sending out requests for quote for a used 430w and a new GTN650. There will be several that come back where the brand new 650 with a warranty is $500 more.

Even when installing it myself I can't see putting in an old 430w. The only new radio that fits that tray is an Avidyne. The used 430w/530w are too high IMHO.

I know which I'd buy. To me an old 430w is only worth about $4000 with tray and antenna but they go for a lot more than that.

 
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And.... They both depict the same thing and shoot the same approaches, just one has prettier colors and is a touch screen, which, though it will impress your pax and low time pilots, it ain't going to impress anyone in turbulence, or if you need to work it without looking at it.

And to me a brand new 172 G1000 bug smasher is worth about 20k :rolleyes2:


I totally missed that this was just for VFR, just delete the whole system buy a ipad with kneeboard case for the plane.

....or buy a new garmin 150 off eBay or barnstormers/ASO/TAP etc and just slide it in and be done with it.
 
JohnE said:
My GPS150 has finally failed (not supported by garmin anymore either). I'm looking to upgrade and am surprised at the used pricing of the 430's. My installation would be for VFR only. Are there any stores that discount Garmin units? If so, can you give me an idea of lowest price to purchase one. Feel free to PM me also. $10K seems really high for what I see as a newer version of the 430.

thanks.

John
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Why buy a used GPS for VFR only anyway?
 
James331 said:
And.... They both depict the same thing and shoot the same approaches, just one has prettier colors and is a touch screen, which, though it will impress your pax and low time pilots, it ain't going to impress anyone in turbulence, or if you need to work it without looking at it.
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For the price difference between a 430 and 650, I would go for the 650. It's not just prettier colors, and a touch screen. The user interface on the 650 is soooo much more intuitive and user friendly. The 430 user interface is really clunky. Sure, you can learn it, and it can become second nature. No doubt about it. But the fact that you can learn to overcome the bad user interface doesn't make it a good user interface.

If it is just for VFR only, I agree-- go with an Ipad and a stratus. Much cheaper and gives you everything you need.
 
James331 said:
And.... They both depict the same thing and shoot the same approaches, just one has prettier colors and is a touch screen, which, though it will impress your pax and low time pilots, it ain't going to impress anyone in turbulence, or if you need to work it without looking at it.

And to me a brand new 172 G1000 bug smasher is worth about 20k :rolleyes2:


I totally missed that this was just for VFR, just delete the whole system buy a ipad with kneeboard case for the plane.

....or buy a new garmin 150 off eBay or barnstormers/ASO/TAP etc and just slide it in and be done with it.
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650&750 still has knobs and buttons. Last time I worked it it was bumpy as **** and I had no issues that made it take longer than a 530 working on the touch screen only.
 
Henning said:
650&750 still has knobs and buttons. Last time I worked it it was bumpy as **** and I had no issues that made it take longer than a 530 working on the touch screen only.
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Can you go direct to the nearest airport without having looking at the unit, ie just off feel?
 
James331 said:
Can you go direct to the nearest airport without having looking at the unit, ie just off feel?
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I've only flown with it 3 times now, so no, I'm not there with it, but that isn't to say it's not possible, I just haven't even considered to try for that yet. I will say this, I learned the 430 the button push method, and I was light years further along in using the 750 in 1 hr than I could use a 430 after 10, and with 10 or so with the 750 I would be comfortable taking it into IMC. I was 40 hrs into using the 430 before I would.
 
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rbridges said:
Are install costs similar for a 430 and 650? If so, I'd probably opt for the 650
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If you do just a 650, probably about the same. However if you do a GTN stack and G500/600, you save some of the harness making time/cost using network cables.
 
Henning said:
Are you considering adding the Bluetooth link and "upgrading" to adding touch screen (iPad) capability and the GTN interface to your current radios?
Click to expand...

Just looked it up, thousand bucks! And it only work with their crappy app.

That's upgrading to full HIDs, or used Atlee seats, half of the cost of BAS seatbelts, or 183gal of 100LL/14hrs of flight time.

It's not worth that to me, I'll pass.
 
James331 said:
Just looked it up, thousand bucks! And it only work with their crappy app.

That's upgrading to full HIDs, or used Atlee seats, half of the cost of BAS seatbelts, or 183gal of 100LL/14hrs of flight time.

It's not worth that to me, I'll pass.
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Ok, but the app on an iPad is far from crappy. It also works it with a 796.
 
Meh, even if it worked with foreflight and fltplan (what I use every day) it's not worth half that for me.

I'd get far more use out of the go juice that money would buy me, or a set of killer lights for the plane, etc.
 
James331 said:
Meh, even if it worked with foreflight and fltplan (what I use every day) it's not worth half that for me.

I'd get far more use out of the go juice that money would buy me, or a set of killer lights for the plane, etc.
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Whatever, doesn't much matter, just wondering.
 
Henning said:
Whatever, doesn't much matter, just wondering.
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Hey I appreciate the info, I probably wouldn't have really looked into it if you didn't made that post. I just wish it wasn't as expensive and proprietary.
 
James331 said:
Hey I appreciate the info, I probably wouldn't have really looked into it if you didn't made that post. I just wish it wasn't as expensive and proprietary.
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Proprietary has positive and negative issues. That is one thing Garmin has done from the beginning. In the early units, only the DGPS-53 would talk to a PC in NMEA-0183 strings. The second or third generation consumer grade units would output in NMEA, but not prior. I don't really care which of the software packs I use anymore now that they are all full featured. Garmin Pilot now has SVT and all the other features I look for, so I'm fine using it if it provides me something the others don't.

It doesn't affect you, but for people with the 650/750 series radio, the common interface is nice, you are always in the same architecture.
 
Henning said:
Proprietary has positive and negative issues. That is one thing Garmin has done from the beginning. In the early units, only the DGPS-53 would talk to a PC in NMEA-0183 strings. The second or third generation consumer grade units would output in NMEA, but not prior. I don't really care which of the software packs I use anymore now that they are all full featured. Garmin Pilot now has SVT and all the other features I look for, so I'm fine using it if it provides me something the others don't.

It doesn't affect you, but for people with the 650/750 series radio, the common interface is nice, you are always in the same architecture.
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:confused:

dang Henning, how do you know all this stuff?
 
Nexair is selling used GNS 430 non-waas for $5200, including antenna etc.

Their inventory is big. I know this because Nexair recently removed two of them from my plane to install a pair of 650s.

I understand that the used price of a 430 has been falling fairly rapidly, so if you really want a 430 and just wait a little, you might get it cheaper.
 
dell30rb said:
The only reason I could see putting one of those in for a VFR only machine would be to tie it into the autopilot (if you have one)
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Agreed, but a 496/696/796/Aera will drive an autopilot great as long as you're not doing approaches or need GPSS. My TruTrak AP is driven by a 496 and works like a champ, holds altitude within 10ft and heading within 2°.

Of course, now you might want a 430W for the certified position source to use with an ADS-B out setup.
 
NoHeat said:
Nexair is selling used GNS 430 non-waas for $5200, including antenna etc.

Their inventory is big. I know this because Nexair recently removed two of them from my plane to install a pair of 650s.

I understand that the used price of a 430 has been falling fairly rapidly, so if you really want a 430 and just wait a little, you might get it cheaper.
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That post right there should indicate a good bit the quality difference between the GNS and GTN series boxes.

There is no sense getting a Non WAAS unit installed at this point, and $5200 is an outrageous price for a non W 430 IMO.
 
Henning said:
That post right there should indicate a good bit the quality difference between the GNS and GTN series boxes.



There is no sense getting a Non WAAS unit installed at this point, and $5200 is an outrageous price for a non W 430 IMO.
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I agree. The WAAS upgrade (if it can be done, oldest model cannot be) is in the$3,500 range. That would put a used, upgraded WAAS 430 price at $8,700 when you can buy a new 650 for $9,700:

https://www.gulfcoastavionics.com/products/2394-gtn-650.aspx
 
Henning said:
That post right there should indicate a good bit the quality difference between the GNS and GTN series boxes.

There is no sense getting a Non WAAS unit installed at this point, and $5200 is an outrageous price for a non W 430 IMO.
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I totally agree with your comment. I did some casual browsing on eBay and barnstormers and saw a lot of prices in this range. 430's have been around for a long time. The 430 (if priced right) would be ideal for my use case and would be easy to install, but $5K?!

I'm going to contact some dealers and see what kind of discount they will give on the 650.
 
JohnE said:
I totally agree with your comment. I did some casual browsing on eBay and barnstormers and saw a lot of prices in this range. 430's have been around for a long time. The 430 (if priced right) would be ideal for my use case and would be easy to install, but $5K?!

I'm going to contact some dealers and see what kind of discount they will give on the 650.
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Lolz

It's a approach certified GPS, it's a unit that many pros fly behind, and it still the industry standard, it ain't your old 150 or a KLN. Even a non WAAS 430 is a crap ton of GPS for 5k.

Also a WAAS upgrade for any non WAAS 430/530 is just over 3k btw.


For you case, you can get a garmin 150, which isn't really used for anything or desirable, for VERY little and just slide it in.
 
Well, a non WAAS box means you still will need to be getting a WAAS ADS-B input in the near future. Non WAAS boxes block vertical guidance from display. Without having the GPS equivalent of an ILS and relegating it to the GPS equivalent of a VOR approach degrades the practical value of this box, especially to the 'occasional IFR' pilot, immensely. You as a pro daily IFR pilot may be perfectly comfortable with non precision style approaches, no worries, but that doesn't transfer to most GA pilots.

If you want full functionality and approaches on base budget, look at the Garmin GPS 400W.
 
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